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posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Do not want to get into religion bashing or arguments but possibly you could explain to me what a "true" christian is? To me (i would describe myself as a tepid agnostic) surely only true christians are those who follow the general teachings of Jesus (not sure he existed but for arguments sake will say he did) rather than the bible per say?

As the bible was written way after his life, this cannot be considered to be "the word of god". This has always confused me if i am honest - how could something written at a later date be considered his written word? At best (if true) it is someone else's interpretation of it..........hence my question, what is a true christian?

ETA:

Not an attempt to bash, more after clear thinking on the rationale (if that makes sense).
edit on 15-3-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-3-2012 by Flavian because: spelling




posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 



As the bible was written way after his life, this cannot be considered to be "the word of god". This has always confused me if i am honest - how could something written at at alter date be considered his written word?


Because we learn from Einstein that time itself is a physical property. God exists outside of time altogether. things appear to happen in a sequential timeline to those of us who are bound in the 4th dimension, but God is not. That's why Jesus said he saw luicifer "fall from heaven like lightning", yet we learn in Revelation that lucifer won't be kicked out of heaven until the mid-point of the tribulation.

To God, the end is visible from the beginning. Think of a parade, if you and I are sitting on the sidewalk we can only see what happens in front of us. We cannot see the beginning of the parade, nor can we see where the end of it is. But God, who is hovering in a helicopter can see both the beginning and the end of the parade at the same time.

The ONLY way God authenticate His message to us is with prophecy. thousands of detail specific prophecies. That shows us that the original message must have come from a source outside of our time domain. that could only come from God. Not even angels can see the future. You MUST trust in God, and not your own sight or hearing.

Perfect example: King Hezekiyah (sp?) was hearing from Jeremiah in Jerusalem that he would be bound and carried away to Babylon unless he repented. Ezekiel was prophesying that he would "never see' Babylon. And both men were claiming to speak for God. Well, since he believed their Word from the Lord was contradictory he refused to repent, he thought they both were wrong.

Come to find out later, that the king's sons were slain before him, then immediately after that his eyes were seared out of his head and he was bound and carried away to Babylon. And Ezekiel was absolutely right, the King never "saw" Babylon. And Jeremiah was 100% correct, he was bound and carried to Babylon.

Go by faith ONLY, not by sight or human reasoning. Eyes and ears will deceive.




Not an attempt to bash, more after clear thinking on the rationale (if that makes sense).


No offense taken. I can tell those who are genuinely asking questions from those who are asking fake questions trying to mock and ridicule. I appreciate your respect and tolerance and I offer the same in return.




edit on 15-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by AtlantisX99
 


All you guys do know that it is the Christians job to be insulting....right? It is the child of Gods duty to be insulting, offenses, and a stumbling block to lost people.

How do you FOOLS, not understand this? My Bible says, "The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is NO GOD" Therefore without even having to tell you myself, the Bible clearly says you are a FOOL if you do not believe in the author of the Holy Bible.


As for you Christians reading this, don't bow down to the alter of fake LOVE....you are commanded to HATE EVIL. Not only evil, but some people as well. It is perfectly fine to HATE some people.

You DO NOT have to love everybody. You have ONE and only one obligation to lost people, which is to give them the Gospel of Jesus Christ. After that, they are on their own. Sure, you can continue to "love" them and pray for them, but you are not required to.

Christians, you are to love God, and HATE sin. Which doesn't mean "love the sinner but hate the sin". On the contrary....God Himself hates the sin....and the SINNER. It would do you well to understand this. How do you think He can throw people into Hell WHILE LAUGHING at them! Because He hates them...........some of you need to read your Bibles and stop listening to the foolish amateur psychology bible teachers on TV and youtube.....

P.s. I have TONS of Bible verse to back up what I just said to the T. Try me if you dare. Atheists will be ignored since you are not smart enough to even begin debating with.
edit on 15-3-2012 by KJV1611 because: i can



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 


That sounds like you are advocating hating non christians for no other purpose than they are not christian? If so, that is the sort of thing that makes people dislike religion. Why hate for no reason?



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


We hate sin. And if non-christians want to live in open sin and even flaunt it, such as queers, professional liars (politicians, judges, etc) christian celebrities, and normal celebrities that spew filth into every American household then I HATE THEM with a GODLY hatred because GOD Himself hates them as well.

You guys have no idea what you are dealing with when it comes to the God of the HOLY Bible. HE WILL NOT TOLERATE SIN. And there will be a price to pay for ALL YOU WICKED SINS. That price is a burning Hell where God Himself casts you in while literally LAUGHING at you.

Sooooooo, there is only one way to avoid this fate. Either you live a PERFECT life without ever sinning ONCE......or you trust in a MAN that did just that, 2000 years ago. That man was Jesus Christ. He was GOD Himself, that came in the FLESH of a MAN, so that He could understand what we go through and to fulfill the LAW.

And unless your foolish sinners REPENT from your BELIEFS (not your sins) and turn to God, you will all likewise perish in Hell forever burning in flames. Now you can ignore that and rationalize it all you want, but it doesn't change that fact that Hell is real, and God is anger. You need someone to TAKE GOD'S anger FOR YOU. That would be Jesus Christ on the cross.

Don't miss your chance. Once you die....all hope is gone. And you Christians out there, start getting MEAN. Your weak, sloppy, love filled candy cane unicorn form of MILITANT Christianity sickens me and makes me want to Vomit!! It makes God want to throw up too. (Rev 3:16)
edit on 15-3-2012 by KJV1611 because: i can



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by threewhiteeyes
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


Omg when did I 'put the jws down'?? Again, reference point. By """true christian"""", as I am seeing it perpetualy quoted, again, I am misunderstood. In any of these 'groups', "true christians" exist, indeed. I'm saying they're in ANY group, just not exclusive to them.





JWs and many, many more flavours to this baskin robbins of know-it-alls


Regardless of if was meant as a put down, is irrelevant. I was just making a point, that people you consider to not be true Christians, consider you to not be one either, and consider themselves to be. I wasn't complaining about you being offensive, I was making a valid point. You're getting hung up on the details here.


Originally posted by threewhiteeyes
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 

Again, when did I put aethiests down? I wasn't CLASSIFYING them with the 'fools' I mentioned. It should be clearly seen for the basis of comparison it is.





Aethists, when you 'define' "Christians" by the chracteristics of one sect, you wear your ignorance like a crown.


Again, I wasn't complaining about you doing "put downs". I was making a point here, that you're addressing a group based on issues you should only have with a few members. I was saying that if you strung atheists through the same filter your proposing be used for Christians, you couldn't make that complaint that way.





Originally posted by threewhiteeyes reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 
How can aethiests not be grouped together? It is the simple definition of the word for the only ones I can REFER to when addressing them by the belief system that DEFINES the word.



Yes, the term "Atheists" encompasses all those who don't have any deities they believe in. Good, Bad, and Ugly.

The term Christian encompasses all those who believe in the deity described in the bible, that the bible is in some form inspired, and in the account of jesus. Again, it contains the Good, Bad, and Ugly.

I think it's a horrible double standard, when people start using the word "True Christian". A bad Atheist is a bad atheist? A bad Muslim is a bad Muslim? But a bad Christian, or no, don't worry about it, he's not a "True Christian".

Good people are good people, Bad people are bad people. However, a persons beliefs or lack of is what defines their religion. Not their actions.


Originally posted by threewhiteeyes
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


aethism and Faith in Christ are not compared in op. This isn't a pissing contest, I am addressing a common misconception.
edit on 15-3-2012 by threewhiteeyes because: (no reason given)


I never said they were. Nor did I say anything to imply that it was a "pissing contest." I'm saying, that it is not a misconception. It's a double standard. One that I don't support.

~
Here's an example. There are threads where a persons disbelief in a deity are relevant, such as ones trying to support or prove such deity exist. Those it's ok for an atheist to state their response.

Then there are threads where, it may be of a religious topic, but whether or not the beliefs are true are not the point of interest. "Pray for my sick dog", as an example. There's always at least one atheist who comes in and calls on the ridiculousness of it.

I don't agree with that. Unless someone is trying to prove, discredit, or force beliefs, it's not your place to bud in and complain that you're views don't match. In short, I acknowledge there are rude people in my religious "grouping". I don't redefine the group to not include them, I instead am comfortable knowing that they don't represent me.

Christians bud in when it's not relevant too. As I'm sure you don't agree with. Along with other things you don't agree with. However, trying to define themselves out of your 'group' doesn't work. Especially when many of them are trying to define you out of their same group as well.

~
I agree, strongly, that it's wrong to judge all Christians by one sects actions/beliefs. I'm just stating disagreement with using "True Christian" to fit yourself into a group that doesn't include those you don't support.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 


Well then my question to you would be the same as my original question, how is the bible the word of God? It was written decades after the death of Christ so for all we actually know has zero basis in his teachings.

I fully respect others for their beliefs, regardless of religious denomination. I simply fail to understand how it can be so literally interpreted as the word of god when every other book / thing to do with someone that is begun and completed decades afterwards is treated with healthy scepticism. It is not the belief i struggle with, rather the blind belief it is all literally true.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


Well for starters, your premise is wrong. 85% of the Word of God was actually written 2000-400 years before Jesus Christ ever showed up. That includes the entire Old Testament. Which just so happened to include of 50 prophesies dealing with the birth, times, season, place, name, events, life, death, burial, and resurrection of ONE man! And the Bible got it right all 50 times. (this fact is not debatable...it is well known in secular and religious knowledge)

Compare that to the koran or any other "holy" book. They don't even place, let alone finish.

As for the other 15% of the Bible, known as the New Testament, if you had any common sense about you, you would see that it wasn't Jesus that was writing down His journeys, it was His personal BIOGRAPHERS! Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

And as any fool knows, you can't write a biography on someone UNTIL they have done something worthy of writing about. Think about it, would you write a biography about your life when you were 5? of course not, because it would suck.

So why wouldn't Christ biographies not come AFTER He finished His work on earth? (John 19:30)

Now I thought this was common knowledge based on common sense....I guess not


And the New Testament was not wrote hundreds of years after Christ left....it was wrote 20-60 years after Christ left. How else would have Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter, Jude have wrote it? They would have been dead hundreds of years after Christ left SINCE THEY PERSONALLY WALKED WITH CHRIST AS WELL.

Once again....common sense


Now there are others fake books wrote after a few hundred years.....but as you can clearly see in any King James Bible, the only Authorized Bible, that these fake books are not in it. Such as other various gospels (mary, judus, thomas, etc).

Did that answer it or was there something I missed? Happy to help if I can.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


EDIT: I don't know why I said Hezekiah above, I meant Zedekiah.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



It is perfectly fine to HATE some people.


That's a lie brother. We do NOT war against flesh and blood. We hate the sin, NOT the sinner. In the NT the only nasty seething words and vitriol used were directed at the wolves NOT the unbelieving world. The people who claimed to believe, or claimed to speak for God and they were liars. Secondly, you don't have a clue what Christ is doing in a person's life. That person you "HATE" today may accept Christ tomorrow. Then where are you, you've "murdered" one of God's elect.

1 John 3:15 ~ "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by KJV1611
 


That sounds like you are advocating hating non christians for no other purpose than they are not christian? If so, that is the sort of thing that makes people dislike religion. Why hate for no reason?


Don't listen to that nonsense. Christ loves you and died for you. What he said up there is NOT from the Holy Spirit.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



And you Christians out there, start getting MEAN. Your weak, sloppy, love filled candy cane unicorn form of MILITANT Christianity sickens me and makes me want to Vomit!!


You are not appointed judge of another man's servant. Christ is capable of chastising and rebuking those whom He loves. You were only told to visit widows and orphans in their time of need and to spread the gospel to all nations.

That's it. Your hate is causing the pagans to blaspheme the Lord.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



And the New Testament was not wrote hundreds of years after Christ left....it was wrote 20-60 years after Christ left.


That threw me off too, I'm wondering if he is referring to the Gnostic books?



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by threewhiteeyes
 




1) " Christians need to stop throwing their bibles at me, being arrogant snots, and letting priests molest children" God, where to start..There are Catholics, Lutherans, SDAs, mormons, JWs and many, many more flavours to this baskin robbins of know-it-alls. Then, there are 'Christians'. Finally, like me, people who believe wholeheartedly in Jesus Christ, accept grace, receive the Holy Spirit, and submit their will and time to Him. I care nothing for prepackaged idealology enforced by one set of beliefs. Christ never suggested it.


Roman Catholics, Jehovah witnesses and Mormons are not Christians.

Just thought you should know.

edit on 15-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Would you mind telling me how mormons are not christian?

Considering they base ALL of their lessons on Christ... taken directly from the KJV?

Perhaps their not christian only because they don't adhear to YOUR doctrine... similar to many christians on this forum...

I guess they're not "christian" either right?




posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Would you mind telling me how mormons are not christian?


They are "Mormons".

They deny the divinity of Christ and think the message of the cross is foolishness. The message of the cross is only "foolishness" to those who "are perishing".

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." ~ 1 Corinthians 1:18


Considering they base ALL of their lessons on Christ... taken directly from the KJV?


Nope. They use the Book of Mormon.


Perhaps their not christian only because they don't adhear to YOUR doctrine... similar to many christians on this forum...

I guess they're not "christian" either right?



No, they reject the gospel Paul presented in 1 Corinthians 15. Apparently, Joseph Smith missed this verse in his "KJB":

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

And what happened? An "angel" showed up saying "The Christians are all wrong, here is the true gospel..." A Biblically literate individual would have immediately said to themselves: "You're no angel from heaven go to hell."


edit on 15-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Would you mind telling me how mormons are not christian?

Considering they base ALL of their lessons on Christ... taken directly from the KJV?

Perhaps their not christian only because they don't adhear to YOUR doctrine... similar to many christians on this forum...

I guess they're not "christian" either right?



No they don't. They base ALL their lessons on Joseph Smith... taken directly from the Book of Mormon.

Perhaps their not Christian because they don't adhear to the doctrine of the Bible as they are in fact a CULT and NOT a Christian denomination.

If your going to attempt to argue with what I say, atleast do your research so you do not appear to be ignorant.
edit on 15-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Here Akragon bro, Dr. Ron Carlson, probably the world's leading expert on cuts, pagan religions, and the occult, explaining the differences between biblical orthodox Christianity and cults like the LDS Church. If anything, you'll know the differences between Christians and Mormons.

(starts at the 2:20 mark)








edit on 15-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Im not going to argue about this with either of you... I have a thread for that actually...

Questioning Mormonism

They adhear to all the letter of paul just so you know... i had their beliefs explained to me in detail...

They don't base their religion on Joseph smith, he was just a prophet... And much of what he said was taken verbatim from the KJV bible...

They don't deny the dvinity of Christ...

Yes they use the BOM but they also consider the KJV an authority on scripture....

www.lds.org...

NYT..


And what happened? An "angel" showed up saying "The Christians are all wrong, here is the true gospel..."


Actually it turns out when Christ visited the Nephites... he was carrying his KJV bible... the encounter was taken verbatim from Matthew 5-6

And RevGen...


If your going to attempt to argue with what I say, atleast do your research so you do not look ignorant.


You are one of the most amusing characters on these forums honestly... i don't bother argueing with you BECAUSE of the shear amount of ignorance you display in your posts...

I've done my research, and am still doing it... with a member of the mormon church...

Try looking in the mirror before you judge me as ignorant bro




posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I appreciate that my friend, but i've noticed many issues with their beliefs... and as you should know by now abouut me... I don't take other peoples "opinions" on anything... this is why i don't read work from critics of any relgion. I read the scripture myself...

Regardless of their issues, i would not even consider calling them "not christian"... they are very christian... i've found their stick to Jesus words even more then many christians do.




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