"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

reply to post by KillerQueen

This topic is really bringing out the WORST in ATS and not only that, it appears to be an organized effort - the same people - ginning up BS and hyperbole to try and stir up racial tensions.

Actually your topic on Geraldo with the whole 'Hoodie' thing has stirred racial tension, because now it is being abused by the MSM along with other members on ATS that are using your same concept. Keep trying to dodge me Killer.

reply to post by KillerQueen


It's working...at least this part of your post...

ginning up ... to try and stir up

Photo: Million Hoodie march in Philadelphia - via @ActionNewsMattChristian

Photo: Hundreds gather for Million Hoodie march in Philadelphia - via @ActionNewsMatt

reply to post by Chalupas


Not really.
From your OP

WHAT THE MSM ISNT TELLING YOU OBAMA - "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon."

Your link does not show Obama at all, let alone holding a picture.

-- "Trayvon Martin was a helpless child."-- Don't be fooled by the pictures from his 7th grade graduation. Trayvon Martin was 6'3, 170 pounds, and a football player. Far from helpless against a 5'8, overweight, Zimmerman.

No.
Trayvon Martin was 6'0 160lbs. Zimmerman is 5'9 weight unknown.

imageshack.us... Actually, from his facebook posts we can assume he was a known drug dealer.

Again, why must we assume Martin was a drug dealer?

--"Zimmerman was told by police not to follow Martin."-- Wrong. Zimmerman was told that by a 911 dispatcher who has no authority. --"Zimmerman shot at Trayvon without reason."--- Wrong. According to the POLICE REPORT, Zimmerman was bleeding and had wet, grass stains on the back of his shirt.

These two pretty much go together, 911 dispatch told Zimmerman that they didn't need him to pursue and he did anyway, that is an aggressive action, it provokes defense.

--"You can hear Trayvon yelling for help in the 911 audio files." According to EYE WITNESS accounts, Zimmerman was underneath Trayvon Martin yelling for help.

Zimmerman still provoked any altercation.

--"Trayvon lived in the nieghborhood."-- False again. Trayvon was serving an 8 day school suspension at the time and staying with his father.

Trayvon's father lived there and you don't need justification or a permit for visiting your father. I haven't heard or read anything about a an 8 day suspension from school. Do you have a link for that?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Chalupas

 

Not really.
From your OP

WHAT THE MSM ISNT TELLING YOU OBAMA - "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon."

Your link does not show Obama at all, let alone holding a picture.

-- "Trayvon Martin was a helpless child."-- Don't be fooled by the pictures from his 7th grade graduation. Trayvon Martin was 6'3, 170 pounds, and a football player. Far from helpless against a 5'8, overweight, Zimmerman.

No.
Trayvon Martin was 6'0 160lbs. Zimmerman is 5'9 weight unknown.

imageshack.us... Actually, from his facebook posts we can assume he was a known drug dealer.

Again, why must we assume Martin was a drug dealer?

--"Zimmerman was told by police not to follow Martin."-- Wrong. Zimmerman was told that by a 911 dispatcher who has no authority. --"Zimmerman shot at Trayvon without reason."--- Wrong. According to the POLICE REPORT, Zimmerman was bleeding and had wet, grass stains on the back of his shirt.

These two pretty much go together, 911 dispatch told Zimmerman that they didn't need him to pursue and he did anyway, that is an aggressive action, it provokes defense.

--"You can hear Trayvon yelling for help in the 911 audio files." According to EYE WITNESS accounts, Zimmerman was underneath Trayvon Martin yelling for help.

Zimmerman still provoked any altercation.

--"Trayvon lived in the nieghborhood."-- False again. Trayvon was serving an 8 day school suspension at the time and staying with his father.

Trayvon's father lived there and you don't need justification or a permit for visiting your father. I haven't heard or read anything about a an 8 day suspension from school. Do you have a link for that?

Asking someone a question isnt provocation. Still, Martin was physically stronger and more athletic than Zimmerman. And, well...I dont think that guy was trying to buy any ferns when he said "he needa plant".

reply to post by TheOneElectric


In a way yes, but also shouldn't trayvon have dealt with it differently too? If he hadn't attacked, zimmerman wouldn't of shot him... I see blame on both sides at the moment... But yes I think probably zimmerman should get in some kind of trouble for following the guy, but what would the sentence be for that?

Mind you I think he should only get in trouble for following him, even though the outcome was tragic, trayvon shouldn't of attacked him and could of dealt with things differently.

It's a real tough one to be honest, I'm trying to look at it from both sides. I know that if I was trayvon I would of asked the guy from a distance what he wanted, then when he told me he was neighborhood watch I would of told him I was looking for my dad. Should zimmerman be getting involved, hmmm it's tough, if he really had multiple break ins in the area and was genuinely concerned, asking what he's doing isn't so bad.

reply to post by UberL33t


A march demanding justice is not racially stirred up trouble, there's all skin colors marching all week and probably next week too.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Well you kind of answered my questions though your situation doesn't seem to be same. What would you do if there were multiple break ins and no-one had been caught? "they always get away".

Nothing. The only thing I could do is coordinate with my neighbors better and make sure someone is on watch to observe every single minute of every single day, which is an impossible task.

He ran away and zimmerman followed on foot, so couldn't he have ran away again? Or asked the guy what he wanted while keeping a distance? Like on the other side of a car or something? Hell even bang on a door or 2 and scream that some creep is following him?

Your presumption is incorrect. Trayvon ran away, Zimmerman followed him in a car at first (as far as we know) later getting out to follow on foot. Trayvon was also on the phone at the time with his girlfriend. He told her he was being followed. She told him to run. According to her report, he remained on the phone with her until Zimmerman made contact at which point the phone went dead.

This is also not debatable. Attorneys already have the call logs.

Oh btw the audio you posted, was this before or after he got out the car? What do you make of trayvon standing there and staring at him? And then starting to approach him? zimmerman seemed a bit scared at that point to be honest.

As far as the audio. I do not know. That is the 911 call that has been released to the media. I make nothing of the claim that Trayvon stood there looking at him or staring at him or approaching him. For starters, we do not know how far Zimmerman is away from Trayvon. All we know is that Zimmerman was following Trayvon. If Zimmerman is still a good distance away at the point this takes place, this could be a case of Trayvon simply looking back and wondering why he is being followed by a Stranger. Getting a look at the car who is following him, trying to see the man in the car. Again, he was on the phone with a girl claiming "someone is following me". Zimmerman sounds very scared at that point, and as he says in the 911 call, at that point he had already decided that Trayvon was on drugs and "up to no good". Which is a complete assumption on his part since he has made no contact with Trayvon other than following him.

Okay so lets say zimmerman was an idiot and followed this guy when he shouldn't, does that deserve a physical attack? Shouldn't trayvon of called the police to report the guy following him?

Weather or not it deserves a physical attack is up for debate. I would suggest thinking of it this way....

"On the night of March 17, 2011 a 17 year old boy is walking alone at night. He is being followed by a stranger in a car. He attempts to run away, but the stranger follows him."

If we were talking about a completely different case, how hard would it be to imagine the next line in that story is,

"He was then caught and kidnapped, if you have any information on this case please contact...."

In light of zimmerman being attacked how should he of dealt with it? Perhaps the guy wasn't a fighter? How should he of defended himself? Even though he somewhat provoked the attack.

In my opinion there is no "somewhat" about it. He did provoke the situation and weather or not he was attacked is up for debate. Assuming that he was attacked, I would suggest at that point it was already too late. The situation was already escalated to a point where it was only going to end badly and with one or both being hurt.

reply to post by xyankee


Is this supposed to be a negative statement towards me, I dont get it?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by UberL33t

 

A march demanding justice is not racially stirred up trouble, there's all skin colors marching all week and probably next week too.

Maybe not, but there is extremely racial undertones against whites and asians alike, as evidence in Facebook pages dedicated to Martin and being black.

reply to post by Chalupas


But Zimmerman has no "authority" either. He is a private citizen not a cop. He is part of a neighborhood watch group, whose responsibility is not to surveil and investigate crime within their neighborhood. But to watch and report activity to the police.

Again to watch and report, not to question people walking down the street in a free country about "what they are doing walking down the street". That constitutes harassment and following an individual down the street with the purpose of "seeing what they are doing" is stalking.

Unless this man has been given authority by the state to participate in police work, than he had no right to do anything.

I am not attempting to defend Martins actions of attacking Zimmerman (if that is completely true). I am saying (like Electric is) that Zimmerman's actions exacerbated the situation, resulting in a death. I dont think this was murder, but it sure looks a little like manslaughter.

reply to post by Chalupas


Chasing someone is aggressive, and the facebook thing while apparent to what it references...it could have meant he needed a ride to get it or that he knew where to get it, there's a million scenarios.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Chalupas

 

Chasing someone is aggressive, and the facebook thing while apparent to what it references...it could have meant he needed a ride to get it or that he knew where to get it, there's a million scenarios.

Well, he also gang banged and fought. But, I decided to leave that out of the OP.

Originally posted by Chalupas

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Chalupas

 

Chasing someone is aggressive, and the facebook thing while apparent to what it references...it could have meant he needed a ride to get it or that he knew where to get it, there's a million scenarios.

Well, he also gang banged and fought. But, I decided to leave that out of the OP.

Now you're just making up crap and it is YOU with the clear agenda. Disgusting.

I can already picture Obama saying "Can't we all just get along.'? Someone has to be in the middle if this tension begins to go out of control. What a better time for Obama to step in and sway the public from the economic issue. Now this becomes a social issue, and we all know Obama will win a re-election if he can convince the Americans to be together on this issue.

Originally posted by Chalupas
Zimmerman's job was to investigate suspicious activity.

No it is not. For one, it is not a "job". It is a choice you make to do something to fight crime and protect your neighbors. The job of a neighborhood watch is to.. get ready for it... WATCH. Investigating crime and suspicious activity is the job of Law Enforcement. Zimmerman's only obligation is to observe and report.

A young man walking around in the rainy night is suspicous.

You admit to jogging in the rain. There is nothing suspicious about a person walking. Rain or Shine. Walking is not suspicious behavior. It is what people have been doing since the beginning of time and they do today when they do not own a car.

Your arguement would hold merit if Martin was being followed by a random stranger, but that isnt the case.

To Martin, Zimmerman IS a random stranger. Do you have any evidence at all that suggest that Martin knew Zimmerman and knew that he was part of the neighborhood watch program? So from Martin's perspective, Zimmerman is a total stranger who is following him.

Citizens have a duty to protect their neighborhoods as well (BTW quit throwing around the word "rights") He has every "right" to keep his neighborhood safe.

I agree. Zimmerman does have that right, but in this case what exactly is Zimmerman protecting or keeping safe? Martin was not breaking the law. He was not breaking into cars, he was not breaking into homes. His only crime was that Zimmerman did not know who he was or what he was doing, and that is not a crime.

Zimmerman asked Trayvon what he was doing out at night -- non agressive behavior. Martin's repsonse was violence.

Debatable. According to the girlfriend Trayvon asks why are you following me? At which point Zimmerman ask him why he is out alone at night? So first off, that is a very creepy response from a total stranger who is following you. Aside from that, it is none of Zimmerman's business what he is doing. There is nothing illegal about being out alone at night. At this point, Trayvon had already run away from Zimmerman. So this is not even Zimmerman making contact now... at this point it is Zimmerman initiating a confrontation.

Once again, what you do does not matter because you are not Trayvon. You were not their; so do not falsify the story by putting in imaginative scenarios.

There is nothing imaginative about it. It is what reasonable people do in these types of situations, and the fact is YOU were not there either. Yet you speak like you were when you say Zimmerman asked a question and was met with violence, even though witnesses who were there give statements that are contrary to your own.

reply to post by Kali74


I didn't quote "racially" stirred up...I omitted that word in my reply to the poster.

Originally posted by Kali74

Originally posted by Chalupas

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Chalupas

 

Chasing someone is aggressive, and the facebook thing while apparent to what it references...it could have meant he needed a ride to get it or that he knew where to get it, there's a million scenarios.

Well, he also gang banged and fought. But, I decided to leave that out of the OP.

Now you're just making up crap and it is YOU with the clear agenda. Disgusting.

imageshack.us...


imageshack.us...
*snip*

Just a few pictures. There are more out there

Disclaimer: His gang affiliation has nothing to do with his death. I am not saying that.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Wow...I am disgusted...wish I hadn't clicked this thread.

I haven't been in these threads much...because I always thought the controversy was just that Zimmerman hadn't been arrested yet...I never new some very sick people thought that this kid deserved to die.


Unbelievable that people think shooting an unarmed kid after chasing him down is self defense...what kind of moron, or more likely racist, do you have to be to think like this???

Outkast.. you and I are usually on two separate sides of every issue and when I read your post I literally stood up and applauded you sir. Finally someone who gets it!

Just goes to show you, sometimes people are not as different as you think they are. There is always something that brings people together.

reply to post by Chalupas


I guess I'm missing something, all I see is tweets saying goodbye.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Wow...I am disgusted...wish I hadn't clicked this thread.

I haven't been in these threads much...because I always thought the controversy was just that Zimmerman hadn't been arrested yet...I never new some very sick people thought that this kid deserved to die.


Unbelievable that people think shooting an unarmed kid after chasing him down is self defense...what kind of moron, or more likely racist, do you have to be to think like this???

Outkast.. you and I are usually on two separate sides of every issue and when I read your post I literally stood up and applauded you sir. Finally someone who gets it!

Just goes to show you, sometimes people are not as different as you think they are. There is always something that brings people together.

Glad I could help