A Lesson in Jumping to Conclusions (the Trayvon Martin shooting)

THE JUMP TO CONCLUSION - The Trayvon Martin shooting by Zimmerman was a race based murder. ATS thread in which many here backed this up. People across the country jumped to the conclusion .. including Obama, other politicians, and newspapers.

THE LESSON - Don't jump to conclusions, don't be politically correct when dealing with 'facts', and don't assume anything that the MSM says (or spins) is true. WAIT for all the facts to come out.

Wait for the facts ... something that a lot of people didn't do ... cases in point ...

White House Defends Obama Trayvon Martin Remarks

The President last week called for an investigation into "every aspect" of the case concerning the Feb. 26 killing of 17-year-old Martin in Sanford, Fla., by a 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, George Zimmerman, whose father is white and mother is Hispanic.

"I can only imagine what these parents are going through," the president told reporters in the White House Rose Garden. "When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids, and I think every parent in American should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this." He also said, "You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon."

Churches call for Justice for Trayvon Martin
Black Churches Call for Justice for Tryvon Martin
Republicans Join Call for Justice for Tryvon Martin

The main Republican presidential contenders each decried the shooting of Martin, a 17-year-old African-American, allegedly by a neighborhood watch member, and joined with President Obama and other Democrats in supporting a Department of Justice investigation into the incident.

"What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity," Republican presidential frontrunner Mitt Romney said in a statement.

And of course Obama jumps on this (much like he jumped on the white cop in Boston and the college prof. ... which lead to the 'beer summit') and he has his Department of (in)Justice investigate the shooting. The Hill - DOJ to investigate Trayvon Martin shooting

Now more details are emerging ... details that could easily clear the shooter of any of the 'murder because of racism' charges that are being tossed around. But by now a good chunk of America has already made up it's mind based on errors and assumptions of racism. The shooter doesn't have a prayer for justice for himself. He's probably a victim twice over .. once by Trayvon Martin and he'll be a victim again of the 'justice' system who desperately wants to make an example of him ... even though more and more it's looking like he's innocent. That is .. if he lives long enough. Eric Holders buddies at the New Black Panther Party have called for the death of George Zimmerman. Wanted Dead or Alive Poster Issued for George Zimmerman by New Black Panther Party . So will Eric Holder be FINALLY going after the real racist murderers in this country .. the New Black Panther Party? (betchya not!)

Trayvon Martin Shooting Details Emerge

"With a single punch," the Orlando Sentinel, citing police sources, reported Monday, "Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer ... climbed on top of [him] and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered."

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police," the paper said, "and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say." Zimmerman's attorney, Craig Sonner, says that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and is not a racist as some have portrayed him.

Zimmerman Friend says George Virtually Lost His Life Too

Additional ATS threads on this -
Trayvon Martin according to friends taunted Columbian friend
Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun
Trayvon Martin Shooter Told Cops Teenager Went For His Gun
What the MSM isn't telling you
The Real Trayvon Martin(pics) what the MSM doesent want you to see

Amen to this brother. I knew from day 1 we should not just assume to know what happened. Oh well, the country needs to learn some lessons.

And what's Martin's account? Oh, wait, he can't tell his side of the story because he's dead. This entire affair has become a media circus, and the Police Department is doing everything it can to cover up the fact that it dropped the ball. It is not a question of race, it is a question of the use of deadly force when it was not necessary.

Originally posted by DJW001
It is not a question of race, it is a question of the use of deadly force when it was not necessary.

It's been made into a question of race by the race baiters and those who jumped to conclusions.
Look at all the pro-Martin stories ... his race is nearly always made a factor.
Even the first threads here at ATS featured his race and assumed his death was racially motivated.

The question of deadly force and if it was necessary has become a side issue.
Everyone wants to 'make an example' of Zimmerman being a racist murderer.

The chance for justice in this case .. for ANYONE ... is pretty damn low.

reply to post by FlyersFan

The question of deadly force and if it was necessary has become a side issue.

I totally agree which is why this is going to be my first and only comment on this issue on these boards.

If I just got punched and had my cage rattled and had a gun and saw the guy who just punched me trying to get my gun,I am going to assume its either me or him.
It might be overboard to kill the guy but when you get your head rattled,maybe he just reacted.

I know if it was a me or him situation....hes going to end up dead if I can help it and race would have NOTHING to do with it.

Hmm..yeah..nice..

However, bottom-line is that a "neighbourhood-watch" found it neccesary to follow a guy because he wore a hoodie, and was black.

Dispatch warned him NOT to pursue. Mr Neighbourhood-watch ignored it, and America is -yet again- sitting on a powder-kegg.

There's a reason Police always discourages vigilantism. As a neighbourghood watch with papers (as was apparently the case) Mr Neighbourhood-watch should have remembered his lessons. He didn't, and went to play the hero.

It's pretty simple: Dispatch says "No Following" they'll call the local Patrol Cars and a true cop comes to have a look. That's the way it ought to work.
Yet.. suddenly it's the kid's fault he got shot? What would You do when followed by some freaky fat bloke? You'd first run, and then, when not getting away, fight like a Lion.

I have to admit though that I am somewhat biased, being ex military police

reply to post by DrumsRfun

I totally agree which is why this is going to be my first and only comment on this issue on these boards.

If I just got punched and had my cage rattled and had a gun and saw the guy who just punched me trying to get my gun,I am going to assume its either me or him.
It might be overboard to kill the guy but when you get your head rattled,maybe he just reacted.

I know if it was a me or him situation....hes going to end up dead if I can help it.

I don't suppose it would ever occur to you that you might be safer without the gun in the first place?

Zimmerman allegedly did the exact opposite of what he was told to do by the police, he went looking to make trouble IMO, if he doesn't get a fair trial most of that fact is down to him doing the exact opposite of what was expected of him as a neighbourhood watcher, numpty. Lets see how long a white kid walking through the projects would last

reply to post by DJW001


Stick to the topic...this isn't about guns and gun control or whatever you are trying to make it.
This is why I won't bother with these threads...nice.


I am out.

reply to post by diakrite

and was black

Not true, on the tape he told the dispatcher he was not sure of the color of his skin,

See how this meme will never die, people will stick with the first story, it is kinda like being accused of rape and then being found innocent, they never get back their reputation,

also,

People want to hate,

Good OP..

The black panthers might have a bounty
out on him but if he is with a few family
and friends, we know he is a damn good shot
they are trained, and I think they can handle
there own to any morons trying to kill them..

Your so right about jumping to conclusions,
over half this site had zimmerman tried
and convicted. It has become a hang whitey/hispanic zimmerman
a lynch mob modern day... Sickens me, someone has to stand up
for justice and we are out here.

Originally posted by FFS4000
Zimmerman allegedly did the exact opposite of what he was told to do by the police, he went looking to make trouble IMO, if he doesn't get a fair trial most of that fact is down to him doing the exact opposite of what was expected of him as a neighbourhood watcher, numpty. Lets see how long a white kid walking through the projects would last

Also not true, he was walking back to his car when he was jumped, he was doing what he was told.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman told police about.

Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened Feb. 26. But that night, and in later meetings, he described and re-enacted for police what he says took place.

In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

articles.orlandosentinel.com...

Now by the time we get to page 10 of this topic, we will have repeated ourselves dozens of times, Like pops has , because people don't read the post, and believe what suits them.
Notice, "corroborated by witnesses"

Originally posted by DJW001
I don't suppose it would ever occur to you that you might be safer without the gun in the first place?

I don't suppose it would ever occur to you that taking protection away from law abiding citizens leaves only the perps with the weapons .. and they don't use them for just self protection ya' know.

Originally posted by diakrite
bottom-line is that a "neighbourhood-watch" found it neccesary to follow a guy because he wore a hoodie, and was black.

bottom-line is that a 'neighbourhood-watch' found it necessary to watch the neighborhood because there had been lots of breakins. You are JUMPING TO THE CONCLUSION that this happened because Zimmerman was a racist/bigot of some sort and that his 'watching' the guy was due to skin color and not other factors. BTW .. Martin was found to have a whole lotta jewlery on him that wasn't his. Just FYI.

Dispatch warned him NOT to pursue.

Did he pursue or was he attacked? Or both? Like I said .. the FACTS are not all in.

reply to post by FlyersFan


99% of the conclusion jumping to public will learn Nothing from this.....

Until they Understand that the main stream media is Not Much different than the tabloids....The More sensational the better,and the more attention the story gets.

Shame on the media and the foolish/gullible sheeple.

** You've made a great point and I agree,..But people will always fall for media B.S.

Originally posted by diakrite
Hmm..yeah..nice..

However, bottom-line is that a "neighbourhood-watch" found it neccesary to follow a guy because he wore a hoodie, and was black.

Dispatch warned him NOT to pursue. Mr Neighbourhood-watch ignored it, and America is -yet again- sitting on a powder-kegg.

There's a reason Police always discourages vigilantism. As a neighbourghood watch with papers (as was apparently the case) Mr Neighbourhood-watch should have remembered his lessons. He didn't, and went to play the hero.

It's pretty simple: Dispatch says "No Following" they'll call the local Patrol Cars and a true cop comes to have a look. That's the way it ought to work.
Yet.. suddenly it's the kid's fault he got shot? What would You do when followed by some freaky fat bloke? You'd first run, and then, when not getting away, fight like a Lion.

I have to admit though that I am somewhat biased, being ex military police

edit on 3/27/2012 by diakrite because: typos, hope I got them all

911 said "You don't have to do that", when Zimmerman said he was going to follow. He was under no obligation to follow this. Pretty dumb in my opinion.

But, your characterization of Zimmerman as a "freaky fat bloke' only shows your emotional investment and bigotry into this to the point you won't consider all the evidence.

This 6 foot plus "kid", who isn't the same sweet, innocent looking child that was plastered all over the news when this story broke, had quite a few pounds on him. And this, "kid" is the one who confronted, punched and beat Zimmerman. You know, if I am allowed to carry a firearm, know how to use it and someone is beating my head into the pavement to either seriously injure or kill me and then they try to go for my gun, I'm not sure how much thinking I'm going to do. My reactions are going to be purely survival based and if I draw my weapon and kill him to preserve my life, then that's what I will do.

Not particularly interested in this case to be honest. Very sad from what i have read but the point is we do not know the facts. I have said it for years, including here on ATS, that the way crime is reported should be changed. If we are to have a fair and just system of punishment (justice system) we need impartial trials. Publicity these days surrounding crimes precludes the ability to have a fair trial.

The remedy? Ban reporting on crime until after prosecution (or only publish the bare details, ie robbery at store, 1 shot, man in custody). That way, the trial is fair, the evidence is found and used and afterwards they can go to town on the story.

Originally posted by diakrite
suddenly it's the kid's fault he got shot? What would You do when followed by some freaky fat bloke?

You continue the spin language that lead to the 'jumping to conclusions'. "kid' ... gives the impression of totally innocent child who didn't have stolen jewlery and a screw driver. "freaky fat bloke' ... you totally wipe out the fact that this was a neighborhood watch person doing their job AND that he was attacked by the 'kid'. Yet another example of jumping to conclusions.

Was the shooting necessary? WE DO NOT KNOW.
The accounts are that the neighborhood watch fella was attacked by Martin.
(Martin, who had stolen jewlery with him in a neighborhood that had a lot of break ins.)
Of course this is being ignored by the Black Panthers .. the DOJ .. and Obama.
It's being ignored by those who keep insisting that this was race based violence.

WE SHOULD NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.

Let's give it a rest folks. Not a single soul on here knows the facts in this case.

First people are saying it was race based, tapes confirmed he said *SNIP* Zimmerman followed, confronted and murdered Trayvon.

Next we are hearing it was NOT race based, the tapes were doctored. Zimmerman did not follow him and Trayvon beat him up.

We have heard Zimmerman was white, then he was Hispanic and also he was Jewish.

We have heard Trayvon was a wispy 140 pounder; then he was 6'3" and 200 pounds. He was a good student and then he was a pot smoker and trouble maker.

LOL. You see how the media has everyone guessing? They just love it. Pays their bills and makes great prime time.

Give it a rest. Relax and let the courts try to sort it out. We have a Floridian who now fears for his life and we also have a 17 year old in a body bag somewhere while his family mourns his absence every day.


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

May I post this here,

Former NAACP leader accuses Sharpton and Jackson of ‘exploiting’ Trayvon Martin
dailycaller.com...

Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”

“His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.

The conservative black pastor who was once the chapter president of the Garland, Texas NAACP called Jackson and Sharpton “race hustlers” and said they are “acting as though they are buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy.”

Jackson, for example, recently said Martin’s death shows how “blacks are under attack” and “targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business.” (SEE ALSO: Jesse Jackson says Trayvon Martin ‘murdered and martyred’)

George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, killed Martin, a 17-year-old black man who was unarmed at the time of his death, last month. Zimmerman has claimed to have shot Martin in self-defense and has not been charged with a crime.

But Bryant, who explores the topic of black-on-black crime in his new film “Runaway Slave,” said people like Jackson and Sharpton are being misleading to suggest there is an epidemic of “white men killing black young men.”

“The epidemic is truly black on black crime,” Bryant said. “The greatest danger to the lives of young black men are young black men.”

Bryant said he wishes civil rights leaders were protesting those problems.

And that is exactly what Sharpton and Jackson are, race hustlers, I wish men of reason like Bryant, would be embraced by the black community.

Originally posted by Jaellma
Not a single soul on here knows the facts in this case.

There ya' go.
And we don't know the facts because of the smedia pin and the assumptions being presented as 'fact'.
Like I said .. this is a lesson in jumping to conclusions.
It's also a lesson in listening to the spin and political correctness in the media.
AND it's a lesson on how politicians work ... just look at how quickly Obama, his Dept of (in)justice, and both republicans and democrats jumped on this all calling for 'justice for Martin' (forgetting justice for Zimmerman) even though the facts were not out and the media was spinning and spinning ....