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A Lesson in Jumping to Conclusions (the Trayvon Martin shooting)

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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This situation is being sold to you as one about RACE. It is more about an overzealous guard with dreams of being a hero cop pursuing a "suspect" after the police dispatcher told him NOT to pursue, to let the (real) police handle the situation.

*Hero* Zimmerman ignores that and creates a situation that needlessly resulted in a death. Zimmerman deserves to be tried and sentenced (will most likely be found guilty of manslaughter at the very least, if not a degree of murder).

The only way "race" might be involved is what prompted Zimmerman to so aggressively pursue the victim. Was it because he was black? Even is so, "race" is irrelevant because we are talking about the actions of an individual. The FACTS of the case are on that 9-1-1 recording. The KEY fact is Zimmerman ignoring police orders to NOT pursue. That was his decision. That led to murder.




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by GhostLancer
 


Ignoring the police while calling the deceased a racial epithet.

It is about race because George Zimmerman made it about race.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Furbs
 


No, the media made it about race. All those black protestors made it about race. Anyone who buys into this BS is WRONG.

Zimmerman made it about a murder. Anyone who thinks he shouldn't be arrested is WRONG.

Anyone who neglects to realize that the media needs to be held accountable for their actions in creating this situation is WRONG.

There, I'm done adding to this garbage topic. It makes me more misanthropic and angry by the minute thinking about all this.
edit on 27-3-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by USarmyFL

Originally posted by Verse

Originally posted by USarmyFL

Originally posted by Verse

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
The clarity is in the 911 recording for everyone to hear.

Zimmerman pursued Martin for flawed reasons and Martin wound up dead for having walked in Zimmerman's territory.

LE protected Zimmerman because many LEA's in this country have a few of these type of cold blooded killers on their force.

Everyday bad cops kill people for simply not respecting or listening to them quickly enough. It is the bully mentality of either listen to me and do what I say exactly when I say it or I'll kill you, punk (negro, white trash, or countless other more derogatory labels etc.)

LE saw themselves in Zimmerman, he was a common LEO in the making.

Here, piggy piggy, Sooee!
edit on 27-3-2012 by verylowfrequency because: Come to papa


Well said.

For some reason I get a kinda Observe N Report vibe from this Zimmerman guy (except the cops helped in Zimmerman's case but hated heavily on Seth Rogen). Here is a guy who's the Neighborhood watch CAPTAIN, has called over 40 times to 911 to report suspect activity in his neighborhood, this guy's a wannabe cop. Has had several issues with the laws in the past too. It's actually amazing that this dude got a license to carry. Just imagine Seth Rogen in his mall, you´ll get the same guy almost.
His parents seem to be well connected too (which is another opposite to Rogen's character)


As for my view on the topic...
To me it's sickening how many people are trying to protect him, I thought we were here to Deny Ignorance? The fact of the matter is that a 17 years old kid has lost his life. He's never coming back and isn't even allowed to rest in peace. People are finding old pictures of him , putting them up for the whole world to see and screaming thug in a weak attempt to justify a cold blooded murder..sick, sick, sick.


Flawed reasons? I guess you did not see that when he was suspended, he had over 10 pieces of womans jewlery and a large flat head screwdriver in his backpack.. You are the type who likes to avoid the facts and run on emotion, like a bleeding heart leftist liberal. We shall see in the end who is the ignorant one.


Z had a gut feeling and it turned out to be right, this little btch was a thug thief after all.

U
edit on 27-3-2012 by USarmyFL because: (no reason given)


So according to you ...if a person steals from you you should be allowed to kill them. Thank you!


See what I mean.... I never said that, I said his suspicions for following the punk in the first place was a good instinctive decision which turned out to be true. He was shot because he attacked Zimmerman, even his girlfriends cell record shows they lost each other. Wake up dudez.....


U


So you're not saying he stole and got killed because of it. You're saying he stole ONCE , in his lifetime that we know off and that is the reason why you're all right with him getting murdered?
Now...I stole things when I was 7, where does that leave me? Got to be nice to live in such a black and white world where bad guys remain bad guys and good people stay good forever, as if people can't change. Yeah buddy wake up back at yah.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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TREYVON is an example of what
happens when you try to ruff up
and bully someone that is armed.
Treyvon is no innocent kid, he is a grown
adult criminal one at that.. Picked his last fight
that night.
A LYNCH MOB is something America should be over!!!
They ARE trying to incite a race war the president himself
is injecting himself in this matter without knowing the facts.
AT FIRST the MSM made zimmerman out to be a black man
hunter when new information and evidence comes out,
it shows treyvon attacked zimmerman..
He has already been tried, zimmerman has been convicted guilty
already by the vermon in the media without a fair trial.
People jumped to conclusions without knowing the facts..
Do not buy into the MSM bias garbage
STOP THE HANG WHITEY RHETORIC

If anyone needs a justice for zimmerman avatar let me
know.
edit on 27-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem

This trial has zimmerman convicted by the vermon in the media.

edit on 27-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)


That is the thing though, there hasn't even been a trial yet. That's what people are asking for. If the police would've done their job properly at first this would not be an issue today imo.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by DJW001

He did not have a backpack full of jewelry on the night of the incident. That discovery was made at school. Martin claimed that the backpack belonged to a friend. Do you have any information to the contrary?


I've never met a truthful thief.....of course it's was the the mysterious "someone else's" backpack.

No matter how that is spun, doesn't look good. At the very least, he was comfortable being a fence, at worst........ That is, of course, if that story is accurate.


I will wait till ALL information does come out. I am postive there is more on both sides of this story that the general public has not been made aware of. Everybody is being strung up like puppets, getting ready for the show.

I think this site has the best motto around..... DENY IGNORANCE. There's far too much of it on both sides of this debate. Both sides have rushed to judgement, right at each other. That doesn't bode well. Angry people on both sides only breed more anger.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by USarmyFL


Z had a gut feeling and it turned out to be right, this little btch was a thug thief after all. Probably used the skittles excuse to go case the neighborhood.. When I was 17 why walk to the store? I always drove.

U
edit on 27-3-2012 by USarmyFL because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-3-2012 by USarmyFL because: (no reason given)


LOL So the 140 lb 17 y/o who whipped the azz of a 220-50 lbs 28 year old who then had to shoot him is the little bitch?

Innocent or guilty their was only one btch in this drama.. Zimmerman, he got beat down by a 17 y/o who weighs 140-150 lbs and had to shoot him.

If thats the hero you guys look up to, you need to turn in your man card.

edit on 27-3-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem
TREYVON is an example of what

STOP THE HANG WHITEY RHETORIC



That is what I do not understand... the guy looks Spanish and sounds Spanish and I bet he grew up with a lot of Spanish influence, but it is all about GET WHITEY RHETORIC.. Ya we get it that he is 1/2 white, but I would bet that Treyvon has white ancestry in him too.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
oh brother, yet another pathetic thread trying to justify the murder of a kid
who's only mistake was wearing a hoodie in the rain:shk:


You haven't read the thread .. have you? Nope. Didn't think so.
I did NOT say that Zimmerman was innocent or guilty.
I did NOT say that Trayvon Martin was innocent or guilty.
I said that lots of people are jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts.
The first 'facts' out made Zimmerman look very guilty.
The latest 'facts' out make Zimmerman look innocent (or stupid ... take your pick).
YOUR post is a perfect example of jumping to conclusions.
You dont' know what happened and yet your language is loaded ...



I do know what happened. A young, black man was shot and killed by a hispanic who had no business following him or confronting him in the first place. Trayvon is the victim here no matter you attempt to spin this and he is most certainly not guilty.

There are no facts that suggest Zimmerman was innocent, zero. He stepped way beyond his bounds and was the instigator of the incident because he thought a black guy in a hoodie looked suspicious. His actions from the beginning are what lead to him shooting Trayvon. Even if Trayvon initiated the confrontation after being followed he was well within his rights to protect himself, zimmerman was guilty no matter how you spin it, he is not law enforcement and had no business ever pursuing Trayvon.

He is 100% responsible for his actions. Whether they were racially motivated actions or not is irrelevant, but it would be hard to argue they weren't. Would he have pursued a white guy in a pair of jeans and t-shirt? If you answer yes, he would be guilty in that situation too, he has no business, and I would have to say you're lying to yourself if you answered yes. If you answered no, then obviously his motivation was racial.

Trayvon Martin was the victim here, whether he had a whole bag full of jewelry and weapons of mass destruction found in his bookbag at school days/weeks/months prior to this incident is irrelevant, Zimmerman had no way of knowing these things. he acted based on the fact the kid looked suspicious, why did he look suspicious? He was black. Get over it and stop bsing everyone. Zimmerman caused the entire confrontation and no amount of spin will ever make Trayvon Martin guilty of anything in this specific incident.
edit on 27-3-2012 by macaronicaesar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Here is a map of how things
went down in the gated community.
It outlines the time, actions, motives
and movements of that night.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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What about the black guy that got dragged by a truck, what about all the other hate... The black panthers and Al Sharpton are eating this up because its part of their job. If they really cared about black kids dying the would invest some money into the East St. Louis police department. This is all so fake. Yes a young man wrongfully died. No one should of died, and also there shouldn't be an eye for an eye. Jesus stated directly against this...

Matthew 5:38-42 (BBE)

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, don't resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and don't turn away him who desires to borrow from you."

So Zimmerman was in the wrong to shoot him, but to take revenge against him would be against his teachings. Therefore I conclude that the black panthers are children of Satan. Just as most of the world seems to be. This world is plain evil. One of Jesus's (Yeshua's) main points was to forgive. Al Sharpton and Rev. Jackson want to use this as a focal point for black rights and to attack. I even heard them say he was a martyr. A martyr for what? Drug users and suspended kids? He sure as heck wasn't representing Jesus by smashing some hispanic/white guy's face into concrete according to witnesses. So how the heck is he a martyr? I'm still confused... Lesson, don't strike anyone for any reason, and you won't get hit back. Its not like Zimmerman was making the kid punch him. The kid did that out of anger... I'll end with this. They were both at fault, and both should go to hell. Neither of the two knew Jesus. Zimmerman still has a chance to find him someday. It's sad Martin doesn't have that opportunity. I just hope Revelation comes soon, so the locusts hurry up and clean up the earth. There is too much evil in the world. Both parties in the Zimmerman case were at fault.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by USarmyFL

Originally posted by Verse

Originally posted by USarmyFL

Originally posted by Verse

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
The clarity is in the 911 recording for everyone to hear.

Zimmerman pursued Martin for flawed reasons and Martin wound up dead for having walked in Zimmerman's territory.

LE protected Zimmerman because many LEA's in this country have a few of these type of cold blooded killers on their force.

Everyday bad cops kill people for simply not respecting or listening to them quickly enough. It is the bully mentality of either listen to me and do what I say exactly when I say it or I'll kill you, punk (negro, white trash, or countless other more derogatory labels etc.)

LE saw themselves in Zimmerman, he was a common LEO in the making.

Here, piggy piggy, Sooee!
edit on 27-3-2012 by verylowfrequency because: Come to papa


Well said.

For some reason I get a kinda Observe N Report vibe from this Zimmerman guy (except the cops helped in Zimmerman's case but hated heavily on Seth Rogen). Here is a guy who's the Neighborhood watch CAPTAIN, has called over 40 times to 911 to report suspect activity in his neighborhood, this guy's a wannabe cop. Has had several issues with the laws in the past too. It's actually amazing that this dude got a license to carry. Just imagine Seth Rogen in his mall, you´ll get the same guy almost.
His parents seem to be well connected too (which is another opposite to Rogen's character)


As for my view on the topic...
To me it's sickening how many people are trying to protect him, I thought we were here to Deny Ignorance? The fact of the matter is that a 17 years old kid has lost his life. He's never coming back and isn't even allowed to rest in peace. People are finding old pictures of him , putting them up for the whole world to see and screaming thug in a weak attempt to justify a cold blooded murder..sick, sick, sick.


Flawed reasons? I guess you did not see that when he was suspended, he had over 10 pieces of womans jewlery and a large flat head screwdriver in his backpack.. You are the type who likes to avoid the facts and run on emotion, like a bleeding heart leftist liberal. We shall see in the end who is the ignorant one.


Z had a gut feeling and it turned out to be right, this little btch was a thug thief after all.

U
edit on 27-3-2012 by USarmyFL because: (no reason given)


So according to you ...if a person steals from you you should be allowed to kill them. Thank you!


See what I mean.... I never said that, I said his suspicions for following the punk in the first place was a good instinctive decision which turned out to be true. He was shot because he attacked Zimmerman, even his girlfriends cell record shows they lost each other. Wake up dudez.....


U


Your post is one big fail. Whether or not he had a whole bag full of weapons the day before is not for Mr Zimmerman to guess about, zimmerman had no idea about this incident at school that is completely irrelevant to the case in question.

I've got a DUI, if Zimmerman followed me with a gun and I confronted him and proceeded to defend myself and ended up being shot, would he be justified because I am drunk with a previous DUI? One has nothing to do with the other. Zimmerman had no business pursuing anyone at any time, trayvon felt threatened and defended himself, like any rational person would that was followed by a man with a gun. Wake the hell up, no wonder we are doomed.

Holy dog #, some of you are ignorant.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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The situation started when Mr. Zimmerman jumped to a conclusion. Now, sadly. he will face consequences worse than prison as he is a wanted man. He lost his freedom and now will live in fear of being assassinated. Whether he used a racist word, some indicated he did. I wish I knew for sure and that if it is not true that the lie be exposed.

Not trying to be an arm-chair expert, but I see a possibility of this fueling hatred between Hispanics and Blacks if . Zimmerman is shot to avenge Martin's death. Of course, anybody could be shot to avenge his death, even you.

Yeah, it sad the way things turn out. I hope that all will try to rise above racial slurs. Two wrongs never make a right. They only make things twice as bad.

Love your enemies and pray for them. Pray for those filled with hate.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77
reply to post by Furbs
 


No, the media made it about race. All those black protestors made it about race. Anyone who buys into this BS is WRONG.

Zimmerman made it about a murder. Anyone who thinks he shouldn't be arrested is WRONG.

Anyone who neglects to realize that the media needs to be held accountable for their actions in creating this situation is WRONG.

There, I'm done adding to this garbage topic. It makes me more misanthropic and angry by the minute thinking about all this.
edit on 27-3-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)


I think the idea that he is not being arrested is what makes it racial. Not necessarily the fact the man he murdered happen to be black, the black community is outraged because he hasn't been arrested and rightfully so. This happens all too often. That being said, I think you're stretching or being willfully blind to think zimmerman approaching him in the first place wasn't racially motivated. Why else did he follow this guy walking down the street?
edit on 27-3-2012 by macaronicaesar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by wutz4tom
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


99% of the conclusion jumping to public will learn Nothing from this.....

Until they Understand that the main stream media is Not Much different than the tabloids....The More sensational the better,and the more attention the story gets.

Shame on the media and the foolish/gullible sheeple.

** You've made a great point and I agree,..But people will always fall for media B.S.

edit on 27-3-2012 by wutz4tom because: (no reason given)
**** Lets get all the facts first. This is truly what we need.
The facts can't simply be what we want them to be just to use and try and make our point..Who knows the true details..We will see and then this heated topic may take a big turn in one direction or another.

My question is...isnt He a neighborhood watch captain or something??
** Surely there must be a Procedure that they follow..If they are being permitted to carry a gun while performing this service what is it? Did he follow?? Of course everyone knows the officer on the phone Supposedly told him not to pursue the trespasser but what action did his job duties call for?? wont this give us an idea of he was just gungho or doing what he was instructed to do.
Also, its interesting that the officer on the phones advice is being talked about as if it was the absolute only option and not to be questioned. Couldnt there be more to this? waasnt it mentioned for one that there had been numerous breakins? what else?


edit on 27-3-2012 by wutz4tom because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


Admittedly Zimmerman should not have had a gun on him, but concealed carry is permitted in Florida; those are the laws they choose to live by, so let them die by them too. If Zimmerman did not have a gun on him, however, he might be the one lying in a coffin.

Think about it, Zimmerman was overweight and out of shape; Martin, on the other hand, was a fit, 200lb seventeen year old. While we don't know for certain whether Martin beat up Zimmerman, and assuming that all of the eyewitness accounts are false or unreliable, Zimmerman was found by the police with sweat and grass stains all over his clothes, a bleeding nose, and a bleeding head, indicating that there was indeed an altercation between Zimmerman and Martin and that Martin was beating Zimmerman pretty badly, to the point where he felt his life was threatened.

It is possible that Zimmerman shot Martin in cold blood then proceeded to injure himself to make it look like self defense, but I doubt he could have gotten away with such an act given that someone would have witnessed it. The more you dig into this case the more it looks like a self defense scenario. I'm just saying, Martin need not speak when the evidence can do the talking for him.

Even though Zimmerman should not have had a gun, Martin should not have confronted him after losing him the first time (Martin ran and successfully escaped Zimmerman due to Zimmerman being out of shape, then returned to confront him). The whole thing is a tragedy but we don't need to spill Zimmerman's blood out of blind vengeance and misunderstanding.

Two wrongs don't make a right. What's done is done, we don't need to pile onto the slaughter.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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same argument different day. One side verses the other. Each think they are right. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING on this one but both sides argue over who is the most right out of a speculated situation of role play...thats crap



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by itsJUSTzo
 


No another important fact...

He lives in Miami....

He was visiting his fathers girlfriends house.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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I dont give a rats ass if Martin stole in the past, smoked crack, snatched old ladys purses.

DID ZIMMERMAN OBSERVE HIM BREAKING ANY LAWS AT THE TIME!?

No he did not...

Did Zimmerman have the authority to follow him and question him about his presence in the neighborhood?

NO HE DID NOT!

Here is what Zimmerman was :




He was a overzealous, wanna be hero who failed at being a real cop.

He followed someone he observed doing no wrong, instigating them into a fight by being a stalker and when he was getting his butt whipped he shot them.


Do I think he is a murderer? I cant say. Do I think Martin is 100% innocent? I cant say.

But I can say I feel Zimmerman carry's some blame regardless for his overzealous and stupid decision.. I feel at least manslaughter should be handed out.

If Mr Observe and report did his damn job, just observe and report none of this would have happened.
edit on 27-3-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



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