Question: For something to exist it has to be created, right?

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by edmc^2
All things considered - logic and common sense tells me that design requires a designer.

You on the other hand say that all things came to be by random accidental chance event.

Which one make sense?

tc.

We've been over this tons of times.
You posted the code which clearly looks like random generated numbers (it's actually pairs of atoms) rather than a computer code or any other type of "code" created by human intelligence. Find me another programmed code that looks like that. You need prove it is a design first, before saying that design requires designer. Do this scientifically and you'll have a chance. You are doing just what Cataclysm was doing and basing your entire argument on your personal interpretation of DNA code, not objective evidence. Then you limit it further by claiming its either Jehova or nothing. That's false. We don't know the answer. Claiming it's nothing is just as silly as claiming it's god. Why can't you admit we don't know the answer for sure, but your opinion is that it was created, instead of falsely claiming that it's proven.

edit on 2-4-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

You can't prove that DNA is a design

.

Simple question to you:

According to many evolution websites (not my interpretation or my claim) they state that the "DNA IS the Blueprint For Life".

Do you agree with that statement?

If so what is Blueprint For Life mean?

tx.

Originally posted by edmc^2
Simple question to you:

According to many evolution websites (not my interpretation or my claim) they state that the "DNA IS the Blueprint For Life".

Do you agree with that statement?

If so what is Blueprint For Life mean?

"Blueprint" is just a term that is used to dumb it down for general audiences. It is not an actual blue print for life. it is a metaphor. If you've seen an actual blue print for anything, you'll notice it is NOTHING like DNA. It is genetic information that is stored that replicates itself. Stop ignoring my points and instead flipping the question and changing the subject. You are using pure philosophy, not science, and not using scientific terminology, just throwing random words around and making guesses based on them.

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by edmc^2
Simple question to you:

According to many evolution websites (not my interpretation or my claim) they state that the "DNA IS the Blueprint For Life".

Do you agree with that statement?

If so what is Blueprint For Life mean?

"Blueprint" is just a term that is used to dumb it down for general audiences. It is not an actual blue print for life. it is a metaphor. If you've seen an actual blue print for anything, you'll notice it is NOTHING like DNA. It is genetic information that is stored that replicates itself. Stop ignoring my points and instead flipping the question and changing the subject. You are using pure philosophy, not science, and not using scientific terminology, just throwing random words around and making guesses based on them.

Shesssh, why the nagging?

All I'm asking is - what is Blueprint For Life mean?

nag nag nag then "It is genetic information that is stored that replicates itself." then nag some more.

Thank you. So the Blueprint For Life means (to quote you):

It is genetic information that is stored that replicates itself.

It is "genetic information".

Which means that it IS an INSTRUCTION code to produce something useful, otherwise it's a useless information.

Agree?

Energy is not created or destroyed.

Creation is a function of time. Time is a measurement. A measurement requires at least 2 points, and even then the measurement is arbitrary until you have a 3rd point which is relative to the initial distance.

A 0 point is still something. It's a line with length 0. 1 is a line with length 1.

First there's timelessness (1), then there's time (2). Then there's the question of where it came from... but the question couldn't exist until we had a mind (which measures). It's kind of a trick question because the question itself couldn't exist without time.

Originally posted by edmc^2

It is genetic information that is stored that replicates itself.

It is "genetic information".

Which means that it IS an INSTRUCTION code to produce something useful, otherwise it's a useless information.

Agree?

It's comical, the conclusions you draw from my posts. DNA is pairs of atoms. It is not a written code or instruction language. This is just how we measure it. Useful / useless is opinion and bares nothing on this.

reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence

That's a dang interesting question/perspective.

Just like numerology forsakes the number zero.

Originally posted by edmc^2
Which means that it IS an INSTRUCTION code to produce something useful, otherwise it's a useless information.

It's not that simple. If you take everything away from a cell, and then reinsert just DNA, nothing is going to happen. On the other hand, if you just remove the DNA, and then reinsert it (this was done recently with artificially created DNA molecule), life continues. DNA contains all the necessary information, but it needs abundance of proteins and various other factors in order to keep the replication cycle happening (instructions for these is included in the molecule though)..

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by edmc^2

It is genetic information that is stored that replicates itself.

It is "genetic information".

Which means that it IS an INSTRUCTION code to produce something useful, otherwise it's a useless information.

Agree?

It's comical, the conclusions you draw from my posts. DNA is pairs of atoms. It is not a written code or instruction language. This is just how we measure it. Useful / useless is opinion and bares nothing on this.

OK - let's use your line of thought.

DNA is pairs of atoms

That's not news - in fact if you get down to the molecular level - all elements in the universe is made of atoms.

But what makes these atoms different from each other is ORGANIZATION. How they are intelligently arranged. In other words the INFORMATION present in them is what separates them from each other.

It's what separates Life from non-life. That is, the code present in dead and decaying tissue is totally different from a live tissue.

A decaying flesh is useless - since there's no more useful information in it (for maintaining life) but a living tissue has so much useful information.

But you say:

Useful / useless is opinion and bares nothing on this.

Of course it does. For how can you like I said use something that is useless?

In other words - how can you build a house using a blueprint with useless information?

But the fact is the codes stored in the DNA molecules is the "Blueprint For Life".

How else could the Genome Project exist if the DNA codes are useless?

How could big pharmas exist or stay in business if the codes or to use your description "pair of atoms" have no USEFUL information in them?

How could micro-biologists work in their fields if the INFORMATION - the code in the DNA molecules "pair of atoms" are useless?

I think you're grabbing straws or just running out of logical and coherent answers.

simple q to you - can you create life from useless information?

tc.

reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence

I mean come on...who created the big bang...who created everything before the big bang even happened if it did in fact happen?

I don't think "Who" is relevant to the equation...
Why? Because we are ego-driven, we foolishly assume "God" has a personality.

Personalities are nothing more than a composite of individual traits that we perceive as unique, when in fact we all share the same qualities, just in varying amounts.

To me, existence is like one big ocean wave all happening at once, with no beginning or end.
(Like personalities, the passage of time is a false perception also.)

We all feel like individual drops but, collectively, we are simply "The Wave"

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
I mean come on...who created the big bang...who created everything before the big bang even happened if it did in fact happen? we thought up nothingness would nothingness exist if we didn't? Does the world still go on as we knew it after we die or was it preprogrammed just to cater for us? Your thoughts.

edit on 31-3-2012 by Sounds_of_Silence because: (no reason given)

we cannot perceive more than 3dimentions in our universe i maby there were just dimentions (its neer impossible for the human brain to comprehend anything more than 3D)

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
I mean come on...who created the big bang...who created everything before the big bang even happened if it did in fact happen? we thought up nothingness would nothingness exist if we didn't? Does the world still go on as we knew it after we die or was it preprogrammed just to cater for us? Your thoughts.

edit on 31-3-2012 by Sounds_of_Silence because: (no reason given)

You are using the typical god of the gaps argument. Just because don't havet he answer to something doesn't mean you can fill that GAP IN KNOWLEDGE with magic (aka god).

Science doesn't say it started "from nothing". They say they don't know. At least they're honest about not knowing, while religious folk fill that gap in knowledge with magic (hundreds of varions of it too).

Well if this is to be true then..
Im a god..
My wife to...
We´ve created LIFE...

Who knows what happend or was before BigB...
But math and science CAN explain the actual
event...How, why or by "who"/what is and will
FOREVER be speculations..So WHY keep on
with these discussions..Unless we can travel
in time and see for our self....................beep

Hi Everyone would like to send out a big thank you for all who shared their views and respected mine, I do believe something does exist out there for us to exist, I don't think we will ever find out the real answer here on earth but I really don't think we should be segregating ourselves into religions that vilify one another, let's just accept that their is a higher power but live like law/moral abiding atheists until we get a 2nd coming if it is in fact coming...so we can then rewrite the history books for future generations and have better documentation so it doesn't seem so much like a farce.

TextTo say that complexity is a sign of a creator is a bad argument in the religious sense because god is a complex being as well yet god managed to come into existence.

reply to post by DetectiveT


DectiveT -

Reading your blog and noted that you have some really good points to consider. A lot of people say things without really thinking and I guess I'm as guilty as the next guy in doing that. As a young single guy, before I was drafted, I used to stop on my way home to visit an old man who had a dumpy ole book store. His name was Mr. Butters and he was a retired school teacher probably in his later seventies at this time. I was a book nut back then and my mind was always on the mystery of God. Used to sit and listen to the old man give me his rendition of exactly who God was.

Now this doesn't mean that the old man knew more than you know or that I know more than you know. You may know much more than me or the old man but I have learned that everybody has a different idea of just what God is and what we are. Why, I would bet that you set ten guys around a table and you would get ten different ideas of who God is. In fact I would bet that some of those ten guys would get mad at someone else for not seeing It their way.

From what I have read in my near on ninety years on this earth is that I never get too old to learn. and some times I learn from youngsters. In fact if we would sit a spell and listen to the little children, sometimes you can get a whole new idea on the truth. In fact the little children just might have the answers that escape a mind like mine. Do you remember all those questions you asked your pop when you were knee high to a grasshopper? Some of those questions just might be the answers today.

So where am I going with all of this? Well, my take on life is this. No one has all of the answers and if they think they do then they are very foolish. We aren't in the same ball park as God and never will be. I learned that God is my pop and I sit back and talk to Him now and then just like I did with my dad and He talks back to me in many ways that most folks just don't understand. Instead of listening to other folks so much, just wind down and talk to the one who really does know. You will be surprised when you get your answers cause the answers come in lots of different ways. You try this for a spell and just wait for the answer.

Originally posted by Miccey
Well if this is to be true then..
Im a god..
My wife to...
We´ve created LIFE...

Who knows what happend or was before BigB...
But math and science CAN explain the actual
event...How, why or by "who"/what is and will
FOREVER be speculations..So WHY keep on
with these discussions..Unless we can travel
in time and see for our self....................beep

You, know that's pretty interesting actually. A sperm is not alive. An egg is not alive. Non - life becomes life at conception. So much for that idea

Originally posted by Miccey
Well if this is to be true then..
Im a god..
My wife to...
We´ve created LIFE...

Who knows what happend or was before BigB...
But math and science CAN explain the actual
event...How, why or by "who"/what is and will
FOREVER be speculations..So WHY keep on
with these discussions..Unless we can travel
in time and see for our self....................beep

You, know that's pretty interesting actually. A sperm is not alive. An egg is not alive. Non - life becomes life at conception. So much for that idea

reply to post by Barcs


Then you might say my pinetree outside isnt "alive" right..
Imho, my sperms are living, they are driven by a MOTIVE.
And also is the egg!

Originally posted by edmc^2

If the universe and everything in it were NOT created by Jehovah God then the alternative is nothing - that is nothing created everything.

The who created the creator? And who created the creator of the creator? And who created the creator of the creator of the creator? Ad infinitum.

Answer me this.

Originally posted by john_bmth
The who created the creator? And who created the creator of the creator? And who created the creator of the creator of the creator? Ad infinitum.

No one creates that which always existed. If something doesn't have an end it also doesn't have a beginning. This is why I reject the idea of god creating our immortal souls. It's a paradox.

Originally posted by Miccey
reply to post by Barcs

 

Then you might say my pinetree outside isnt "alive" right..
Imho, my sperms are living, they are driven by a MOTIVE.
And also is the egg!

Nope, because a pinetree is clearly a biological organism that lives off the earth. A sperm cannot survive the world by itself, its impossible for a sperm to ever grow or even live for more than a few days without interference. It is not a life form. Would you consider an unsprouted seed to be "alive"?