Vegetarians vs. meat-eaters: Standoff is over

I happened upon an article this morning (before I noticed this thread on ATS actually) about the increased availability of meat substitutes in today's markets. (the link to the article is below if you care to read it) Anyhow, within this article was a link to a video that exposed all the atrocities and cruelty that happens when pigs, poultry, cattle, and fish are slaughtered. I'm sure this video has been discussed at length here on ATS, but it was new to me. At any rate, I went to the refrigerator I have here at work and immediately threw away my chicken I brought for lunch.

After seeing this video, I think there is some real merit to trying to either be vegetarian, or at the very least attempting to consume only organic or free range meat products. I've always enjoyed buying meatless products such as Boca burgers, chick'n patties, etc. not because I wanted to be a vegetarian, but just in an effort to be healthier and reduce calories.

That's just my two cents, but at the end of the day it's a personal choice and there will always be enough demand for cheap meat. Because of this demand, the unethical and inhumane practices will continue for some of the low-cost producers. I believe those who try to eliminate meat production all together or vilify those who choose to eat meat are fighting a losing battle.

VB
www.npr.org...

Am I the only one who eats red meat, likes it, and while doing it is not thinking about the slaughterhouse?

Cause... if you think like that, maybe when you're typing or looking at your computer screen, or while using your cellphones or while dressing any type of clothing you should to think about all those 6 year old kids somewhere in asia working for a bubblegum or 5 dollars a week working 13 or 15 hours a day...

Now if I know that this awesome steak came from a cow somewhere... yes, but I still dont think about the slaughterhouse, and by that same logic I dont think of the kids in asia while I'm using my android.

For good or bad, coherence is your friend.



EDIT: Stupid spelling...

reply to post by jrod


This is the thing though. Eagles don't round up and imprison the animals they eat. They just hunt and kill them.

Eating meat isn't "good or "bad." Even if we put aside the negative environmental impact of the meat industry which are numerous, perpetuating suffering for animals with every capacity for fear and pain that we have, when there is a healthy viable alternative, simply because meat is delicious is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Am I the only one who eats red meat, likes it, and while doing it is not thinking about the slaughterhouse?

You're not alone.

I enjoy salads too, but you'll never find me passing on a fat, juicy steak. Color me a carnivore. I just am.

reply to post by popsmayhem


You can support the right for a woman to choose what happens to her own body and think meat is murder. I don't see the logical contradiction.

You would say killing is killing, But there a lot more issues with abortion and meat than just killing.

I don't think meat is murder for the record.

reply to post by voyagerboy


Even as a veggie,I am repulsed by these "meat substitute" alternatives-They are probably at least as bad as processed meats,as most are based on the soya bean.
That bean is the most GMO messed with bean on the planet,and even in its organic state is recognised by the human body as a "pseudo oestrogen"
The body thinks its the girl hormone essentially.
Check it out on google..
That alone can cause problems in Men and Women.
Add the GMO factor,for more unknown side effects..
Not for me thanks.

Fresh veg,pulses,salads, with houmous/tahini/nuts and certain beans for protein.
Home made brown bread is a good one as well,as they put nasties in some bread,white in particular.

But hey,I am only going by my own experience here-
If you want to eat animals,go for it.

reply to post by Buddha1098


Valid point.

Livestock and the slaughter industry is too big of a business to ever be shut down, regardless of how inhumane their practice is. If I had the choice I would only eat meat that I (or a friend killed) hunting. Unfortunately that is not an option given the raping of land and it's resources that has happened thanks to the advancement of civilization. Also the hormones and anti-biotics given to livestock is a valid reason to avoid processed meat.

However the pesticides, fertilizer and other stuff added to crops on the industrial level is a reason to avoid most produce, especially the ones found at chain grocery stores.

Its probably important to understand where the modern vegan/veg diet in america came from.It is a practice that was given to the underlings in occult secret societies. This sole purpose was to keep the body, mind and spiritual powers being developed, in a weakend state.Yet the high council and grand master always continued to eat meat in private, though only in modest balanced meals.

With this practice, no up and comers would ever have the chance to topple leadership and take control.

If you really dig long enough you will find occult references at around 1910-1920 or so.

That is the real deal truth.

reply to post by jrod


Yeah that is part of the debate I'll have with fundamentalist vegans who have no problem eating conventional produce from Chile in the middle of winter yet judge those who eat any sort of meat or animal product.

I eat meat

I enjoy the consumption of flesh.

I dont care what you eat

Leave my right to eat alone.

Eating raw vegitables and fruit is far more dangerous
then eating cooked meat..

vegitables and fruits kill people all the time
www.cbsnews.com...

look at these death outbreaks from lettuce to cantelope

Originally posted by EvolEric
I eat meat

I enjoy the consumption of flesh.

I dont care what you eat

Leave my right to eat alone.

Go for it dude,
I like the occasional cigarette,I know its bad for me but I accept that and enjoy it anyway.
Or Cakes,they are bad for you too,but I still eat some..

I am a veggie for my own reasons,but I would never tell others what I think they should eat,or try to inflict my reasons on them.
So eat whatever you are happy to eat.

Eating meat in my opinion is an act of bullying against animals. It is puts a big strain on our biosphere. We can feed a lot more people with less land on vegetables...

Maybe one day you will get labels on meat products like you do on cigarettes... Warning may cause cancer..

Sounds like you're voulenteering to buy land, farm a trillion metric tons of veggies for EVERYONE to eat.... Far shot from reality though...

And yeah, maybe oneday your car will have a label on it saying it too, can cause cancer. While we're at it, lets label everything as potential cancer inducing/life expectancy reducing: nuclear plants, fossil fuels, make-up the ladies wear, meat in general, the toilet paper you wipe with, the Sun and distant stars... I could go on with the amount of stuff we "should label as dangerous to humans" ...Is this necessary, or fair, to single out meat only?

This thread is missing one thing: A passage from the bible...

Originally posted by purplemer

Until recently, due to the lack of quality statistical studies, too great of a role in the great debate between vegetarians and meat eaters was played by a rhetorical component. A large-scale study involving 120,000 people showed that consumption of red meat significantly reduces life expectancy. The position of v

www.trueactivist.com...

Studies like this are well overdue. It has long been the common consensus among vegetarians that its more healthy not to eat meat but evidence was scant.

Eating meat in my opinion is an act of bullying against animals. It is puts a big strain on our biosphere. We can feed a lot more people with less land on vegetables...

Maybe one day you will get labels on meat products like you do on cigarettes... Warning may cause cancer..

Yes that is wonderful a study of 120000 people, like cigarettes cause cancer yet many live over 70 years old.

What else did these red meat eaters do that the vegs not do. May be the red meat eaters were people who actually worked a hard life as they have a better protein intake to sustain real work

Originally posted by purplemer

Until recently, due to the lack of quality statistical studies, too great of a role in the great debate between vegetarians and meat eaters was played by a rhetorical component. A large-scale study involving 120,000 people showed that consumption of red meat significantly reduces life expectancy. The position of v

www.trueactivist.com...

Studies like this are well overdue. It has long been the common consensus among vegetarians that its more healthy not to eat meat but evidence was scant.

Eating meat in my opinion is an act of bullying against animals. It is puts a big strain on our biosphere. We can feed a lot more people with less land on vegetables...

Maybe one day you will get labels on meat products like you do on cigarettes... Warning may cause cancer..

Note that it say RED MEAT!!!

Its all about moderation people too much of anything in abundance will lead to a shorter lifespan. It should be 50/50 for optimal nutrition intake.

There's a big difference between red meat and just meat in general.

Eating meat is a way of life for our closest living relatives. No, it should definitely not be the main staple in one's diet, but it does have a place.

I have eyes at the front of my skull; I eat animals who have theirs on each side.

Omnivore FTW!

No surprise, its always a good idea to minimize animals and consume plants.

one minor issue
animals are tasty.

we are ultimately advanced omnivores...but frankly, if we found a way to absorb sunshine and it was amazingly tasty...we would do that also...even though we are not designed naturally to do so.

Finally, our body is not designed to be sitting as much as we do normally...or sleeping on beds, flying, etc...so making the case of biology not showing necessity is fail.

The moment they make cheap fake meat that doesn't cause mega-cancer after a few trials and tastes/feels exactly like its mimicked meat..I will gladly kick the real meat products for my standard diet...frankly, I would much rather be eating a beef flavored tofo burger that I can't tell the difference of.

reply to post by purplemer


The moral argument on eating meat is just old and tired. We need to be taking better care of the animals we slaughter, this should have been a first step. The way these animals live is disgusting and the process should have been revised a long time ago.

Now, when I had chickens, I loved my chickens. I was very sad when foxes, turkey vultures, possums, raccoons, and mountain lions killed and ate them all. --- Not only were they cute and funny little birds, but their EGGS TASTED GREAT.

Meat is good for you, but I try to only eat it every once in a while. And when I do I buy the best quality meat available - and I really enjoy a beautiful piece of Trip-tip or some pancetta pasta.

But I would gladly stop eating meat if it meant we could clean up our act - and the way we consume these animals.

The native Americans, --- hell my even Grandpa --- back in the day meat was a necessary staple to survive and get the protein needed to survive. Like the Cherokee, my grandpa's philosophy was to treat all wildlife with respect - and when it was time to put a bullet in the head of an animal, you made sure that it was appreciated.