US soldier kills Afghan civilians in Kandahar

reply to post by breemtameem


What makes you think you are important enough to be " marked" tisk tisk....

You can say what ever you want, anytime you want. Nobody is gonna come after you for voicing your opinion.

Enjoy. And worry not!!!

reply to post by Golf66

Yet when some American kid loses it and goes on a rampage, which would be illegal regardless of what country he happened to be in who also happens to be a service member it’s treated as an indictment against not only the entirety of the people serving in the military but all Americans in general . Pathetic double standard.

EXACTLY!!!!

We apologize, but where are their apologies?

Would their attitude change if we developed the attitude, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", or say any Muslim Country?

Just an absolutely sick story...This soldier goes out at 3 am and kills 9 children, 3 women and 4 men who were in their houses in bed. I know justice won't be served, but this sick individual needs to be beaten to death by the families of the victims. This is a massacre. How would you feel in their shoes..16 or more innocent people are no longer on this earth because of the ignorant and horrific actions of this so called 'soldier.'

And I don't agree with anyone saying this is caused by exhaustion from tours overseas's or something along those lines..This is a downright massacre, I could see your point if one, maybe two were killed, but 9 children, 3 women and 4 men! Come on!

Originally posted by Golf66

I might be wrong but when four of our Soldiers and Marines were killed in retaliation for the Koran burning I heard not a peep from the President demanding some kind of justice for them or even for sympathy or condolences for thier families. Perhaps he was too busy writing his 3 page apology letter to notice…

However, this AM when I woke there was a statement of apology on the news floating about already about this kids actions. Again – pathetic double standard.

Soldiers who have made the "choice" to be sent to a country to risk their lives for debatable agendas from their leader, compared to a solider killing innocent civilians including 9 children who had no choice in the matter is not really a good example of a double standard in my opinion.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
Just an absolutely sick story...This soldier goes out at 3 am and kills 9 children, 3 women and 4 men who were in their houses in bed. I know justice won't be served, but this sick individual needs to be beaten to death by the families of the victims. This is a massacre. How would you feel in their shoes..16 or more innocent people are no longer on this earth because of the ignorant and horrific actions of this so called 'soldier.'

And I don't agree with anyone saying this is caused by exhaustion from tours overseas's or something along those lines..This is a downright massacre, I could see your point if one, maybe two were killed, but 9 children, 3 women and 4 men! Come on!

Well said. Your post repeats the facts in a stark cold manner. I would like to add that there is a perimeter to the base.
The perimeter must be guarded. Did the soldier guards wave goodbye as the supposedly drunk or crazed killer left with full magazines and returned with no ammo?

If so they should be held to account.
If not then the base was not secure and could have been attacked.

Either way there are more soldiers who should be tried for not being on duty or letting him go.

Many of the posts that even slightly defend the soldier get a disgusted response that is more or less, "How can you defend such an evil being?"
And although in essence I find nothing "wrong" with this response and think it isn't a bad view to have, I do think that people might possibly be looking at it in a slightly biased way.
As I've seen some veterans already said, being in the midst of war completely changes your perception of war. As everyone learns before they even leave childhood, murder is widely considered to be wrong. But suddenly, when you become a soldier, this very basic belief falls apart. You are taught that in some situations there are exceptions.
The exception is this: If another human commands you to murder, it's perfectly ok, righteous even. It probably sounds naive and stupid to many of you, as this sight is obviously filled with many noncomformists, but you have to try to just understand that this is what they have been brainwashed to believe by our society. They truly believe that love and trust in their country, a.k.a. patriotism, is to be honored above even their basic morals. They don't realize that this is influence from others that caused them to think this; They think that it's a truth in their heart.
We all know that innocent people, women and children included, are killed during wars. It's never been hid from us. But we've been taught that if it's ordered by those who supposedly have our best interest at heart, it somehow is justified.
However, when you are placed in the middle of it as a soldier, it's not those who commanded you who are doing the killing. It's you. Your brain knows you're only doing it because you're told, but your heart doesn't know this difference. All it knows is that you're killing someone. There is a point in being in a war where who's right or wrong becomes meaningless. Then, it becomes about survival. Killing them before they kill you. The enemy truly becomes the enemy, regardless of whether they are "innocent" or not. And the supposed line between killing because you want to vs. killing because you're ordered to becomes very blurred.
I'm not saying that his behavior is "right." I can't saying anything. I'm not God; I don't know exactly what values are true and what aren't. Any judgement I made towards that would be completely opinion, constricted by my human selfishness and limited human perception.
But I do believe that our government has no place to judge, either. It is our society which created this. To judge him would be playing a sort of God role. Condemning someone for being the evil being you created them to be.
I do feel sorry for him. Part of him is always going to feel guilt for the evils that he's been a part of.

reply to post by aching_knuckles

I see, so everyone else is just a big bad liar.

You've, obviously, not dealt with many eye witnesses to tragic/chaotic events.

The taliban killed those women and kids and the whole village is lying about it.

Or they just don't know what was going on, and then you've got the one guy left running around for them to blame everything on.

That actually could be true, but our track record is so bad in the past 10 years, they automatically have no credibility - and ultimately, no one to blame but ourselves.

Because you are qualified to determine what is and is not a good/bad/acceptable record.

Not that it will stop you from making your own judgments, but you are quite ignorant of the situation, and your opinion quite irrelevant spare for the entertainment it brings my argumentative streak.

A bunch more women and kids are dead, making the grand total how many thousand now? How can you even defend this? You are a monster.

Rawr, bitch.

You lack analytical capacity, hence your liberal standpoint on things. Where have I said I defend criminal activity?

I am defending the possibility that there is far more to this story than meets the eye. We weren't there, and I'm not about to participate in stoning the prostitute or burning the witch because of the self-delusional blood-lust our society expresses.

Originally posted by breemtameem
reply to post by TheGreatest

 

world war 2 deployments weren't just 12 months. yeah those people were messed up, but i hope you take into consideration the types of things the people saw and dealt with in world war 2, opposed to a person's mental stability in these "wars" we are in currently. i'm sorry but this shouldn't have anything to do with his actions in afghanistan. but thanks for your input. but as far as the rest of this post, i totally agree

Much research has been put into shell shock PTSD ect
By many many institutions and governments
But rest assured, while I do not have the statistics available ( I'm sure you could find them )
Modern deployment times are a calculation of expected combat days relative to expected stress, by most NATO nations
They came to their subsequent times from direct research into WW2 vets
But what I'm trying to say is days in combat in WW2 for the majority was not that high respectively
Please do not believe this is in anyway meant to offend the vets
You all have my respect and can't comprehend what you must have experienced

Originally posted by beezzer
We are at war. People die. People lose it.

People are, well, people.

Here's real neat idea!

Surrender. Have all the people who are trying to kill us, stop. Raise the white flag.
Quit.

Once you do that, we leave, have a parade, give a few speeches, and it's done.

Bezzer, not sure why this is but all your posts have been defending outright murderous acts such as this. I wonder how many more atrocities that foreign troops commit that we're not told about? I'm guessing a lot - you say surrender, but how can they surrender when the insurgency is the cause of this illegal occupation? It's a vicious cycle.. now because of this Afghan men and women will now join insurgent groups to get revenge because of this one individuals actions.

Pack up and go home or blood will be repaid in blood.

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by SGTSECRET

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I wonder how many of these psychos will be going berserk once they head back home.
What goes around comes around.

...those 'psychos' are the same ones that you would be praising and begging for if our own nation was ever invaded. so easy to talk trash now, but if these 'psychos' didn't fight for our country while it was being invaded you would be calling them cowards and wondering what to do to save your a**. now they are psychos, when you need them they are heroes. support the troops is a joke...

well, over the last 30 years or so, when have the soldiers
been fighting for their country? It beens pointless wars tht
benefit the rich. They are not fighting for their country, they
are fighting for these wealthy criminals. Country patrioism
is a horrible brainwashing tool

you obviously missed the IFs in my post. go back and read again. im completely aware we aren't fighting for our country right now, been there, seen people die for nothing. yes its all pointless but you have missed the entire point of my post.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by torsion

 

Great, now all of Afghanistan is gonna be mad at us.
This guy went and killed innocents without authorization.
I hope he at least screamed, "put down the gun" first before he killed the innocents.

Lol, I didn't know we needed "authorization" to kill innocent civilians.

I could not care less..

What do you think is going to happen with deployment after deployment?? Happy and mentally fit human beings??

No-way!!

I can tell you from personal experience that it takes years to get over combat stress and it can hit you at anytime.. I strangled my wife, put my dad in hospital, freaked out violently on quite a few occasions... Night terrors, flash backs, panic attacks, violent outbursts... If I had a gun I know I would have used it as all I could see was not my family but the enemy... Im OK now... But only after quite a few years of treatment...

Prepare for the bomb that is PTSD on your and my nation when all of this is over and the troops are safely home because that is when it hits you the most..

As for some of the comments on this thread... Pfffft ... You have NO CLUE!!

And as not only a vet but a reservist myself, I can tell you that when the SHTF in our own country you will be defending yourselves.. Screw you!

I may have not been calm in normal life for a while, but in combat I am Zen calm as it IS normal to me... So when the NWO closes its grip and some of you pissy pants cry out for help then you can just go fk yourselves as I will be on the other end with my jack boot on your neck..

You are not worth my life or any other of my serving brothers and sisters lives..

WTF should we defend YOU??

reply to post by torsion


I hate the reaction people give to these events, like the Koran burning a few weeks ago; Afghan cop kills a few American top brass personnel in Kabul, protestors rally against Westerners in several countries etc. etc.

Take a look at the Syrian government, those guys are killing innocent Muslims every day, why don't these freedom fighters and insurgents from Afghan/Pakistan/Yemen/Uzbekistan take a look at their own doorsteps first, before crying over a few burned pieces of paper!?

reply to post by EvanB


Sorry, were you forced to join up? No! So don't act as if we should be grateful when there is absolutely no reason to be, troops in the Middle East are their to serve the bankers interests and definitely not the peoples.

I hope you like to be responsible for their exorbitant bonuses

Just heard on BBC news at 23:00 reports of more than one soldier.

American soldiers on this thread. Is it possible for one or more soldiers to leave the base undetected? Either way why can't they work out how many left the base?

Anyway more from the BBC........
The US are now saying they will bring those who committed these acts to account allthough only one so far has been apprehended. He is from Fort Lewis where the "kill team" hailed from. Investigations are continuing.

reply to post by EvanB


You sir are a total penis and an embarrassment to the military community.

You should be grateful for the amount of respect you guys receive in the states from civilians back home, not telling people to F*ck off!! Your just as bad as the dude that pulled the trigger on those Afghans

Originally posted by Canadianpride420

I know justice won't be served, but this sick individual needs to be beaten to death by the families of the victims. This is a massacre. How would you feel in their shoes..16 or more innocent people are no longer on this earth because of the ignorant and horrific actions of this so called 'soldier.

I agree with you that justice should be meted out.

However, to differ on one point ironically one of the reasons we are there is to prevent people from being "beaten to death" in the streets for crimes like it’s the 7th century all over again. Is that what justice is in Canada?

He will in my prediction be Court Martialed and ultimately spend the rest of his life behind bars in Leavenworth Prison as is the case with all Soldiers found guilty of murder.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by blueorder

 

I don't understand your insertion of "what goes around comes around", as, if in the scenario where a GI returns and kills women and kids in the US, how is that their fault or how did they in anyway deserve it

No one deserves to die because some psycho with a gun and military training was feeling "stressed". I've noticed that its the usual excuse made when an American soldier goes berserk on unarmed soldiers.

Now, read back through this thread and count the number of posts excusing this act as a result of stress.
Then count the number of posts that sympathize with the dead Afghans. What does that tell you?

Speaking for myself, if I knew somebody who got back from a war having purposely killed civilians, I would not want to be anywhere around him.

edit on 11-3-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Starred you for pointing out the obvious which seems to be completely oblivious to some people on here.

It really does seem that this "stress" excuse is becoming the norm... imagine for a second if sides were switched, but the ego of each country (us/afghanistan) remained as is. I can guarantee that if an afghan troop went "rambo" in a US suburb it would be treated as an act of war.

The hypocrisy of american politics is sickening, and it's frightening that people chase the same old excuses to explain and justify these atrocities.

I really hope most of these countries around the world who are "hosting" US military bases look at this news and reconsider allowing these ego-maniac psychos to be on their land and among their people. It could happen absolutely anywhere.

It's not just events like this, it happens all around the world. The US troops and military personal who are in service at other countries wreak havoc and get into fights all the time. There are countless events of japanese based US forces terrorising citizens with noise, threats, and physical assault all the time (being one tiny example).

There is clearly something wrong with the way the US military trains these people, or is it just a lack of dignity for other human beings among the masses? If you were to ask me, this is an effect of an extreme capitalist society.

They should go home, back to the US. No-one on this Earth wants to live with the threat of assault, abuse, or death on their doorstop by hostile forces from another country. They aren't doing anything to "save" afghanistan. The only terrorists they are fighting are the ones who have been created by the fact that they invaded someone's homeland and destroyed town after town with no real justification.

'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'.
Any retribution for this inhumane assault on the people of afghanistan would be from the act of a freedom fighter.

Originally posted by milkyway12


If CAS counted on the fleeing terrorist we would have had 7 kills

against your 4.

edit on 11-3-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Christ man, 'Kills" rolls off your tongue way too easily, particularly given the admission in your signature.

Think about it. Jesus was a terrorist, an insurgent.
Would you have killed him?

Would you kill your own troops who are seen as terrorists by those you terrorise, or is it a one way street ("Us good, them bad ugh ug oog").

You so-called Christian (Christ-stain) soldiers make me sick to my toes.

reply to post by Petest205

Lol, I didn't know we needed "authorization" to kill innocent civilians

i would be very careful on the comments you make on here when it come to civilians

just giving you heads up