Those without Christ are demon possessed.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Why do we need to acknowledge him? Why do we need to believe? How does it change anything when we don't do either?

Because without him you stay dead forever. He is the Resurrection. He's the only loophole out of what Atheists call oblivion. When you die it's lights out forever, unless you have him and then you have the hope you will not stay in the grave forever.

The truth is there is no hope without him. We all are walking dead men, our bodies have just not caught up to that fact yet. Christians know that he is real and that he exists because when he resurrected, the dead in Jerusalem woke up and their families saw them and spoke to them.

Despite what many people would lead you to believe the bible is not just some bedouin's B.S. campfire stories, the historical value is true and biblical archeaologists are working hard to deliver that proof. Take a look at this, courtesy of my brother Notuyourtypical:



If this much is true, think of how much else is? Even an Atheist Archeaologist had to convert when he had the evidence staring him in the face.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Because without him you stay dead forever. He is the Resurrection. He's the only loophole out of what Atheists call oblivion. When you die it's lights out forever, unless you have him and then you have the hope you will not stay in the grave forever.

I don't remember anything before I was born, and I'm ok. I will be ok not knowing anything after I die as well.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Because without him you stay dead forever. He is the Resurrection.

Please explain the word you said: "Resurrection."
If you mean something like rising from the grave, you are way behind. We are all Immortal, friend. Yep, live forever, for we all are Pure, Divine Spirits. How come you depend on a dead man for your salvation? Ever think perhaps, may have to do this myself? Well, that thought came to me a rather long time ago.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Why do we need to acknowledge him? Why do we need to believe? How does it change anything when we don't do either?

Because without him you stay dead forever. He is the Resurrection. He's the only loophole out of what Atheists call oblivion. When you die it's lights out forever, unless you have him and then you have the hope you will not stay in the grave forever.

The truth is there is no hope without him. We all are walking dead men, our bodies have just not caught up to that fact yet. Christians know that he is real and that he exists because when he resurrected, the dead in Jerusalem woke up and their families saw them and spoke to them.

So it sounds like what you're saying is, he set it up so that we would desperately need him in order to avoid oblivion. Why would he set it up like that? If he is real, then it doesn't matter whether we believe in him or not. There will never be oblivion, because he's there, regardless of what we believe.

This whole "believe and worship, or face oblivion" sounds like a fear tactic to me. What kind of a loving god would do that?

I'm an agnostic, by the way - not an atheist. If I were going to believe in a god, it would be a god who allows us to make any and all mistakes, including the mistake of not believing. It would be a god who doesn't require us to search outside of ourselves for our salvation, because every one of us is one with God, and we will always be one with God, no matter what we do in this life.

reply to post by kaylaluv

So it sounds like what you're saying is, he set it up so that we would desperately need him in order to avoid oblivion.

Like i said before i was agnostic too. He didn't set this up so that we would need him for anything, man was created to be eternal, but because he loved his greatest creation, he gave him the power of choice.

He didn't set it up but he allowed it to happen because he made what's called the "free will" covenant with man. He can't get involved or he breaks his own covenant and a righteous God cannot and will not lie or break his word, so he sits back and waits until the time is right which is why you see evil overrunning the world. He is allowing Satan to collect those who would follow him, while he collects those who follow him in contrast. Man chose Satan, so God sent his Glory here to give man a way out of Eternal Death, that way is who we call Jesus (Yeshua/Yahshua).

If you really want to learn and to truly know, pray and ask Jesus to show you, if you don't know and want to know this is the only way. The bible wasn't made for nonbelievers, so you may not even understand much of what you read because the book was written by prophets and prophetic language is not like what you and i speak. Prophetic languages words have different meanings which only the Holy Spirit can give you understanding of.

Great..... Yet another hate thread debacle.

When on when OP will you realise that you are doing absolutely nothing to advance the cause of Christianity?

The last thing a person who is not Christian wants to hear is 'you are demon posessed and it's off to hell with you'
It is this kind of garbage that is causing people to turn their back on the church in their droves you know........

May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be upon you and may the Holy Spirit open your eyes to the gentle loving and accepting nature of our faith. May God compel you to share a message of hope, not of hate from this day forward. I ask this in the name of Jesus Christ, our only Lord and saviour. Amen.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
If I were going to believe in a god, it would be a god who allows us to make any and all mistakes, including the mistake of not believing. It would be a god who doesn't require us to search outside of ourselves for our salvation, because every one of us is one with God, and we will always be one with God, no matter what we do in this life.

Ha, this is how I feel too. There shouldn't be anything we could do that would cause this god to want to punish us forever, if he truly loves us unconditionally. But the biblical god seems to have conditions for his love...

What about all those religions before Christianity? they still have close to 1.5 Billion members, /points at India.

Originally posted by luciddream
What about all those religions before Christianity? they still have close to 1.5 Billion members, /points at India.

They good sir worship over 300 million demons.

Originally posted by PharohGnosis

Originally posted by luciddream
What about all those religions before Christianity? they still have close to 1.5 Billion members, /points at India.

They good sir worship over 300 million demons.

And yet your god never bothered to tell them, he just sat back passively and let all these people be condemned for an act they could not have even known was wrong -- after all this was before Jesus. And where to you get this number of 300 million.?

Originally posted by metamagic

Originally posted by PharohGnosis

Originally posted by luciddream
What about all those religions before Christianity? they still have close to 1.5 Billion members, /points at India.

They good sir worship over 300 million demons.

And yet your god never bothered to tell them, he just sat back passively and let all these people be condemned for an act they could not have even known was wrong -- after all this was before Jesus. And where to you get this number of 300 million.?

Here on the over 300 million Hindu 'deities' www.himalayanacademy.com...

Thomas the Apostle went to India to spread the Gospel en.wikipedia.org... they've had plenty of chances to accept Jesus Christ but instead reject his Salvation to worship demons.

reply to post by metamagic

And yet your god never bothered to tell them, he just sat back passively and let all these people be condemned for an act they could not have even known was wrong -- after all this was before Jesus. And where to you get this number of 300 million.?

Noah and his sons and their wives all had a monopoly on the truth when they set foot off that ark. If there are unbelievers today then somewhere a son didn't follow the instruction from his mother and father.

Originally posted by PharohGnosis

Originally posted by metamagic

Originally posted by PharohGnosis

Originally posted by luciddream
What about all those religions before Christianity? they still have close to 1.5 Billion members, /points at India.

They good sir worship over 300 million demons.

And yet your god never bothered to tell them, he just sat back passively and let all these people be condemned for an act they could not have even known was wrong -- after all this was before Jesus. And where to you get this number of 300 million.?

Here on the over 300 million Hindu 'deities' www.himalayanacademy.com...

Thomas the Apostle went to India to spread the Gospel en.wikipedia.org... they've had plenty of chances to accept Jesus Christ but instead reject his Salvation to worship demons.

You are trying to avoid answering the question. There were millions of Hindus, Jews and others before the birth of Christ. By your own words, every single person before the birth of Christ will go to hell..

Originally posted by PharohGnosis

If people haven't heard the Gospel they are doomed to Hell, it's a Christian's responsibility to spread the Gospel, even Christ said to spread it to all the world. If you don't spread the Good News you are guilty of sending people to Hell!

Jesus said no one can see the Kingdom of God unless they are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. If a baby dies, he goes to Hell because he hasn't had the chance to accept Christ and be baptized. Same goes for children that haven't heard the Gospel. A child has to accept Christ and be baptized just like everyone else. EVERYONE young and old who hasn't heard the Gospel or rejects it will be cast into the lake of fire!

So why did your god create all these people who, before the gospel existed, were to be condemned to eternal torment without ever being given the chance to accept Jesus? Moses, Abraham, David.. if we are to believe your words are now writing in hell in unending torment. As are all of god's chosen people. This is a loving god?

reply to post by metamagic


Yes they went to Hell but you seem to forget after Christ died on the Cross he descended into Hell and freed those who'd believe in Him. Anyone else that fails to accept him after his resurrection is doomed to Hell as there is no other way to Heaven except through Him.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.-John 14:6

No other religion can save you, only Jesus Christ can.

Originally posted by PharohGnosis
reply to post by metamagic

 

Yes they went to Hell but you seem to forget after Christ died on the Cross he descended into Hell and freed those who'd believe in Him. Anyone else that fails to accept him after his resurrection is doomed to Hell as there is no other way to Heaven except through Him.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.-John 14:6

No other religion can save you, only Jesus Christ can.

Really? And you that Jesus went to hell and offered a get out of jail free card to everyone there? And how do you know this. It also creates a bit of a problem since according to what you say:

(1) According to you anyone who does not accept Jesus goes to hell where they are horribly tortured for all time.

(2) Everyone who died before Jesus was crucified went to hell, no one went to heaven.

(3) There was a one time amnesty offered to those in hell after Jesus died.

So that raises some questions in my mimd

(1) Elihja in 2 Kings is taken up to heaven bodily -- so was he the only one there?

(2) In Luke 16

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

Lazarus is in a place of ease and comfort, and no one from Hades could cross over to it. So how could the others have left hell to go to heaven?

reply to post by PharohGnosis


You cant quote form a book many dont believe in. You have to have more than quotes to convince them...and not more quotes.

reply to post by metamagic


It wasn't a get out of jail free card. Obviously their merits would have come into effect.

Originally posted by PharohGnosis
reply to post by metamagic

 

It wasn't a get out of jail free card. Obviously their merits would have come into effect.

You didn't answer the two questions that were put to you.

(1) Explain the contradiction between your claim that no one goes to heaven except by believing in Jesus and the fact that Elijah was taken bodily to heaven; and
(2) Why does the bible say in Luke that those in hell can never cross over to heaven, yet this is what you claim happened.

But even this attempt to evade answering raises even another question.

(3) If all have sinned and it is only through faith in Jesus that you can go to heaven, then why would you say that their merits were the reason these people in in hell would go to heave. So what it is.. faith or works?

reply to post by metamagic


Here www.gotquestions.org... not that it will change your mind on anything but it will answer your question.

Originally posted by PharohGnosis
reply to post by metamagic

 

Here www.gotquestions.org... not that it will change your mind on anything but it will answer your question.

v-

It doesn't answer anything. It now appears to me that, even after attempting to engage you in polite and respectful dialog, you have no intention of answering any question that asks you to account for the contradictions of your stated position.

A a Christian, you are commanded to love others as you love yourself. Further, god has given you the parable of the good shepherd and the lost lamb as an example of the extent that he is prepared to go to in order to save a single wayward soul. Does your Christian conscience rest easy at the possibility that if you had only answered my few questions honestly that you might have saved a soul instead of turning someone away. Of course you will probably try to excuse yourself by saying that I would never have followed Jesus, but how do you know? You don't know my mind and this exchange may have been divinely orchestrated so that you would have been there to offer enlightenment at exactly the moment in my life I needed it. Or you can second guess god and assume that it didn't really matter how many souls you drove away.

Our dialog is done. If you are an example of how Christ manifests through one of his followers, then I want no part of this. Hopefully you will find true enlightenment and understand the true nature of god someday.

Peace