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Vatican exposures: Catholic ATS members? What say you?

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posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by EricD
 


you know the "Truth" it is infallible... they can not touch Jesus only the past atrocity's of people who have used it against a population. (kinda like Islam)




posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Where were your 'years of research' done? The Jack Chick Institute of Anti-Catholicism?

See how you are?

Uhhh, erm...."where were my 'years of research' done"?
THE LIBRARY.
See, what college teaches you is how to learn....how to go to the sources (books, and now internet sites) and find out whatever the heck you want to know.

My 'years of research' were in my home, reading the ACADEMICS, and THEOLOGIANS, and HISTORIANS.

You think you're so "one-up" here?

Have you read The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James?.....
What about A History of God: the 4000 year Quest of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam by Karen Armstrong (herself a former NUN)...
And how about Notovitch? You know who he is?
What of Robert Wright: The Evolution of God.
Or any number of works by Jung, Peck, Thich Nhat Hanh, .......
How about Veronica Franco?
or, or......Taylor Caldwell Dear and Glorious Physician,
or The Monk by Matthew J Lewis...
or....Sarum by Edward Rutherford....

uh, the history of the Catholic Church, the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Middle-Ages....
how dare you imply my "education" is illegitimate?
not to mention intensive study while researching a novel I have competed regarding 17th c England....
Look, FlyersFan, I don't want to be icky about this, but you will not succeed in shooting me down on my knowledge base.

Ugggh, I regret having spent this much time in answering you.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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On the subject of communions, here is a portion of the communion prayer from the Didache:

9:8 As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains and being gathered together became one, so may Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom;

Didache

I suppose this might mean different things to different people, but it's ironic to me that the Church has so frequently divided over abstruse issues of theology or politics and expressed these divisions by refusing to share communion. Communion, which was originally about gathering people together, became a tool for division.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by SisyphusRide

EricD that is the system here... specially dealing with a non-believer.



I'm not entirely sure who qualifies as a "non-believer" here - believing differently doesn't equate to not believing.




the only way to win in a conversation against an atheist word juggler is to ignore their tripe about you and make observations about atheism.


Doesn't a belief in something preclude one from being accused of believing nothing?




when you finish tearing them that new hole don't forget to put (you lose) at the end of your message... that really gets them




I've always preferrred -

"Have a nice day!"





edit on 2012/3/26 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



... a good Catholic would admit his error and apologize
for the false accusations and lies you made against me.

right back atcha...I'm waiting.

Oh, and I thought of another way to answer your attack on 'where' I did my 'years' of research.

I can tell you where they were NOT: at a convent, or a parochial grammar school or university, or a Christian bookstore, or a Roman Catholic Church's library. No.
None of those sources can be considered un-biased. Not ONE of them.
Although, if I could get access to the REAL Roman Catholic library in the Vatican, I bet I could make some REAL trouble

AT THE PUBLIC LIBRARY, for starters. At any secular University's CAMPUS LIBRARY.
AT RETAIL BOOKSELLERS. Those are where I go for selecting quality, resourced work including lengthy bibliographies, indices, and outside OTHER sources and suggested reading lists.

Oh, also Western Civilization class...it was a "pre-req" for Liberal Arts.....World History, Philosophy, Anthropology, Political Science, and on and on were additional course names.

I could also say "in the non-fiction section" of religious studies, but that would be false. There are dozens of books that I have read which are HISTORICAL FICTION and they tell these facts, over and over and over. Movies, documentaries, real snail-mail correspondence courses....
On my personal bookshelf at this very moment, a copy of the Holy Bible stands next to The Ancient and Shining Ones: World Myth, Magic, and Religion (Llewellyn press, by D.J.Conway) -- and encyclopedia of the world's pantheons. On the cover is an artist's rendering of a greco-roman style golden man wielding the sun's rays in his upraised fist.

On the other side of the Bible leans Proud Spirit: Lessons, Insights, and Healing from "The Voice of the Spirit World" by Rosemary Altea (William Morrow, New York). She is pictured squatting in the desert, with an elaborate Native American breast-plate.

A bit further down the shelf is The Tibetan Book of the Dead...The Celtic Book of the Dead...sigh....works on Tao, Zen, a volume by Deepak Chopra....
screw this. I don't owe you a resume or transcript, FlyersFan.

But I don't expect you to really apologize....even if you could bring yourself to type the words, it wouldn't be in your heart...my part of the Holy Spirit knows that. Does yours?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Bravo Flyersfan,

If only wildtimes would read Catholic writing instead of anti-Catholic
writing. One hint, there's a ton more, libraries full.

Oh, I'm sorry! I thought Catholic News Service, and Vatican News Today or whatever the hell they're called WERE pro-Catholic writings....erm, uh, I mean CATHOLIC PROPAGANDA and DISINFORMATION....

If only you all would read non-Catholic versions of HISTORY you would be much more credible. Steering me toward your completely biased, censored, filtered, writings is no different than China monitoring the internet to keep the Western World away from its people. Keep them uninformed, and they'll stay obedient.

Get a grip.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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A year ago I was thinking about converting from Orthodox to Catholic, so I joined some Catholic forums to ask questions. The first forum I joined never replied and censured my question entirely. Then they sent me emails for months asking for donations. (My question regarded intercommunion and I didn't think it was offensive in any way.) The second forum I joined was a little better, but I noticed that there was much more hostility towards me as a non-Catholic than I would have expected.

I don't want to be bashing Catholics, but I feel a bit negative about Catholicism now.
edit on 27-3-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 



A year ago I was thinking about converting from Orthodox to Catholic, so I joined some Catholic forums to ask questions. The first forum I joined never replied and censured my question entirely. Then they sent me emails for months asking for donations. (My question regarded intercommunion and I didn't think it was offensive in any way.)

I appreciate your frustration. Have a look at the Essenes of today:


Today in the United States we no longer need to disguise our Gnostic interests and dedications by locking them behind sealed portals or lodges and temples. Happily we have no need to guard our teachings and practices with passwords and handshakes. Our church is open to all those who wish to avail themselves of our sacramental ministrations, and our teaching ministry offers its instruction to all who wish to receive it. Safeguards and stratagems that were advisable in the 18th Century need no longer form a part of our Gnostic procedures today.

www.gnosis.org... (this one describes the American Ecclestica Gnostica)

and here are a few others (some related of the same site):
www.essene.org...
www.centuryone.org...
www.gnosis.org...

There ya go.
They accept all communicants, with open arms...the excommunicated included....also Wiccans, Protestants, et al....
no division of "doctrinal sects."
Hear, hear!



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe
 


Bravo Flyersfan,

If only wildtimes would read Catholic writing instead of anti-Catholic
writing. One hint, there's a ton more, libraries full.

Oh, I'm sorry! I thought Catholic News Service, and Vatican News Today or whatever the XXX they're called WERE pro-Catholic writings....erm, uh, I mean CATHOLIC PROPAGANDA and DISINFORMATION....

If only you all would read non-Catholic versions of HISTORY you would be much more credible. Steering me toward your completely biased, censored, filtered, writings is no different than China monitoring the internet to keep the Western World away from its people. Keep them uninformed, and they'll stay obedient.

Get a grip.


Your history wildtimes, you post against the faith so search for negative Catholic writings to share or your interpretation of Catholic teaching.

Post somethings positive and you will be believed.

"Vatican sources" does not always come from the Holy Father or can be backed up with the Catechism or Scripture.

Remember, Pope Paul the VI stated "the smoke of Satan has entered the Vatican." We are in the time prophecy states Catholic Truth proclaimed by the Church for 2000 years will be changed. It's demonic, the evil one wants to take down the faith, since there is only one, watch his efforts.


God bless you wildtimes,



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
A year ago I was thinking about converting from Orthodox to Catholic, so I joined some Catholic forums to ask questions. The first forum I joined never replied and censured my question entirely. Then they sent me emails for months asking for donations. (My question regarded intercommunion and I didn't think it was offensive in any way.) The second forum I joined was a little better, but I noticed that there was much more hostility towards me as a non-Catholic than I would have expected.

I don't want to be bashing Catholics, but I feel a bit negative about Catholicism now.
edit on 27-3-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)


cloudyday,

I am sorry for what happened to you on those forums. People have a fallen nature. God is directing you to the true faith.

He wants us all to believe the same. Remember Our Lord's prayer.


colbe



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


There's just no way to discuss with you, colbe.
No way.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't read 'Catholic' sources. Anyway, FlyersFan has pretty much debunked all of your 'sources' as being authentic RCC offerings.

Like you told me:
give it up. Find another obsession.

Pray for me if you like....but you'll never recruit me to your brand of crazy-talk.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by colbe
 


You seem to have an odd definition of "high regard" if it requires worship.

I do not "doubt" the apparitions of Mary, I flat out disbelieve in them. That doesn't mean I'm "anti-Mary", it means that I do not place her in a position of worship.

You will have to define for me what YOU mean by "the remnant" - it appears we are not on the same page. It could be that we are operating in entirely different eschatological frameworks. I'm not sure how the Final Judgement figures into your definition of "remnant".

You stated that Matthew 24:40-41 applied to DEATH, not "Final Judgement". Now you seem to be changing that up, so I need your working definition of those terms before I can unravel what you are saying.

The messages from Heaven are all recorded in the Bible, so I can expect a scripture reference for the claim that "Jesus is going to reveal to the entire world the Eucharist is true" - i.e. at some future point from now.



neno,

Thank you for your reply style here, I can reply to a little bit at a time.

If I tell you a thousand times Catholics do not worship Mary, you will say the same. It's going to take God to show our brothers and sisters in Christ who Mary is and her place in our redemption. She has an important place. You cannot help what you've been fed for years. Be open to a change of heart about Mary neno.

The "remnant" are the faithful who survive the Great Tribulation, the Chastisement and enter the 7th Day, the millennial reign of Christ.

I didn't change a thing I said about those two verses Matt 24:40-41. They refer to a person's death not the Rapture. I'll post a prophecy where God explains those two verses but important, you have to believe in the prophetic, I think you do. Prophecy makes "explict" what is written in the Bible and in the Oral Tradition.

Much of the world rejects the Real Presence, the Eucharist so in the Great Warning, God is going to reveal the Eucharist is true. Read Revelation 6:12-17, this is reference to the Great Warning. All of us, mankind will wish to hide, the rocks fall on us when we see our souls as God sees our soul. Pray and confess your mortal sins now with true repentance. You will not feel the "pain" of seeing "CONFESSED" sins in your life review during the Great Warning. Prophecy has revealed this
fact. God is merciful.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe
 


There's just no way to discuss with you, colbe.
No way.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't read 'Catholic' sources. Anyway, FlyersFan has pretty much debunked all of your 'sources' as being authentic RCC offerings.

Like you told me:
give it up. Find another obsession.

Pray for me if you like....but you'll never recruit me to your brand of crazy-talk.


Sorry, you're wrong, I wish you to become Catholic. That's not an
obsession. And I defend the faith, Catholics are going to reply to debunk the falsehoods. Flyersfan and Eric are examples of wonderful apologists
on the forum.

You're interested, your read them. Your reply about Flyersfan. She
cannot answer to why the messages of Divine Mercy speak of Garabandal's repeated prophetic revelation about the Great Warning.
Divine Mercy is approved by the Church. We actually have a feast
day to celebrate Our Lord's divine mercy as revealed to St. Faustina.


I love you sister,


colbe



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
...
They accept all communicants, with open arms...the excommunicated included....also Wiccans, Protestants, et al....
no division of "doctrinal sects."
...


And in my opinion, it isn't the Church that does the accepting; it is Jesus and he would never exclude anybody.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 


Feel free to pm me with any questions. If I don't know the answers, I'd be happy to point you to someone that would.

Eric



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



Your reply about Flyersfan. She cannot answer to why the messages of Divine Mercy speak of Garabandal's repeated prophetic revelation about the Great Warning. Divine Mercy is approved by the Church.

erm,.... coble, according to her (a former 3rd degree Carmelite).....(which is a nun, in case you are unaware)......
your sources are NOT approved by the RCC.

And, she has provided more credibility than you have.

Dude. Seriously?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



you post against the faith so search for negative Catholic writings to share or your interpretation of Catholic teaching.

Post somethings positive and you will be believed.

"Vatican sources" does not always come from the Holy Father or can be backed up with the Catechism or Scripture.

Remember, Pope Paul the VI stated "the smoke of Satan has entered the Vatican."

REAlly!
So, then, the pro-Catholic sources that I have looked at...aren't really pro-Catholic sources? You're now saying that the Vatican "herself"
is wrong?

colbe. Look, I don't wish you harm, but you are having a hard time tracking. You seem to be privy (or party) to a new, offshot, very weird 'sect' of the RCC. Which is it?

You support pro-Catholic sites, but they are 'Satan'? The RCC has denounced the Garabaggaboo thing, but they are wrong?

I'm trying, colbe, I really am. I....just....I don't get what the hell you're talking about.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 



And in my opinion, it isn't the Church that does the accepting; it is Jesus and he would never exclude anybody.

Correct.
He would not...ever.
Never.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe
 



you post against the faith so search for negative Catholic writings to share or your interpretation of Catholic teaching.

Post somethings positive and you will be believed.

"Vatican sources" does not always come from the Holy Father or can be backed up with the Catechism or Scripture.

Remember, Pope Paul the VI stated "the smoke of Satan has entered the Vatican."

REAlly!
So, then, the pro-Catholic sources that I have looked at...aren't really pro-Catholic sources? You're now saying that the Vatican "herself"
is wrong?

colbe. Look, I don't wish you harm, but you are having a hard time tracking. You seem to be privy (or party) to a new, offshot, very weird 'sect' of the RCC. Which is it?

You support pro-Catholic sites, but they are 'Satan'? The RCC has denounced the Garabaggaboo thing, but they are wrong?

I'm trying, colbe, I really am. I....just....I don't get what the hell you're talking about.


wildtimes,

I'll say it again. Try to see, the Divine Mercy revelations given by Our Lord to St. Faustina of Poland speak of the Great Warning, a major revelation to the messengers of Garabandal.

You started this anti-Catholic thread. You're not Catholic, I ask, do you
know what you are talking about? No. Why don't you look into
what you reject. The teachings of the faith are the same as Christ's teachings.

And is everything spoken or written true? No. This will help you
understand. Pray for discernment.

Your vulgar words don't help make your point, just the opposite.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe
 



Your reply about Flyersfan. She cannot answer to why the messages of Divine Mercy speak of Garabandal's repeated prophetic revelation about the Great Warning. Divine Mercy is approved by the Church.

erm,.... coble, according to her (a former 3rd degree Carmelite).....(which is a nun, in case you are unaware)......
your sources are NOT approved by the RCC.

And, she has provided more credibility than you have.

Dude. Seriously?


I just saw your reply here. It's kinda funny you defending Flyersfan on her rejection of some private revelation. That's fine. She can but she has also called you on your anti-Catholicism.



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