Question: For something to exist it has to be created, right?

I mean come on...who created the big bang...who created everything before the big bang even happened if it did in fact happen? we thought up nothingness would nothingness exist if we didn't? Does the world still go on as we knew it after we die or was it preprogrammed just to cater for us? Your thoughts.

To believe what Science says about the creation of the Universe, one must believe that "Something came from nothing". To put it simple, our creation whether through Scientific or Religious belief has the same concept, it's all about faith and believing hard enough in a thought or idea. As humans, I don't think we will ever know or understand how "it" all started.

reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence

Why is it that religious folk never extend this logic their precious God(s)? And no, things don't necessarily need creators. Particles and anti-particles spark into existence all the time, only to annihilate one another a brief moment later. I'm thinking with big bang something similar to this failed to happen properly, and thus Big Bang..

reply to post by rhinoceros


Exactly... who created the creator if everything needs to be created intelligently. The creator would arguably be the most complex entity to ever exist, yet there is no valid argument for how it was created.

reply to post by FidelityMusic


Faith is man made the bible was man made, it did have input from god but who is god and why I'd he going to all this trouble just to shove some good old...man made? Faith? Down our throats. I believe in a higher power but I don't believe in any insidious religions that were crafted on earth, why do people call him "god", why won't any higher powers introduce themselves to me, also what the hell is with speaking in tongues I swear you can conjure up any sort of words if you put your mind to it...take Mary poppins for example and here supercala...I give up...

For something to exist it has to be created, right?.......Wrong.

Human imagination and superstition have one place in the universe....our own minds.

All you need is a self contradictory negative.
In the beginning there was NOT
Then there was not Not.

This really depends on your standpoint. You have religion which says that everything is created, and then science which everything has evolved. I dont particularly believe in either of them, both have their flaws. But 'nothing' cannot exist, there always has to be 'something', because nothing is impossible. Perfection is also impossible.

God in my mind, is information. A seed contains all the information it needs to grow into a tree. This information didn't come from nothing, as nothing cannot possibly exist, so something had to exist in order to create the information in the seed to grow the tree. But the tree also evolves as well.

Just my thoughts on it

There is a new book out that I think is a really good read on the subject. It makes a really good argument for the something from nothing concept.

There is a stark difference in the conceptual nothing which philosophers and religious minded have compared to a different type of nothingness. You can say a room is empty but if you look closer you can say there is air, dust etc. so it is not completely empty.

In a sense there is no such thing as absolute nothing. I've often said if a god can exist before how come the universe or the energy that created it can't. Then I get a run around of answers that god is outside time and space and since the universe is time and space it can't have or something like that. Yet in the same breath they'll preach that thousands of years is but a day to god. So which is it? Is god outside of time or not? If god exists outside of time then time is irrelevant and no comparison can be made.

To say that complexity is a sign of a creator is a bad argument in the religious sense because god is a complex being as well yet god managed to come into existence.

reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence


Depends on what you mean by 'created', in the sense that complexity increases with time, sure, but then again, there was a pre-existing mathematical symmetry.

It's not particularly 'something from nothing', rather it's 'something we can quantify from something we can't quantify'.

I am a Christian, by the way, but I interpret 'create' differently than the fundamentalist interpretation.

reply to post by rhinoceros


Who made the particles? And who made the person who made that person who made the particles for one can not exist without the other and what purposes did they all serve? Are we all serving someone for their amusement, sounds a bit like "the hunger games" to me.

reply to post by AzureSky

But 'nothing' cannot exist, there always has to be 'something', because nothing is impossible.

And why is it impossible for nothing to exist? So you believe all this stuff in our Universe was simply here all along? I would say it's harder to believe that anything can exist at all. I'm amazed that this Universe actually exists rather than just nothing. Although I still believe, that overall, nothing really exists.

The Theory of NoThing

reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence


Surely you realize that it is a completely anthropocentric notion that a thing needs to be 'created' by somebody?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by AzureSky

 

But 'nothing' cannot exist, there always has to be 'something', because nothing is impossible.

And why is it impossible for nothing to exist? So you believe all this stuff in our Universe was simply here all along? I would say it's harder to believe that anything can exist at all. I'm amazed that this Universe actually exists rather than just nothing. Although I still believe, that overall, nothing really exists.

The Theory of NoThing

Because 'nothing' implies that it is perfect. And perfection cannot exist, nothing can be absolutely 100% perfect. Nothing could have been before the big bang, but it wasn't just nothing. We wouldn't be here if it was just nothing. Therefore there had to be something, right? =P

Im just regurgitating things i've read over the last year and formulated in my head.

We were made to question? So why is it that people who always question something outside someone's religious views always gets shot down? Why should we follow the words of a book the words of some pedophile behind a pulpit or whatever the...you call it. More bad has come of religion than good, some people just can't see it because they just go about their god fearing lives turning a blind eye to women in africa having their breasts hacked off by religious fanatics just because they don't share the same views. So much for religious freedom...

reply to post by AzureSky

Nothing could have been before the big bang, but it wasn't just nothing. We wouldn't be here if it was just nothing. Therefore there had to be something, right?

What if there always has been and still is nothing? Read the theory I posted in my last thread. But lets not get too far off topic here.

Before all physical manifestations, was the conceptual possibility for them to arise.
prior to all enumeration there were operators

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
Who made the particles?

It looks to me like nobody is creating these self-cancelling particles and anti-particles. For very brief periods of time, they pop into existence from nothing.

There is no need to limit our thinking in terms of how our limited human minds interpret time. What we witness in time and physics is a small piece, and we have limited understanding of it because we are like fish in a stream, moving with the flow of water. It is entirely possible that things self create, and time moves in infinite directions and transpires in ways we might describe as both simultanious and not-at-all. Things can be made and unmade at the same time. God can both exist, and yet an omnipotent God would also not exist, due to the nature of infinite possibilities. Humans need to admit that our conceptual ability isn't as good as we believe it to be. Perhaps terms like "direction" itself only applies in some instances. Creation implies a point in time that is more important than other points in time. We can relate to the concept because we expirience birth and death. Not everything in the universe expiriences these things. In fact, most of the observable universe either expiriences what we would consider to be innate activity, or processes of matter transformation.

Milk production at a dairy farm was low, so the farmer wrote to the local university, asking for help from academia. A multidisciplinary team of professors was assembled, headed by a theoretical physicist, and two weeks of intensive on-site investigation took place. The scholars then returned to the university, notebooks crammed with data, where the task of writing the report was left to the team leader. Shortly thereafter the physicist returned to the farm, saying to the farmer "I have the solution, but it only works in the case of spherical cows in a vacuum."