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"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

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posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by JimmyJagov
 


When you are on private property and the one asking the question is the neighborhood watch guy...then he most certainly does have the right to ask him a question.


Zimmerman was the "self"-appointed neighborhood watchman. He saw himself in that role, and that's fine and dandy, but it still doesn't give him the right to question or detain Martin. Myself, right now, I'm visiting my sister until I get on my feet. If someone were to ask me what I was doing there, I may or may not answer, but I'd be pissed. I have a RIGHT to live where I please, within means. I have a fully developed brain. At 17, you are young, dumb, and well we know the rest. You don't think straight and you think you are invincible. Both parties may have made a mistake that night, but Zimmerman instigated it by following, then thinking it was HIS responsibility, not the police, to question Martin. He's lucky Martin wasn't the one breaking into homes and had a gun himself. Maybe then it would be Zimmerman about to be put in the ground over his foolishness, not Martin.




The FBI, the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, and the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Middle District of Florida will investigate the killing of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old Florida high school student, who was shot by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman. "The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation," a statement released by the Justice Department this evening said. "The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident."




posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




edit on Sun Mar 25 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors – Please Review This Link.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 



Keep in mind, Martin RAN from ZImmerman according to Zimmerman's 911 call.


TM ran around the corner. He told his girlfriend he wasn't going to run. There is nothing that proves TM was running from GZ.


If George Zimmerman was not close enough to Martin to ask him what he was doing there when he was on the phone with 911, how did he get so close to Martin afterwards?


Exactly, even if GZ took off running again, TM should have been quite a ways down the block. Look at the satellite map. If TM was shot on that little patch of grass just around the corner, it indicates that TM was waiting for GZ, after running around the corner. It shows that TM ambushed GZ.

My scenario is completely based on the evidence, and especially the two calls. We know TM runs around the corner, GZ starts to follow, then told he does not need to do that. GZ makes arrangements to meet with the police officers, the phone call ends. The body is found just around the corner from the police report, so that is where the confrontation takes place. TM doesn't mention a truck, so all indication are GZ walks around the corner, and that is when the confrontation takes place. From the GFs statement, it happens quickly, which sounds like TM ambushed GZ.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by TheXoor
Has this been posted yet? (sorry, not wading through sixty pages of this stuff).

If not, have a look. Not really all that cool, IMHO. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

(I used photoshop to black out a few letters on the shirt so as to be in official compliance with ATS's no obsecnity rules.)




More race baiting...

Who cares what t-shirt that moron is wearing..



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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George Zimmerman has zero credibility.

He carried a gun while "on patrol" violating established protocols for Neighborhood Watch.
He has a history of harassment against black people.
He has filed false police reports, specifically regarding alleged assaults.
He has taken the life of a child.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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Thank you for this. As much as I agree with some posters, and agree to disagree with a few others about this case in particular, I'm glad I saw this a learned more about what was going on. I just can't believe I had to sift through almost 7 pages of bickering to find it. (How many more are there, I wonder?)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
TM ran around the corner. He told his girlfriend he wasn't going to run. There is nothing that proves TM was running from GZ.


Sure there is. It is called Zimmerman's 911 call when Zimmerman says, "He's running". It does not matter if he runs around the corner or several blocks. He ran because of Zimmerman. Previously to his encounter with Zimmerman he was "walking around" by Zimmerman's own report in the 911 call.

Are you suggesting Martin ran because he suddenly decided he wanted some exercise? Or is your suggestion that Martin ran away in an attempt to lure Zimmerman close so he could attack?


Exactly, even if GZ took off running again, TM should have been quite a ways down the block. Look at the satellite map. If TM was shot on that little patch of grass just around the corner, it indicates that TM was waiting for GZ, after running around the corner. It shows that TM ambushed GZ.


Knowing where they were is not proof of an "ambush". It is proof that Martin stopped running.


My scenario is completely based on the evidence, and especially the two calls. We know TM runs around the corner, GZ starts to follow, then told he does not need to do that.


You are assuming this is the sequence of events. You do not know this as factual. Unless you have access to information no one else does, this is pure speculation on your part.


GZ makes arrangements to meet with the police officers, the phone call ends.


Not accurate. He agrees to no meeting place after being told to not follow. The only agreement is that Police will call him back and then he will tell them where he is at. This statement alone suggest that Zimmerman was going to continue to follow after being not to. If he had no intention of following Martin further, why not accept the meeting place at the clubhouse or mailboxes like the Operator suggest?


The body is found just around the corner from the police report, so that is where the confrontation takes place.


Again, assumption.


TM doesn't mention a truck,

Martin doesn't mention anything now. He is dead. He mentions to his girlfriend that he is being followed. We KNOW about the truck based on the 911 call.


so all indication are GZ walks around the corner, and that is when the confrontation takes place. From the GFs statement, it happens quickly, which sounds like TM ambushed GZ.


There is nothing in her statement that suggest Zimmerman was "ambushed". How often does a person who has just set you up to follow them around a corner, as you describe, stop to ask a question like, "Why are you following me?" just before "ambushing" you? And not only does Martin, in your scenario, postpone his ambush to ask a question, he also waits to here the answer, "What are you doing here?" before "ambushing"?

Either your idea of "ambush" is a bit off, or this is the most pitiful ambush known to man.









edit on 25-3-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by ker2010
 


If she punches you or otherwise tries to accost you and you live in a stand your ground state and you fear for your life....you can defend yourself.....yes.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by popsmayhem
 


To reply to you and Poet...

Sounds like the most logical turn of events....BECAUSE.....

If this kid was running away.....he would have been long gone....how in the world would GZ catch him....no way.

Race and gun control and whatever else the media is selling has everyone so blinded they can't even grasp the physics of the situation.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


OK OK


No one has any video of this incident correct?

No neighbor saw who started the fight correct? Seeing who is winning is not seeing who started it.

If thats the case all they can go on his Zimmerman word that he was in fear of his life by a 140 lb male.


So why the hell did they not investigate it more?


No one knows who initiated the first physical altercation! Do we agree on that?

IF yes then does this not warrant more investigation?


This makes zero sense. If this is the case it would be SO easy to get away with murder. Invite someone you dont like somewhere private. Shoot them and punch yourself in the nose.

Cops show up, officer he punched me i feared for my life and shot him.


Case dropped?

That easily huh? Hmm i had no idea shooting a unarmed individual was sooo easy to get away..

PS Bush who signed the law said Stand your ground doe not apply to this case!!!


edit on 25-3-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by ker2010
 


Read the law....


ow somebody away. But Florida’s law is different. Florida has a law, along with 17 states, that says you can stand your ground. Which means you don’t have that obligation to try to run first. So, in Florida, as long as you have a reasonable belief that your life and safety is in danger, you can use force to defend yourself, even deadly force. And now that’s the situation they’re suggesting.


www.mediaite.com...

I don't have time to find the law for you today...do one research on your own.....the law us what it is like it or not.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


So i can say someone slapped me open handed and i felt in danger for my life (cause their is no way to measure that) and shoot them...

hmm nice
edit on 25-3-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by ker2010[/ii
i do agree hes a lil bitch and just couldnt become a cop or something..but im gonna go to college to be an attorney..so i would be a coward for justifying what was standard ground or self defense?? he was a lil bitch but he wasnt the agressor i dont think he started it but he deff got his ass kicked so he shot in self defense,..a sad story...could be a conspiracy too you know ..divide the people ..take the minds off of things...



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by ker2010
 


Read the law....


ow somebody away. But Florida’s law is different. Florida has a law, along with 17 states, that says you can stand your ground. Which means you don’t have that obligation to try to run first. So, in Florida, as long as you have a reasonable belief that your life and safety is in danger, you can use force to defend yourself, even deadly force. And now that’s the situation they’re suggesting.


www.mediaite.com...

I don't have time to find the law for you today...do one research on your own.....the law us what it is like it or not.


This post is exactly what is wrong with this thread.

Let me make sure I have this right.... You are telling to people to read the law. You are basing your opinion on this law. Yet, when you tell people to read the law, you link to an article that is some other person's opinion about what the law says?

Then you have the nerve to tell people to do their own research?


Here is the law itself, from the State of Florida:
Stand Your Ground Law

This section of the law should be of particular interest

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


So does Zimmerman have a "duty to retreat"? This will be a focal point for any attorney. You have no duty to retreat from your property or your home. Zimmerman was not on his property or in his home. Considering Zimmerman was attacked, if you choose to believe that version of events, his "duty to retreat" is up for debate, but he has an option to retreat before any attack had occurred which would be at the moment he was told to not follow Martin. He chose to ignore that direction, thereby assuming the risk of his own actions (again as I pointed out previously), and of course the issue of "reasonable force" will come into play as well. Was it "reasonable" for Zimmerman to think his life was in danger? Which again, when answering this question the fact that he ignored the direction of the 911 Operator who told him not to follow, he legally assumed risk for choosing not to do so.

So now that you read the law, go back to my previous post involving the Involuntary Manslaughter laws and take a second look.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I already posted the law earlier in this thread....not going to keep doing if people are to lazy to do it themselves....
I read it BEFORE posting my "opinion"...
Unlike most people on ATS....and especially in this thread.

The link I just posted was a summary for the lazy and uninformed.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


How convenient for you , you only posted one part of the four part law....the one that fits your agenda...

He had no duty to retreat...hence the title of the law...STAND YOUR GROUND...it does not only pertain to your property and if you read the whole law you know that.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by MrWendal
 


How convenient for you , you only posted one part of the four part law....the one that fits your agenda...

He had no duty to retreat...hence the title of the law...STAND YOUR GROUND...it does not only pertain to your property and if you read the whole law you know that.




Maybe you should read my post a little more carefully. I did not select a section that "fits my agenda", I selected the section that will come under fire by any attorney worth a damn because that is the relevant section. I also believe I addressed the "duty to retreat" very well and did not offer any opinion about his "duty to retreat". Maybe you failed to notice the "?" at the end of my sentence? It means it is a question.

The "duty to retreat" is going to become a very complex issue and I already explained why that is. SO again, maybe you should re-read my previous post a little more carefully.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:16 AM
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Back in Germany, in Hitlers days and all that horror. They were doing much of the same, USA just puts a sign up in the neighborhood and calls it "Neighborhood Watch Group".
Zimmermans a kkklutz, AND WILL GET HIS. (Probably hang himself), And I
Bet he's not sleeping well these days, taking a "life" so senselessly is bad enough. But what he has done,,,,,,uuuummmmm well. No further comment.

B



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by timetothink
 



Sounds like the most logical turn of events....BECAUSE.....

If this kid was running away.....he would have been long gone....how in the world would GZ catch him....no way.


EXACTLY, if TM was running away from GZ, then TM would have gotten away, and be alive today. From where the scuffle took place, and the body lay, it looks like TM ran around the corner, then cut back and ambushed GZ.

Who's the lynch mob now? What going down over this ain't right.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



Originally posted by poet1b

Anything one decides to take on can be considered a job, from sweeping the garage to watching the neighborhood at the request of people in the fated community.
Could you please provide a copy of the audio file or transcript where others within this neighborhood asked Zimmerman to be an armed patrolman?

What part of the word watch is defined as parking your vehicle, taking your gun, and pursuing someone for no real reason?


 
Based on your extremely flawed logic:

I'm concerned that my local bank may be vulnerable, and at risk of robbery today. Just to ensure that all remains safe, my 12-guage and I, will go down to the bank, and stand guard outside the vault. I will do whatever it takes to protect my $3.81.

Would that be ok?
 



You claim GZ is guilty for exercising his own rights to watch over his neighborhood? You are wrong.
I said no such thing. I have not said what I think he is guilty of, or what he should be convicted of.


 


Twist the story all you want, but this is what it comes down to.
I am not twisting anything. Zimmerman took a life, and because of that, he does not deserve to walk free, without first proving beyond a reasonable doubt that his actions were justifiable. That is the bottom line.


 


  • Who got shot?
  • Whose gun was used?
  • Whose property were they on?





     

    Originally posted by poet1b


    Originally posted by BrokenCircles

    Zimmerman got out of his vehicle, with his gun, in order to pursue a stranger, and for no reason other than the fact that Trayvon looked suspicious.


    Zimmerman got out of his vehicle with his gun as he has a right to do. There is no evidence that GZ intended to do anything but watch TM.

    TM looking suspicious is all the reason that GZ needed.
    That IS the evidence. You don't park your vehicle, and get out of it with a loaded gun, if your only intention is to simply watch.


    Who would do such a thing?
    [color=FCF9A2]A person in a self-appointed position of authority, and with an overzealous ego, whom is on a power trip.



    edit on 3/26/12 by BrokenCircles because: (no reason given)



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