"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

Originally posted by Chalupas
Agressive behaviour would be attacking someone who is curious as to why you are walking alone at night and running from cars.

Aggressive behavior is following a 17 year old who is minding his own business with a car.

Zimmerman is a private citizen. He has no right asking this young man why he is walking alone at night. It is none of his business to begin with.

Again, listen to the 911 call. According to Zimmerman, Trayvon walked towards him and looks at him. If I am on watch that night, and someone I am watching walks up to me and is looking at me, I will say hello. I will be nice, say hello,l start a conversation and find out why you were in my area with simply chit chat. That's how it is done. I do not automatically assume because I do not recognize you or know you that you are a threat of some kind.

Zimmerman was acting defensive from the start. He had already assumed Trayvon was "up to no good" based on his looks alone. He says it in the 911 call. He does not attempt to make any contact until AFTER he has followed this kid around enough to cause this kid to run away from him.

reply to post by Chalupas


Yeah.. sorry it doesn't really matter. Stand your ground only applies when you are.. you know standing your ground. Not when you follow the person. Zimmerman caused the confrontation, not the other way around. He could have simply called the police and kept his distance. He didn't need to get anywhere near the kid.

reply to post by TheOneElectric


I agree, but don't hang the man just yet. Let all the facts of the case come to light and then we can determine where to go from there.

reply to post by mee30


I said it was my opinion.

Originally posted by Irish614
What really bothers me is Obama commenting about this at all. He should have said, "Yes I heard about the story and it's a tragedy, that's all I am going to say about that." Anytime a black person is involved the media flocks to Al Sharpton, Obama, Spike Lee, etc. Who do they go to when the blacks gun down a White person for "being in the wrong neighborhood"?

No worries... Obama will have a beer in the Rose Garden and the nation will be healed... that's the way it worked the last time right...

So far as who "they go to" when a white person is gunned down in the ghetto... no one... because "if he wasn't there looking for drugs he'd still be alive"...

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
reply to post by Chalupas

 

Until Zimmerman alerted authorities and Mr.Martin of his intent, it fits the definition as far as Mr.Martin could put together.
law.findlaw.com...

With the knowledge of kidnappings and random murders that occur from weirdos following people when they are alone, any reasonable person would be frightened. Mr. Martin was raised in a culture that rightfully taught him to be frightened of pursuing strangers that are not figures of legitimate authority.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Yes, it's so that the Government and States (14th) don't infringe on the right...but the spirit is obviously there adn intended for the individual as well.

I'm absolutely sure that we don't have an expected right to privacy. Hell, Zimmerman wasn't even a lawful authority figure. He was following the young man after being INSTRUCTED TO DO OTHERWISE BY THE 911 OPERATOR. He then invaded the youngman's personal space. Anyone knows, and anyone tells their little girls or young boys not to allow your pursuer to get too close or bad things can happen, even if they are just "questioning why you are in a certain place." Never let the pursuer get close. This sticks with you for life after all of those horrible child kidnapping cases became popular. No one wants to end up in the back of a trunk or stabbed because you gave someone the authority to enter your personal space for a nice explanation of why you're walking at night.

Who was Zimmerman to engage in this activity that infringed upon personal sovereignty? Who was Zimmerman to take this to the length that it resulted in the death of a living breathing human being.

You all forget what happened here. A person died...not over money, not over food, but over "maybe he's doing something wrong because he doesn't look like he belongs here"

Oh, so you do believe that Martin's "culture" taught him to run away from authority or attack anyone who is percieved as a threat? This is the same culture that glorifies violence and crime, correct? Just making sure.

Zimmerman was an elected figure to help keep a watch on the neighborhood. No one is seizing Martin's rights or property. No one is inclined to personal space -- especially when they are not even in their own neighborhood. Martin deemed a neigborhood watchman as a threat and attacked him. How can you be so biased?

Regarding Obama's comment, I think it's terrible that he chose to use the boy's physical appearance to show his distain about the entire thing.

I tried to find Obama's comments in regards to the recent school shooting, but my search results only included his comments about Trayvon.

This is a tragic event, but there are many tragic events happening to children every day in America as well as elsewhere. The POTUS has to use this case to say that this shooting reminds him of his kids?
If I were him, I'd have a long talk with that teleprompter of his. It seems to be a machine who's hungry to start a new civil war.

reply to post by Chalupas


I'm talking about the stranger danger culture and you're talking about black culture? How did you make that leap? You're...you're fueled by race here. You have to be, or you have to be trolling. I clearly presented a stranger danger culture in my argument and now you twist it to "black culture". Stop trolling. Or stop making this about race.

Originally posted by Irish614
reply to post by TheOneElectric

 

I agree, but don't hang the man just yet. Let all the facts of the case come to light and then we can determine where to go from there.

Right, but if we only go by the facts then stand your ground only applies to Mr. Martin...who is now dead. That's a fact.

Originally posted by Chalupas
It has happened to me. I went running at midnight (a hobby of mine) and got stopped by a truck that had been following me for half a block. My answer to their question was that I was just running.

Was I scared? Yes

Did I run or attack him? No.

Where you 17 years old? Probably not.

This is a world now that is not like what it was when I was a kid. Every single day you hear stories of freaks and perverts who kidnap kids and even adults (even 17 year old big kids). Tell you what... get in your car today and follow around some 22 year old man. Chances are, someone will call the cops on you. You are now a suspicious vehicle because you (a stranger) is following around another person whom you do not know and they do not know you.

Trayvon had every reason to view Zimmerman as a threat. He tried to flee, Zimmerman followed. It is not hard to see why this young man, being a big guy as he was, would elect to stop running and fight instead.

the result's are what matter's. the process is irrelevant.

reply to post by MrWendal


Well you kind of answered my questions though your situation doesn't seem to be same. What would you do if there were multiple break ins and no-one had been caught? "they always get away".

He ran away and zimmerman followed on foot, so couldn't he have ran away again? Or asked the guy what he wanted while keeping a distance? Like on the other side of a car or something? Hell even bang on a door or 2 and scream that some creep is following him?

Yeah I think he was defo over zealous, there is blame on both sides here I think, zimmerman as you said could of given the description and left it up to the police.

Oh btw the audio you posted, was this before or after he got out the car? What do you make of trayvon standing there and staring at him? And then starting to approach him? zimmerman seemed a bit scared at that point to be honest.

Okay so lets say zimmerman was an idiot and followed this guy when he shouldn't, does that deserve a physical attack? Shouldn't trayvon of called the police to report the guy following him?

In light of zimmerman being attacked how should he of dealt with it? Perhaps the guy wasn't a fighter? How should he of defended himself? Even though he somewhat provoked the attack.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by Chalupas
Agressive behaviour would be attacking someone who is curious as to why you are walking alone at night and running from cars.

Aggressive behavior is following a 17 year old who is minding his own business with a car.

Zimmerman is a private citizen. He has no right asking this young man why he is walking alone at night. It is none of his business to begin with.

Again, listen to the 911 call. According to Zimmerman, Trayvon walked towards him and looks at him. If I am on watch that night, and someone I am watching walks up to me and is looking at me, I will say hello. I will be nice, say hello,l start a conversation and find out why you were in my area with simply chit chat. That's how it is done. I do not automatically assume because I do not recognize you or know you that you are a threat of some kind.

Zimmerman was acting defensive from the start. He had already assumed Trayvon was "up to no good" based on his looks alone. He says it in the 911 call. He does not attempt to make any contact until AFTER he has followed this kid around enough to cause this kid to run away from him.

Zimmerman's job was to investigate suspicious activity. A young man walking around in the rainy night is suspicous. Your arguement would hold merit if Martin was being followed by a random stranger, but that isnt the case.

Citizens have a duty to protect their neighborhoods as well (BTW quit throwing around the word "rights") He has every "right" to keep his neighborhood safe.

Zimmerman asked Trayvon what he was doing out at night -- non agressive behavior. Martin's repsonse was violence.

Once again, what you do does not matter because you are not Trayvon. You were not their; so do not falsify the story by putting in imaginative scenarios.

reply to post by mee30


So, if we strip everything away, you'll admit that a young man is dead because an overzealous self appointed watchman decided to go above and beyond, ignoring a dispatcher, and taking the situation in his own hands.

That alone requires some form of penance.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by Chalupas
It has happened to me. I went running at midnight (a hobby of mine) and got stopped by a truck that had been following me for half a block. My answer to their question was that I was just running.

Was I scared? Yes

Did I run or attack him? No.

Where you 17 years old? Probably not.

This is a world now that is not like what it was when I was a kid. Every single day you hear stories of freaks and perverts who kidnap kids and even adults (even 17 year old big kids). Tell you what... get in your car today and follow around some 22 year old man. Chances are, someone will call the cops on you. You are now a suspicious vehicle because you (a stranger) is following around another person whom you do not know and they do not know you.

Trayvon had every reason to view Zimmerman as a threat. He tried to flee, Zimmerman followed. It is not hard to see why this young man, being a big guy as he was, would elect to stop running and fight instead.

Actually, I was fifteen! I still kept cool even though this man was obvious well into his 40s or 50s. Could I have run? I had no reason to flee. Would the man follow me? Yes.

Why did Martin flee? Would you not be suspicious if Martin fled?

Here's the facts so far...None of us, including the MSM doesn't know all the facts as yet. That's why Zimmerman has yet to be charged, if even he will be charged at all. An investigation is in progress to reveal those facts. The few facts we have is that 911 was called by Zimmerman, a pursuit and altercation occurred resulting in a fireman discharge resulting in the death of Trayvon.

Each side will spin it subjectively in their point of view.

Wow...I am disgusted...wish I hadn't clicked this thread.

I haven't been in these threads much...because I always thought the controversy was just that Zimmerman hadn't been arrested yet...I never new some very sick people thought that this kid deserved to die.


Unbelievable that people think shooting an unarmed kid after chasing him down is self defense...what kind of moron, or more likely racist, do you have to be to think like this???

Click here for more information.

FRAAAACK!





This topic is really bringing out the WORST in ATS and not only that, it appears to be an organized effort - the same people - ginning up BS and hyperbole to try and stir up racial tensions.

There I said it.

TROOOLLLING

reply to post by Kali74


Opinions don't really matter though do they, I mean what you say is certainly one possibility but I don't think it should be turned into a race thing just out of opinion.

Originally posted by lacrimosa
the result's are what matter's. the process is irrelevant.

Its the process that produces the results...the process matters a great deal.
What you're suggesting sounds a little too Machiavellian. Was that the point? Do you see the dangers in that thinking?