A Lesson in Jumping to Conclusions (the Trayvon Martin shooting)

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

I went out yesterday to run errands in town and decided to make a mental note of how many people I saw wearing hoodies and their age ranges.

Stopped off at meals on wheels - noticed a handful of senior citizens wearing hoodies

Delivered some meals to my 6 clients - oops, again, saw one woman, in her 70's, you guessed it..... a hoodie.

Went to the grocery store - too many to count, but the age ranges were toddlers to seniors.... hoodies

Took my daughter to the park - spied 2 teens girls and their male friend wearing a hoodie......

Who else wore hoodies? Me, my daughter.... my husband. We've always worn hoodies.

Sometimes I like to dress up in a long black skirt and black shirt, doesn't make me a wiccan or a witch
And when my husband wears all black, doesn't make him Johnny Cash

Ah and our liquor store recently got robbed by a white 16 year old kid...... was he wearing a hoodie? NOPE. he was wearing a jean jacket and a ski mask.

As far as I'm concerned, the hoodie is not the fashion choice for criminals......

So, what was Zimmerman wearing that night? What's the fashion stigma for latinos gunning down teen boys?

I knew this stupid response was coming.

Not all people who wear hoodies rob stores.

Not all people who rob stores wear hoodies.

However, hoodies are quite popular among those who rob stores because of their ability to conceal physical features. They also seem to be quite a popular wardrobe item among actors on TV and in movies portraying bad guys. Pay attention to that sometime.

There is no question that hoodies are associated with bad guys. Everyone knows this. It's just a fact, and you can't deny it.

Just because hoodies are popular as you say, among criminals for their concealment, and, bad guys on tv are portrayed wearing hoodies, shouldn't automatically have made Trayvon, or anyone else for that matter an automatic suspect.

Everyone keeps addressing what Trayvon was wearing. What was Zimmerman wearing, and, I wonder if Zimmerman has ever worn hoodies.

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
Why should this be a race?

Its is race related because of what Zimmerman said when talking to the 911 dispatcher.

And previous calls about suspicious black males.

Zimmerman made it racist.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Zimmerman is responsible for creating and escalating a situation that resulted in a death.

Most likely true. But you can't charge him with 'stupidity'. You have to wait for the case to be put
together by the police. I'm sure they are being very careful to dot their 'i's and cross their 't's because
all the hype has gotten this national interest.

Most likely true? No it is 100% true.

Zimmerman took the law into his own hands and now someone is dead.

I can not predict how the courts will handle this case.

But FACT: Zimmerman is 100% responsible for Tayvon's death - - - no matter what happened after he chose to ignore the suggestions of the 911 dispatcher.

And what amazes me the most are the people saying that Zimmerman didn't have to follow those suggestions, that he had a right to pursue Trayvon. The thing is, if Zimmerman didn't want to follow their suggestions, why did he bother calling 911 in the first place?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by MrH191
My GOD, it is a sad incident, a kid died (whatever the circumstances surrounding it) but at the end of the day its just another death.

If it was your child.

It would not be just another death.

If it was my kid i wouldn't be copy-writing his name. But its not my kid, and he was not your kid either.

A kid died and thats sad, but some people are determined to blow this into a full scale race war. Black Panthers are itching for it and the MSM is playing to the tune. This is going to end in more deaths. And whatever chance of any justice being served flew out the window when everyone started the race issue.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
Why should this be a race?

Its is race related because of what Zimmerman said when talking to the 911 dispatcher.

And previous calls about suspicious black males.

Zimmerman made it racist.

I don't know what the other comments were but certainly discribing a black person by the color of his or her skin is just common sense. How would it sit with you if he said he was white and then shot him????

Originally posted by Starchildren
And what amazes me the most are the people saying that Zimmerman didn't have to follow those suggestions, that he had a right to pursue Trayvon. The thing is, if Zimmerman didn't want to follow their suggestions, why did he bother calling 911 in the first place?

Zimmerman did not have to follow the suggestions of the 911 dispatcher.

Not doing so made him 100% responsible for his actions and anything that transpired because of his actions.

A Vigilante type ego is probably what made him call 911. He wanted credit for catching an intruder.

He did catch someone in a previous incident - - which he got credit for - - - at least from the Home Owners.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
The "facts" that you are trying to dismiss as irrelevant actually serve to establish Martin's character.

Martin's character has no bearing in this case.

It sure as hell does. You would make one crappy lawyer.

Are you a lawyer?

How does Tayvon's character have anything to do with this case?

A lot, actually.

And - of course - if the courts allow information not related to this case - - like character - - Zimmerman's criminal history must also be admitted as evidence.

Exactly right.


Here is another question for you and all your TM fans and apologist friends:

Let's assume for a moment that you have a brain in your head.

You see a suspicious person walking in your 'hood, and you happen to have a gun. Do you approach that person and ask them what they are doing there? No you do not, because you know as a gun-carrying citizen, that is the least prudent course of action. You want to avoid confrontation, not instigate it. You understand that carrying a gun is a defensive measure, not an offensive opportunity.

Now....

You are walking in a neighborhood you aren't normally in. A guy with a gun approaches you and asks you what you are doing? Do you attack him and try to take the gun away from him? No you do not, because you aren't that stupid, right? You might get shot, or otherwise injured. You don't know what this guy is thinking. A smart person would answer him politely and clear up any misunderstanding about your presence there.

You want to blame Zimmerman for being stupid? I say there is plenty of stupid to go around.

Also, if you think character does NOT count - in ANY situation - you are why this country is in the crapper.

Originally posted by longjohnbritches

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
Why should this be a race?

Its is race related because of what Zimmerman said when talking to the 911 dispatcher.

And previous calls about suspicious black males.

Zimmerman made it racist.

I don't know what the other comments were but certainly discribing a black person by the color of his or her skin is just common sense. How would it sit with you if he said he was white and then shot him????

That is not all there is to it.

I believe it was the dispatcher who asked him if the man was black - white - Hispanic. Its the other comments Zimmerman made. Plus previous 911 calls about suspicious black males. And comments from neighbors about his obsession with black males (that I personally would put under hearsay) until proven.

reply to post by Annee

Zimmerman is responsible for creating and escalating a situation that resulted in a death

His actions might have been stupid and irresponsible but its not illegal to ask a stranger a question. TM could have told him to " mind your own business" and walked away.

I have a feeling TM probably started the physical fight after zimmerman asked him what he was doing.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Are you a lawyer?

You chastise me for not being a lawyer.

Yet do not answer my question: Are you a lawyer?

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Are you a lawyer?

You chastise me for not being a lawyer.

Yet do not answer my question: Are you a lawyer?

Stop with the idiotic trolling. Your method of arguing is juvenile.

Are you a juvenile?

I posed a question in my last response to you. Are you going to ignore it because it makes too much sense? How about you answer that question.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
You are walking in a neighborhood you aren't normally in. A guy with a gun approaches you and asks you what you are doing? Do you attack him and try to take the gun away from him? No you do not, because you aren't that stupid, right? You might get shot, or otherwise injured. You don't know what this guy is thinking. A smart person would answer him politely and clear up any misunderstanding about your presence there.

So, why is the gun drawn/exposed if Zimmerman isn't at fault?

Oh, that's right, we aren't talking about Zimmerman! This is a scenario that you just made up to make it appear like Martin was being a 'thug' by attacking a man with a drawn/exposed weapon.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Annee

 

Zimmerman is responsible for creating and escalating a situation that resulted in a death

His actions might have been stupid and irresponsible but its not illegal to ask a stranger a question. TM could have told him to " mind your own business" and walked away.

I have a feeling TM probably started the physical fight after zimmerman asked him what he was doing.

Zimmerman took the law into his own hands. He created and escalated a situation that resulted in a death.

He called 911 and ignored their suggestion.

Zimmerman created a situation that caused fear to a 17 year old kid - - - putting that kid in the position of defense and Stand Your Ground.

Really? TM could have just walked away. For all those saying this - - - have you ever been frightened for your life? Are you completely ignorant of how much adrenaline your body "kicks in" when you are frightened? And you expect a 17 year old boy to calmly walk away? Get Real!

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Are you a lawyer?

You chastise me for not being a lawyer.

Yet do not answer my question: Are you a lawyer?

Stop with the idiotic trolling. Your method of arguing is juvenile.

Are you a juvenile?

I posed a question in my last response to you. Are you going to ignore it because it makes too much sense? How about you answer that question.

Answer the damn question. Are you a lawyer?

The same question you asked of me.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
You are walking in a neighborhood you aren't normally in. A guy with a gun approaches you and asks you what you are doing? Do you attack him and try to take the gun away from him? No you do not, because you aren't that stupid, right? You might get shot, or otherwise injured. You don't know what this guy is thinking. A smart person would answer him politely and clear up any misunderstanding about your presence there.

So, why is the gun drawn/exposed if Zimmerman isn't at fault?

Oh, that's right, we aren't talking about Zimmerman! This is a scenario that you just made up to make it appear like Martin was being a 'thug' by attacking a man with a drawn/exposed weapon.

Yeah, yeah, I get it. It's all about Zimmerman, right? Ignore Martin's actions altogether because we aren't trying to demonize HIM, are we? He's an innocent little boy of a victim - his momma said so.

Also, check your reading comprehension - I never said the gun was drawn. Read it again.

Like I said - plenty of stupid to go around.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Are you a lawyer?

You chastise me for not being a lawyer.

Yet do not answer my question: Are you a lawyer?

Stop with the idiotic trolling. Your method of arguing is juvenile.

Are you a juvenile?

I posed a question in my last response to you. Are you going to ignore it because it makes too much sense? How about you answer that question.

Answer the damn question. Are you a lawyer?

The same question you asked of me.

edit on 28-3-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

You aren't a lawyer, so what makes you the expert on how character relates to one's behavior?

Tell you what - go commit a crime and find yourself at the defendant's table with your lawyer, and tell me what the first thing the prosecutor does to you.

I'll give you a hint: He attacks your character.

Next.

Here is another question for you and all your TM fans and apologist friends:

Let's assume for a moment that you have a brain in your head

Let's assume for a moment, that you can engage in a discussion without insulting other posters here.

reply to post by Annee


hi, well we don't know what happened so you claiming TM was scared is speculation on your part.

I dont think he was scared i think testoterone and ego overtook them both and the exchange of words turned into them exchanging punches.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Annee

 

Zimmerman is responsible for creating and escalating a situation that resulted in a death

His actions might have been stupid and irresponsible but its not illegal to ask a stranger a question. TM could have told him to " mind your own business" and walked away.

I have a feeling TM probably started the physical fight after zimmerman asked him what he was doing.

Zimmerman took the law into his own hands. He created and escalated a situation that resulted in a death.

He called 911 and ignored their suggestion.

Zimmerman created a situation that caused fear to a 17 year old kid - - - putting that kid in the position of defense and Stand Your Ground.

Really? TM could have just walked away. For all those saying this - - - have you ever been frightened for your life? Are you completely ignorant of how much adrenaline your body "kicks in" when you are frightened? And you expect a 17 year old boy to calmly walk away? Get Real!

I think there are a lot of people assuming that Trayvon was a thug, so he wasn't afraid. When it comes down to it, anyone being chased by a guy with a gun is going to be afraid, and we cannot necessarily know how someone is going to react to that situation. Run, or fight. I do wish he would have ran!

Originally posted by Starchildren

Here is another question for you and all your TM fans and apologist friends:

Let's assume for a moment that you have a brain in your head

Let's assume for a moment, that you can engage in a discussion without insulting other posters here.

When someone does not have the ability to understand simple logic, it is only fitting that you qualify your statements in a manner suiting the situation.