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Debunkers: Irrational, Uninformed and Ignorant By Stanton Friedman

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posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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If I didn't believe in alien interaction here on Earth then I wouldn't be visiting this forum just to correct others.
So why do debunkers? It's because they're secretly the biggest believers of us all and are in need of answers to settle their troubled minds.

Cheers,
Fantom




posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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I like debunkers. I feel they contribute greatly to UFOlogy. They do a service by weeding out the crap from the truly enticing cases.

Debunkers aren't the devil. Matter of fact, as believers, it is your job to try and debunk the given evidence. You do no service to the field by browsing youtubes and passing along 90% of the crap that's supposedly "proof".

UFOlogy must be looked at with a scientific mind. Many things must be ruled out and all of the garbage and misinformation must be weeded out of the field so that it can have some real credibility. That's the problem with the current state of the field. That so many have a personal agenda toward skeptics that it hurts the field. When you have that, you're giving the field a label. You're trying to solve mysteries without a scientific approach. I don;t think even Mr. Friedman can disagree with that.

All the Wilcox and the Alex Jones and the rest of the money hungry herd need to move along so that true research can take place a lot easier.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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My eyes opened to all this when I realized that people who say they see these things were actually being honest. They really believed in what they saw. The reason my eyes were closed before is because I only ever saw this stuff on TV or in books. I didn't talk to the people in-person.

But even after you do, even after opening your eyes, you should still remain skeptical of these claims. The difference is that your interest levels are higher than before. Look at me: I'm still a skeptic. I just think that not every case is explained. There's genuinely some strange things out there. Honest.

I think most of the good stuff, if not all, is secret military work. It's common knowledge that the vast majority of cases are misidentifications of conventional man-made things or natural phenomena.

Stanton Friedman, a good man or a con man, he's still been around. He's old now. Chances are he won't be with us too much longer. I'd treasure every moment that a man of his ilk is still talking.

Here he is from 2011:
We'll settle this ET issue eventually. We're discovering new planets in other systems in quicker time. Sooner or later, we'll be able to detect more details about them. We're roaming around in our own system finding new things. We're in the initial stages of a much larger earth orbit industry and, perhaps, a lunar base or base(s). Our propulsion systems are advancing (slowly?). We're finding new cheaper ways (not necessarily faster) to propel spacecraft. We will continue to advance optics and computers and telescopes to the point where we will be able to view much much deeper into space. We will get samples of the other planets, in time. Sooner or later we're going to know. This issue won't die.

The only thing that can stop this from happening is a earth cataclysm; a shattering of the world.
edit on 29-3-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Mark_Frost
Wow, you may as well ask for a cure for Cancer while you are at it.
[...]
Its not going to get handed to us on a silver platter no matter how much we stomp our feet on the ground screaming that we want it.

Why not? Why does it have to be so hard? If a decent explanation exists, there's no logical reason for it to be so hard to produce.

And there are plenty of good cures for cancer these days. So I've still got no good scientific explanations, and it's apparently harder to come up with than a cancer cure. No wonder everything gets debunked!



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by CommonSenseIsDead
...
Last time I stalked with Stand he refused to even discuss the folks that make us look like idiots, and wanted to blame the serious lack of legitimate scientific research into this subject by all major universities due to debunkers and not the fact that the dough eyed believers have made this into a laughable joke.
...


The phrase is actually "doe-eyed" (as in "doe a deer"), not "dough-eyed" as in Pillsbury dough boys eyes...



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by WingedBull
 





The thread you pulld the quote from was about Disclosure, not above UFO evidence


So what? That doen't mean you didn't mean the statement you made.



you are nothing but a liar.


How immature. You resort to name-calling simply because you have a weaker argument?



You are confused, aren't you?

You said I was misrepresenting Mr. Friedman's position; I was backing up my position, with evidence. The only person who is doing any misrepresenting is you.


You said, "It's far easier to blame the skeptics than it is to prove your own claims."

I pointed out that Friedman DID provide evidence for his own claims AS WELL as debunking the skeptics. You made a claim, I disagreed with it and showed you why. Where is the misrepresentation?




As we don't even know for sure that extraterrestrials exist, you cannot say with any certainty that is the "the most likely" explanation for an unexplained event.


It is egocentric to believe we are the only ones in the universe, and highly illogical.




I expect an apology and a retraction


Why? You're the one who started calling me a liar.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by Mark_Frost

I agree most evidence presented can and very well is contested but besides Radar hits + Visual sightings...I mean what else is there?



Well you do have the Ancient Alien supporters who believed "aliens" helped build the pyramids........and they didn't hide themselves away........... so they can show up in plain sight if you believe the ancient alien hypothesis.....so no need for "Radar hits"..........they'd just turn up on the White House lawn and start building their next stone monument.

edit on 29-3-2012 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth

There is evidence that the government has your proof (bodies and a saucer) and has been covering it up for 65 years.


Where is this "evidence" you speak of........do tell!



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by MasonicFantom
If I didn't believe in alien interaction here on Earth then I wouldn't be visiting this forum just to correct others.
So why do debunkers? It's because they're secretly the biggest believers of us all and are in need of answers to settle their troubled minds.

Cheers,
Fantom


Nahh that's flawed logic if ever I heard it!

Sceptics on certain subjects get involved with debate.......precisely to "debate".........frankly ATS and all forums would be terribly boring if they all turned into thread appreciation societies.
It's good to debate..........hell a good well argued and well reasoned debate can change peoples views either way.
Keep the debates going don't stifle them.......just because your viewpoint isn't everyone else's.




edit on 29-3-2012 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by jonnywhite
My eyes opened to all this when I realized that people who say they see these things were actually being honest. They really believed in what they saw.


Very similar to religion if you ask me........ people will believe in God but have no proof......just "faith" that the lights in the sky that they see belong to ETs.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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I welcome the debunkers, but I hate it when they are complete jerks about it. Like um, those what whine 'you guys are soooo stupid! there is noooo empirical evidence!' they always feel so smart using the word 'empirical' too, they never fail to use that word.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Logical one
 


Basically it's eye-witness testimony from individuals who have claimed to have seen alien bodies and/or a saucer.

The Roswell incident is a good place to start.

Not quite as dramatic evidence of a cover up can be seen in this fantastic thread: UFO Coverup of UFOs - Proven?



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth


Basically it's eye-witness testimony from individuals who have claimed to have seen alien bodies and/or a saucer.

The Roswell incident is a good place to start.


Hmm, not exactly strong evidence.

The Roswell incident is indeed the most famous case that started it all........but Roswell isn't a great candidate to put forward the case of Earth visiting ETs., ........... the emerging evidence strongly suggests secret military testing and a military cover up points to the events of Roswell not ET.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Logical one
 


Possible, but what do you say about the first and second hand testimony involving little grey aliens?

Are those people simply lying?



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by lampsalot
I welcome the debunkers, but I hate it when they are complete jerks about it. Like um, those what whine 'you guys are soooo stupid! there is noooo empirical evidence!' they always feel so smart using the word 'empirical' too, they never fail to use that word.



That works both ways though ........... sceptics have often been labelled as jerks (I know I've experienced it!)......simply because they do not believe that a light in the sky was ET.......but was something else more mundane.
I welcome ET flying UFO believers but I hate it when sceptics are called "jerks" simply because they don't believe it was ET that was seen.

edit on 29-3-2012 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth

Possible, but what do you say about the first and second hand testimony involving little grey aliens?

Are those people simply lying?


The testimony of those "alien" accounts as I recall were few in number.........and some of those like Glenn Dennis have upon detailed investigation contained too many suspect inconsistencies to be reliable.

It is also notable that witnesses only came forward some 30 years after the event.........why would they do that......... If they have been threatened by the military to stay silent......then why put their family members at risk?

Roswell is a great story.......but that's all it is with no real hard evidence of the presence ET.

Still just like Loch Ness, Roswell would lose a fair bit of tourist income if the residents didn't keep the myth alive!

edit on 30-3-2012 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by Logical one
 


Here's a link to the testimony about the aliens: en.wikipedia.org...-hand_accounts_of_aliens
To see the alien accounts specifically, click on the "First hand accounts of aliens" button on the wikipedia menu bar.



It is also notable that witnesses only came forward some 30 years after the event.........why would they do that...


thats a good question, I really don't know. However, I'm not going to use it as grounds to dismiss the witnesses.




Roswell is a great story.......but that's all it is with no real hard evidence of the presence ET.


I agree with you, you're totally right. But, I think this could be a result of the government cover up. I would really suggest reading the thread I mentioned in my last post. It details some very suspicious stuff.
edit on 30-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: d



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
So what? That doen't mean you didn't mean the statement you made.


Of course I meant it. However, you lied about the meaning and context of it.


Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
How immature. You resort to name-calling simply because you have a weaker argument?


Not immature at all. It is the truth. You misrepresented my position, using an out of context quote to do so. That is a lie.

My position is not the weaker one. If your position were the stronger one, you would not feel the need to lie in order to defend it.


Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
You said, "It's far easier to blame the skeptics than it is to prove your own claims."

I pointed out that Friedman DID provide evidence for his own claims AS WELL as debunking the skeptics. You made a claim, I disagreed with it and showed you why. Where is the misrepresentation?


You used an out of context quote about a different matter, that being UFOs as a religion, and you claimed it was about something else. That is a misrepresentation, and thus a lie, and ironically, proving the point I was making in the post you took out of context.



Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
It is egocentric to believe we are the only ones in the universe, and highly illogical.


I never said we were the only ones in the universe. Again, you misrepresent my position, and further expose yourself as a liar.


Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Why? You're the one who started calling me a liar.


That's because you are a liar. You responded to my posts by misrepresenting my position, several times.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
I agree with you, you're totally right. But, I think this could be a result of the government cover up.


That is wonderful circular reasoning.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by Logical one

It is also notable that witnesses only came forward some 30 years after the event.........why would they do that.........


Money, fame, boredom. There are many possible reasons.


If they have been threatened by the military to stay silent......then why put their family members at risk?


Because they never were?


Roswell is a great story.......but that's all it is with no real hard evidence of the presence ET.


Agreed but one can argue that it has done more harm than good to UFOlogy.




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