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Vatican exposures: Catholic ATS members? What say you?

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posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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btw I am so sorry those Catholics tried to enslave you with the knowledge that could set you free... they did it to my ancestors too and they jumped ship and settled America. They took this knowledge that made them free and even used its ideals to found a nation, a nation which has been more successful than any other before it with its accomplishments.

I am so sorry you are mad at religion, but why take one rogue group and pin their actions on all the rest of the Christendom? Could the Christian be guilty now of thinking every atheist is Jeffrey Dahmer?

heck no wonder no one like atheist! I don't think they have done any good?




posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


What’s the problem?
I’m just trying to find out how many people Christians can kill/maim/torture before it is considered to many

Here are some jolly pictures of religious people explaining the benefits of accepting the belief in Christianity – the main benefit being that the none believer wont have to be killed/maimed/tortured any more

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

edit on 26-3-2012 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


What’s the problem?
I’m just trying to find out how many people Christians can kill/maim/torture before it is considered to many

Here are some jolly pictures of religious people explaining why people should believe in christianity
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...


did they eat the babies like the Atheist?

I know there are some atheist who actually idolize Jeffrey Dahmer, alot of them think serial killers are cool trust me I grew up in the godless click.
edit on 26-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...

executions resulted in the deaths of approximately 21% of the Cambodian population

if all we are doing is counting the number of dead here... then 2 million deaths takes the darn cake bro sorry...



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


What’s the problem?
I’m just trying to find out how many people Christians can kill/maim/torture before it is considered to many


you are a sick man, I would seek professional attention before you act on your own morbid fantasy and go killing maiming and torturing.

it's all you seem to keep talking about besides invisible friends

edit on 26-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 


You seem to have an odd definition of "high regard" if it requires worship.

I do not "doubt" the apparitions of Mary, I flat out disbelieve in them. That doesn't mean I'm "anti-Mary", it means that I do not place her in a position of worship.

You will have to define for me what YOU mean by "the remnant" - it appears we are not on the same page. It could be that we are operating in entirely different eschatological frameworks. I'm not sure how the Final Judgement figures into your definition of "remnant".

You stated that Matthew 24:40-41 applied to DEATH, not "Final Judgement". Now you seem to be changing that up, so I need your working definition of those terms before I can unravel what you are saying.

The messages from Heaven are all recorded in the Bible, so I can expect a scripture reference for the claim that "Jesus is going to reveal to the entire world the Eucharist is true" - i.e. at some future point from now.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by colbe

I am smiling, you say "untrue", asking for Scriptural confirmation neno because you reject the authority of the Church who gave you your Bible. You accept a man's heresy, Sola Scriptura, then it's true, asking where are the words RCC in Scripture?

See how ridiculous....


I reject the authority of the Roman Catholic Church, but I do not reject the authority of the source of the Bible.

I reject the notion that the Roman Catholic Church is the Church spoken of in the Bible, and have yet to see anyone offer evidence to the contrary.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


I maintain that God is omnipotent, and therefore there is NOTHING he cannot do as far as I'm concerned. It appears that you are the one attempting to place constraints on Him by telling me that he "can't" communicate plainly with me.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by "the remnant", and so cannot address that portion.

To which "Protestant prophecies" are you referring when you say that God is trying to nudge people away from those "prophets" and into the Roman Catholic Church? I don't know any Protestant Prophets, and have not heard any of those alleged "prophecies".

What is "the great warning", and what is the authority behind it's existence? Where does it say that a "Great Warning" is coming?


edit on 2012/3/26 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by EricD
 


Okay, you know what?
I provided evidence of ENOUGH killings, in a list that is INCOMPLETE, that it is asinine to try to deflect the POINT, which is that many, many, many, many people have been killed, OR had their lives crippled in one way or another, by the Catholic Church.

The more you try to shoot me down in stating this FACT, the more I consider the current Catholics to be damaged as well.

People who talk about "straw men" and "red herrings" are more interested in winning an argument than they are in addressing the FACTS. I know how social cults work; and I know how people can be manipulated into miserable existences. "Straw men" and "red herrings" are NOT psychological terms; I am no politician, and I am no debate master. The allegation means nothing to me. The corruption of the RCC means a lot, and none of it is good.

So, when you say those things to me it only makes me scratch my head, and I am SO annoyed by this evasive attempt to discredit the FACT that I am pointing out

(x number of lives ruined by the RCC, where x>0),

that I am stubbornly REFUSING to even look up the silly terms again. Oh, I've read them, the "20 tips for persuasive argument" or whatever the hell you want to focus on. They are certainly NOT something I would do deliberately, I don't know one from the other, or where in my postings you are seeing it.

So stop accusing me of that and make your point.

Just because I used a big number to make my point does not NEGATE the point (and as I said, the more Catholics protest these FACTS, the more I consider them to be VICTIMS....which EASILY reaches into the 10s of millions....). .AND, since you hve no way to dispute the FACTS nor justify them, you are deflecting into some sort of debate rhetoric games that prove nothing..

The RCC has brainwashed every one of you. Living, dead, old, young, martyred, ordained, abused, afraid, judging, worrying, imposing your values on others....cow-towing to some phony bunch of malarky that they made up to TRICK people. Those men are no "specialer" than you or me, they are perpetuating LIES, and keeping people TERRIFIED enough to continue to buy the LIES.

In fact, if their own Big Kahuna, who is supposed to represent God himself (right?) is UNAWARE of what is going on within his own COACHES' offices, then he's not very good at being God, is he? Hmmm. NOR very good at protecting his "sheep" (their term).

You say I'm using a straw man, or a red herring?

I say you're behaving as though you have an Aspergers spectrum thought disorder....but then, I guess you'd have to if you want to insist that Bible is the word of God.

The BIBLE ITSELF is FULL of hyperbole. Metaphors, myths made from facts, exaggerations, symbolism, etc. Maybe that's the difference. Some people just aren't hardwired to think past the literal words used....

Eric, I can't really determine why you're here to begin with. If you are not Catholic and just trolling for the sake of debate, kindly step out of the thread.

My question is:

"How can Catholics remain true to the 'faith' when they KNOW what it is doing?"

Apparently, it's by:

Being disgusted and feeling horrible about it (according to sad-eyed-lady, and thank you to her again for her reasonable contribution) but hoping it will change;

OR by doing some semantic song and dance to try to gloss it over,

OR by having very poor critical thinking skills,

OR by being so gullible and weak of character that you'll do whatever someone else tells you to do, even at the expense of your own well-being

OR out of blind and deliberate ignorance of history

OR by having some kind of mental disorder related to delusion.

Guess I should have made it a multiple-choice question.
edit on 26-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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I am just not interested anymore unless it involves cannibalization really...

I mean the shock factor of everything else is just numbing anymore.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by racasan
 



(self) educated you think you are are then highly suspect and unreliable.

Thanks, racasan.

I'm getting tired of posting the same stuff. If they don't know it happened now, or choose to ignore it, it's not for lack of exposure to the facts.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

I already did. Matthew 16:18-19. Christ Himself appoints Peter the head of HIS Church. Whatever he says .. goes on both earth and in heaven. Then in ACTS there is apostolic succession. The headship of the church CHRIST started continues. That church is the CATHOLIC CHURCH with an unbroken line of apostolic succession ... goes back to Christ Himself.


I can accept that you believe that it somehow refers to the Roman catholic Church, just as I have to accept that there are Baptists who believe they have an unbroken line back to John the Baptist.

I accept that you believe it, but I do not accept it for Truth. That teaching comes from the RCC itself, and of course they will paint themselves in the best light they can. It's a sort of circular argument - the RCC says it is the only true Church because it says it is the only true Church. It is not Scripturally backed - it is backed by the Pope.



We jail them when we catch them, rather than just shuffling them around to a new hunting ground.

And those FEW that were involved should be jailed. But again .. it doesn't change the FAITH ... it doesn't change the beliefs of the church that Christ rose from the dead ... the belief in the Eucharist ... the belief in the Communion of Saints .. etc


It changes the Church hierarchy - not necessarily the beliefs of the individual. I will not ally myself with any church - Catholic, Protestant or any other - who protects child molesters and gives them fresh hunting grounds to prowl rather than jailing or excommunicating them at the very least. Yes, it does happen in Protestant churches as well, but the offenders are not protected, they are punished.



Originally posted by nenothtu
There was no mention of a "Roman Catholic Church" at the Last Supper -

You didn't just say that did you? Yes? My god you are silly.

Again ... Christ appointed Peter as head of His church. Whatever Peter says .. goes. At the last supper Christ gave the commandment 'do this in memory of me' .. he ordained his first priests. PETER, the head of Christ's church, in ACTS decided on apostolic succession. You don't like it? Take it up with Christ. He set this all in motion.


Yes, I said it, and I said it right out loud. I stand by it. I can read as well as anyone, and it's not in there.


ETA -

Originally posted by nenothtu
Yes, I'm "anti-Mary" in the sense that the Catholic Church is promoting her. She is Mary, mother of Jesus, and to be held in high regard on that account, but NOT elevated to godhood herself.

Catholics do NOT elevate Mary to the godhead.
Read and learn , young grasshopper.



Do they pray to other non-gods as well, and expect them to appear to them? I hear they do, but you wouild know better than I if there are others, or it's just Mary.

I do thank you for the compliment of calling me "young" grasshopper, though - I've not been referred to as "young" in years! It almost put a spring in my step!



edit on 2012/3/26 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



So how do you justify paying taxes to keep the public schools going and how do you justify supporting protestant churches?


Because if I don't pay my taxes, I go to JAIL. I support home-schooling anyway. When public school offenders are exposed, they GO TO JAIL. They don't get transferred to another district....

and I DO NOT support protestant churches.

I support NO churches, but from what I've studied, learned, and been taught by experts, the Essene church (of the Abrahamic protestant religions) would probably be closest to acceptable in terms of "classical" Catholicism. Or maybe the Unitarians.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


you are welcome but I was asking a genuine question

But I suspect all I will get in reply is to be told about some horrors from history that cannot be linked to the church in an effort to try and make the RCCs track record look a little less crazy and blood soaked



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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listen closely...


the monster of the Andes walk free too, there is only a max 20 years sentence in south America.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Issei Sagawa is a role model and a celebrity... totally eating this crap up in Japan.

his porn movies and books about the murder actually sell.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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When a religion convinces its members that they can't go anywhere else, then the religious leaders can get away with anything. That's what makes things like Catholicism and Orthodoxy so prone to corruption.

It's interesting that religious ideas and government ideas seem to be connected. Protestantism has flourished in democratic countries while Catholicism and Orthodoxy have flourished in monarchies.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

People who talk about "straw men" and "red herrings" are more interested in winning an argument than they are in addressing the FACTS. I know how social cults work; and I know how people can be manipulated into miserable existences. "Straw men" and "red herrings" are NOT psychological terms; I am no politician, and I am no debate master. The allegation means nothing to me. The corruption of the RCC means a lot, and none of it is good.

So, when you say those things to me it only makes me scratch my head, and I am SO annoyed by this evasive attempt to discredit the FACT that I am pointing out


At this point I'm going to stop assuming that you are debating in good faith and you actually are aware of what you are doing and are doing it deliberately.

You have ascribed motives and beliefs to me that I don't have and never alluded to having and when I call you out on it you take offense and go off about the term of 'straw man'.

It's intellectually dishonest and it's an attempt to win 'points' by assailing what others don't actually believe. I'm sorry if pointing that out bothers you.

BTW, you may have noticed that I disagree with Colbe and I clearly believe that the Church hierarchy has been complicit in atrocities. I've mentioned Torquemada more than once in this thread.

Eric



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by EricD
 



At this point I'm going to stop assuming that you are debating in good faith

Good faith? You're going to STOP assuming I am debating in good faith? I am not at a college or high-school or wanna-be-POTUS "debate."

Nono, I am here "presenting" and "discussing" and "questioning"... in very good faith that there is still time for the human race to get its ducks in a row......
.
in faith (absolute certainty) of the fact that Jesus taught humility, acceptance, reincarnation, kindness, non-retaliation, and benevolence... AND the fact that he was referring, during his ministry, to the infighting among the ISRAELI tribes.

He did not forbid ANYONE from joining in "communion" with him -- in fact encouraged prayer in solitude (rather than broadcast and public-eye mode)...and said "do this (EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE) in remembrance of me".
As in:
"Let's say"....or "Pretend that"...or "Imagine" ..... "that this is my body which is given to you....etc....this is my blood....do this (eat a bite of bread and take a sip of wine) when you come together in remembrance of me." (Or some such instruction, and no, I will not provide Ch and V. But...) I took communion every Sunday for 16 years. I watched my mother lean her head almost to the top edge of the pew in front of ours.....I know the Nicene Creed by heart; just as well as I know the Eucharist.

Anyone who, in his name, takes a wafer or a chunk of bread, and has a sip of wine, while they are remembering Jesus and his teachings is "taking" (or 'making') Communion.

What I am doing "deliberately" is attempting to wake up the people who are -- in my estimation -- needing to wake up....

Fine, EricD, you're a Catholic (I see established now)....and apparently one of those who tend to gloss over the problem with debate techniques. ..... The facts are on the ground. No amount of "herring-man red straws" are going to change that.

Peace
edit on 26-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by EricD
 


EricD that is the system here... specially dealing with a non-believer.

I get much more interesting discussions elsewhere, I am usually here in the pit because I like to slamdance and stage dive.

the only way to win in a conversation against an atheist word juggler is to ignore their tripe about you and make observations about atheism.

when you finish tearing them that new hole don't forget to put (you lose) at the end of your message... that really gets them


I miss MIMS!




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