A Lesson in Jumping to Conclusions (the Trayvon Martin shooting)

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Now more details are emerging ... details that could easily clear the shooter of any of the 'murder because of racism' charges that are being tossed around.

While many do make Zimmermans actions racially motivated, many of us are only really concerned about why Zimmerman was not initially charged and put into court to demonstrate he wasn't the instigator in this situation. Zimmerman did not have to account to his actions, he was let go and a proper investigation or court hearing was not carried out.

The shooter doesn't have a prayer for justice for himself.

No he doesn't, and I bet he wishes he could go back to before that event and actually listen to what the police operator advised. I'd bet he regrets his actions deeply given the result, although not enough to take actual responsibility as I understand.

New Black Panther Party have called for the death of George Zimmerman.

Yes, there are extremist groups taking advantage of the situation, it doesn't change the key facts here.

As for Zimmerman claiming he got attacked first and the witnesses? As far as I am aware, Trayvon was not breaking laws, he was minding his own business walking through, he had no weapons on him what so ever. Zimmerman, against the wise advice given to him by the police operator, made the choice to persue Trayvon based on suspicion and even when Trayvon ran, Zimmerman continued to persue him. Trayvon didn't have to answer to anybody for merely walking through the street, he doesn't have to hold himself accountable to anyone. Zimmerman instigated the situation by bothering him and questioning him, this is what I consider an instigation, a confrontation. This is what lead to the events where Trayvon was eventually shot and killed. Zimmerman wasn't merely defending himself, he brought the situation unnecessarily upon himself and upon Trayvon, and in the end he decided to use his weapon.

Zimmermans actions are a demonstration to the rest of the trigger happy folks that they will be held accountable for their actions, whether it be in a court of law, or in public. I'm glad his face got plastered all over the media, please learn from Zimmermans actions for your own sake. Thanks.

Funny thing about the Black Panther's poster; if a cracker put up such a poster it would be considered domestic terrorism, I can guarantee it, and somebody would be going to jail.

But back to the issue, I believe it's real simple; if there is a neighborhood watch and a certain individual has been involved in that neighborhood watch for any length of time, he learns who belongs there and who doesn't. Most of us who have lived in one place for any length of time can spot an "outsider" that isn't recognized or doesn't belong. Now, if I happened to be that outsider and one of the neighborhood watch folks stopped me, I'd be polite, explain to them that I was staying with somebody and simply cooperate. No harm, no foul. They would get to know me and recognize me. I would expect the neighborhood watch people in MY neighborhood to do the same thing. That's the whole purpose. If you see somebody that doesn't "fit" and you just look the other way, then what is the point in being out there keeping an eye on things?

I don't know the whole story; none of us do, but I have to believe that if Trayvon was polite and cordial, he'd still be alive. The truth is, manners and respect have become a rarity in our society. Nobody believes they are obligated to be polite. They all believe that they "don't have to take any *hit from anybody" and they act that way as well. We have become a nation of incivility. The general attitude is, "I didn't break any laws so I have the right to act like an *sshole", rather than, "this guy is just keeping an eye on things and that's a good thing".

I don't know what the solution is but I can tell you the MSM approach to it isn't helping matters any. If anything, they are propagating tensions and it appears to me to be intentional which in itself is almost criminal...

reply to post by avatard


Being followed is not grounds for attacking someone.

And Zimmerman is Cuban, not Mexican. The only people who turned this into a "white black thing" was the MSM led by CNN (who are now referring to Zimmerman as a White Hispanic) and all the blacks protesting that white people are being racist by not arresting Zimmerman among other things.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I don't think it was based on race. It was based on stupidity.

You and I think that, but MANY people jumped to the instant conclusion that it was a race based murder of an innocent lil' black kid by a fat doofy racist white guy. Facts in this case are being purposely clouded or left out or spun ... politicians are posturing ... calls for immediate trials and the death penalty abound ...

Considering the hype and the spin and the political involvement (when it doesn't belong here), I'm wondering if the truth will be able to come out at a trial and I'm wondering if Zimmerman will get a fair hearing. (assuming it goes to trial).

I should start an ATS pool on what will happen ... people can bet 'points' ...
My guess .. Zimmerman will get convicted on Involuntary manslaughter ... 3-5 years.
Something like that. Betchya that's how it goes down.
After all the press spin and all the public calls for his head and all the poltiicians involvement
there is no way that, even if he were to be innocent, they'd let him go. I highly doubt it ...

Divide and conquer.... The Main Stream Media dished it up and looks like everyone wants a portion.... I'm full thanks, I'll skip this one.

just goes to show you that 70+% of people are idiots, at least in Florida. Thats how many voted for Zimmermans arrest.

Also, ironic that this "Racial profile related incident" caused people who were trying to protest race to be the biggest racist bigots on the block.

Way to go racist losers who jumped to conclusion!

reply to post by DrumsRfun


lol you sound like a cop covering his trigger- happy buttocks

i was afraid!!!!!!!! so i shot him!!!!!

ever heard of pistol whipping?

don't put yourself in situations if you can't take the heat

reply to post by Southern Guardian

This is what lead to the events where Trayvon was eventually shot and killed. Zimmerman wasn't merely defending himself, he brought the situation unnecessarily upon himself and upon Trayvon, and in the end he decided to use his weapon.

Following him instigated the situation. Whoever hit first instigated the fatal decision. If Zimmerman shoved Martin as his girlfriend claims, then he attacked first and he'd be guilty of murder.. if he got punched first, he was defending himself. Following someone, even yelling at them or annoying them, is not grounds for being assaulted. Did it instigate the entire situation? Yes. Would it pertain to who hit who first question? No. There should be a law that states harassment (in this case Zimmerman was harassing Martin) that leads to a fatal outcome voids the use of self defense. But as the law states now, that cannot pertain to the incident.

reply to post by FlyersFan


oh brother, yet another pathetic thread trying to justify the murder of a kid
who's only mistake was wearing a hoodie in the rain:shk:

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
oh brother, yet another pathetic thread trying to justify the murder of a kid
who's only mistake was wearing a hoodie in the rain:shk:

You haven't read the thread .. have you? Nope. Didn't think so.
I did NOT say that Zimmerman was innocent or guilty.
I did NOT say that Trayvon Martin was innocent or guilty.
I said that lots of people are jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts.
The first 'facts' out made Zimmerman look very guilty.
The latest 'facts' out make Zimmerman look innocent (or stupid ... take your pick).
YOUR post is a perfect example of jumping to conclusions.
You dont' know what happened and yet your language is loaded ...

U.S becoming like South Africa.

One evil deed does not cancel out the other. The thousands of racists murders in S.A. I can't even call many of these murders, cause it is slaying of people.

As human nature we get the good and bad in all, so, i am not saying whites are innocent in all cases. But the media goes bonkers when a white man kills a black man.

Look at stats, South Africa is in the top when it comes to crime rates in the world. And, who does the world blame that on? I guess most will say us whites are to blame.

Fact is, no matter the race, one will stand by his race when needed. Only that blacks stand together where us whites are too scared to open our mouths.

This country has a strike at least once a month, be it in transportation, education, hospitals, taxi wars, the youth league, trade unions - whatever, there will be an excuse for marches and strikes.

I don't care for those who think i am racist, because i will treat no person different. I see a human, a soul. It is not about colour in my eyes. Yes, over the years since the new South Africa i have become prejudiced: If I see a man walking down the street with his hat on sideways, his pants halfway to his ankles, an over-sized athletic jersey and walking so “leaned back” he’s very nearly kicking the back of his head, I’m going to assume he’s a rough customer and check to be certain i have my gun ready. I would do that whether he were black, white, Asian or purple with pink polka-dots.

Our children will tend to form prejudices based upon easily identifiable characteristics. Without guidance to reinforce positive prejudice and discourage negative prejudice, such superficial prejudice will continue.

If only EVERYONE choose to be open to personal development, be responsible, be considerate, treat others the way you would want to be treated., life would be bliss. But, that ain't gonna happen.

Click here for more information.

articles.nydailynews.com...

As far as i know this got no MSM attention.. this poor white kid was lit on fire and told "You get what you deserve white boy". this is clearly a hate crime and had plenty of witnesses but you don't see any marches or riots or anyone standing up for this kid..

But when Treyvon Martin, a troublemaker, drug dealer, gets shot and killed out of SELF DEFENSE; everyone loses there minds and ignores all the facts. Zimmerman is an innocent man. All this will be cleared up soon enough and everyone will still call for 'justice' and that it was a 'hate crime'.

Originally posted by DJW001
And what's Martin's account? Oh, wait, he can't tell his side of the story because he's dead. This entire affair has become a media circus, and the Police Department is doing everything it can to cover up the fact that it dropped the ball. It is not a question of race, it is a question of the use of deadly force when it was not necessary.

I think I learned to NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS -- especially the people who say "DON'T JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS" and then merely quote the testimony of the ONLY GUY LEFT ALIVE.

The Media will of course hype things. People of racial prejudice will jump to conclusions -- this will ALWAYS HAPPEN.

The President, however, merely addressed the issue which had raised a lot of protests and asked for Reflection. That can't hurt anyone.

When people don't feel like they got justice -- then you get organizations like the Black Panthers.


>> Perhaps they police SHOULD HAVE investigated this. These anonymous "police sources" backing up Zimmerman's claims sound like POLICE backing up Zimmerman's claims.

After the 9/11 call -- all Zimmerman had to do was wait for the Police to arrive. He didn't. And his right of "self defense" was no longer valid.

>> However, Florida has this crazy "Stand Your Ground" law, which means a person is exempt from prosecution unless it can be PROVEN he was not defending himself or felt threatened.


>> >> I'm going to wait until better forensics and evidence comes forward to make an opinion about guilt or innocence. But form Zimmerman's OWN STORY -- it sounds like a guy who was looking for a conflict. IF some random dude is following me around in his car and gets out and pounces on me -- I think I'd be punching his lights out too.

Claiming that he was just minding his own business and the black kid punches him, ignores the fact that he just dialed 9/11 on a suspicion, and then drove his car and got out of the vehicle to get this "surprise attack."


>> >> I like to use logic before jumping to a THEORY. We don't have the facts yet.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


.."only mistake"...

Ever? Even in just this situation? The hoodie was his only mistake in this situation? How do you know what either of these dude's mistakes were or were not? This has not even gone to court yet. There is no consistent story of what happened that evening.

It sounds like you already have an emotional attachment to a story line which may or may not have any basis in reality.

nevermind

Where was Uncle O's outrage and BFF holders trip when the White kid was set afire ?Wasnt that horrible enough and clearly a hate crime?Oh,he was White and the burners black ...I see

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Following him instigated the situation. Whoever hit first instigated the fatal decision.

Yes of course, following him instigated the situation, chasing after him made the situation worse. It was evident that Trayvon did not wish to talk to Zimmerman, but Zimmerman kept on bothering him. It's not your right to harass somebody, it's not anybody's right. If somebody kept on following you, questioning you, confronting you, I'm fairely certain you'd act defensively as well, it is in human nature. If somebody in a bar is harrassing another guy for no legitimate reason and that guy was punched in the face, who's fault is it again?

Zimmerman knew exactly what he was doing, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that if he didn't have a loaded gun with him, he wouldn't have persued Trayvon unnecessarily. Now you can continue making excuses insisting that Zimmerman had every right to harass Trayvon, but in the end the courts will decide.

Following someone, even yelling at them or annoying them, is not grounds for being assaulted.

Oh yes it is, you have no right to harass somebody on the street, and people have a right to feel threatened if they are confronted or harassed by somebody they don't know. Zimmerman had no reason to bring about this situation, it's common sense that if you are going to go around stalking and annoying somebody there will be a reaction, he knew exactly what he was getting himself into.

Continue making excuses for Zimmerman, maybe next time you can follow his lead?

And of course,on the burning case there was no hated law to attack or any excuse to go after gun ownership...I see

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
If somebody in a bar is harrassing another guy for no legitimate reason and that guy was punched in the face, who's fault is it again?

The guy who punched, being verbally harassed (or even *gasp*... followed) is not an open permit for violence as far as the law is concerned.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Zimmerman knew exactly what he was doing, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that if he didn't have a loaded gun with him, he wouldn't have persued Trayvon unnecessarily. Now you can continue making excuses insisting that Zimmerman had every right to harass Trayvon, but in the end the courts will decide.

Now you're making up stories and stating things as if they we're facts when you don't even know, this is what this entire thread is about.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Following someone, even yelling at them or annoying them, is not grounds for being assaulted.

Oh yes it is

No, it's not. Next time someone annoys you, assault them and see what happens. This is why we have law, because geniuses like yourself walk around thinking they can assault anyone that annoys them.