US soldier kills Afghan civilians in Kandahar

reply to post by sitchin


What are you talking about? I have fought with a British platoon. They are effective and brave. So were we. I don't see what kind of point you are trying to make with that comment.

Though we did make the first run across the field while they were still arguing about which formation was "optimal" .

We heard them yelling at each other and then next thing you know you hear a couple of marines running across the field like a bat out of hell screaming " Oh sh*t , Oh sh*t ". Was hilarious. They secured an over watch and the rest of us moved up , but yeah. We made the first move so i think America wins on that one.

They did get 4 kills and we only got 2 , so they did kill more than we did , but they were moving against the wood line while we had a small detachment holding the left. We took 2/3s of the village they took 1/3 and got the outside wood line , right flank. So obviously they had more to shoot at , the two we killed though were in windows.

They also said CAS and GTG didnt count. If you guys didnt have such sh*t aircraft , we wouldnt have this problem

If CAS counted on the fleeing terrorist we would have had 7 kills against your 4.

Originally posted by Aim64C
Of course - since this is ATS, I will go ahead and give you a possible scenario as proposed by an intelligent person:

There is a terrorist/rebel/warlord considered a high-value target. A covert team dispatches to take this target into custody. The mission is compromised when civilian militia under the target's influence engage the team. Through a convoluted sequence of events detailed on Top Secret documents, this man ends up missing the extraction. He is apprehended by conventional response teams (not part of the operation) and processed on criminal charges.

Makes a lot more sense than "they just spent a million taxpayer dollars to take a helicopter out and jeopardize the relationship between a government that took trillions of dollars to establish."

Wow. I guess you missed the part about "drunk".

Fit that into your "commando raid gone wrong" theory.

reply to post by John0Doe

And that should justify his actions???

No.

Most of u people see this incidents as holywood movie,but let imagine for one second that an afghanian comes in your neighbourhood and kill children in front of your eyes,and u cant do # about it??? And than Afghan president goes on CNN and say sorry.... i mean....WTF!!??

Well, I can sacrifice a fellow American as a show of good faith. I nominate you, but I imagine you'll contest that nomination with that of myself. There are the tweakers next door I'd be happy to sacrifice, as well as a few individuals I consider to be toxic to American society.

What do you want done about it? We can't bring people back to life. You can't do anything to undo what has been done.

You look at what happened, assess the failures, and develop a plan to prevent such things from happening in the future.

I think it is you who is stuck in hollyweird with this fantasy notion that there is something that not only can be done, but must be done to atone for the problems this individual caused.

And this isnt first time american cowards-soldiers did something like this....

Because we are all robots of the same mind and individual characteristics. That guy over there with the gang tattoo under his uniform is the same as me, as well as the quiet girl with asperger's working in crypto. We're all the same. We all get inexplicably aroused by the concept of putting bullets into helpless people, of that desperate look in their eyes right before their light is snuffed out.

With the rate of college shootings these days, I would say it is probable that there is a stronger correlation between student status and criminal killing sprees than there is with wartime deployment... but I don't have the figures sitting in front of me, either.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

What you are mistaking is that we are not there to "beat" Afghanistan. We aren't there to beat Afghanistan , we are there to kill terrorist and we are doing it well and very efficiently

Oh really, is that the updated mission for Afghanistan? So what happens when more "Afghanis" become more "terrorists". What if they ALL do? Will you then have to "Beat" Afghanistan?

reply to post by aching_knuckles

Wow. I guess you missed the part about "drunk".

Fit that into your "commando raid gone wrong" theory.

I guess you missed the part about there being wild claims ranging from a single soldier to that of some kind of joint-forces operation.

Everything we know about this is based upon heresay.

reply to post by torsion


The taking of INNOCENT life is NEVER ok. Because you or your religion were insulted is no excuse.

That being said, are these the same civilians who were rioting and going all crazy over the burning of some paper with words on it?

I hate conflict but I'm not blind.

I actually cannot believe some of the posts in this thread.

Would you have defended the nazis when they invaded Poland and slaughter the jews (men, women and children). This man is not a solider, this man is a murderer! Through and through!

ALS

Originally posted by Aim64C

With the rate of college shootings these days, I would say it is probable that there is a stronger correlation between student status and criminal killing sprees than there is with wartime deployment... but I don't have the figures sitting in front of me, either.

Wow. Really, I just dont even know whats inthat Koolaid they give you. Keep it the # away from me.

reply to post by beezzer

Perspective. The USS Cole, Twin Towers, numerous bombings.

What role did Afghanistan play in any of those scenarios you listed?

The only one that qualifies is the "numerous bombings" which started when American forces started dropping bombs and missiles on Afghan villages then the peasant Afghans retaliated. I must admit that I very much dislike the way the Afghans use IED's that often kill or injure innocent civilians. It would never have happened if their country didn't get invaded. Sure the Taliban are scumbags, but so are a lot of other people, including YOUR government.

This double standard is ridiculous.

Perhaps this can be the time to LEAVE AFGHANISTAN.

Nation building is not possible, we can't afford it and the people don't want it. The people of Afghanistan won't have freedom until they want it for themselves.

(now you can go back to bashing America)

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Wow. I guess you missed the part about "drunk".

Fit that into your "commando raid gone wrong" theory.

I guess you missed the part about there being wild claims ranging from a single soldier to that of some kind of joint-forces operation.

Everything we know about this is based upon heresay.

A group of drunk soldiers is a "joint forces operation"?

Quit trying to justify it. And actually, what you are saying makes it sound worse - if a special forces team is lighting up a bunch of women and kids, that way worse than a bunch of drunks doing it.

Originally posted by Neocrusader
ME applying My morals and humanity to any given situation and advising from experience
not some zombie product of the killbot factory blindly following the blind
My knowlege my skills my understanding my ethics

Good on you bud! Quitting is never the solution. War will always happen, so it's better to have good guys like you there to act as a moral compass for all the retard hooraaa's who get a kick out of wasting people.

Regarding the story, and the previous comments about the Killing Team issue being "resolved"...hmmm I doubt the families of the dead think it's resolved. As for the guy in the story, I don't have a lot to say. He got burned out and went WAY over the top, and committed crimes and sins for which he has to be punished.

I personally wouldn't be against him being punished in Afgan tradition. Hell, if I was his C/O I would be tempted to hand him over to them.

A Christian would say Eye for Eye according to the bible, and I'm sure a Muslim would say the same. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" as my old C/O used to say. I'm not in religious in any way, saying that!

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

I actually cannot believe some of the posts in this thread.

The posts don't surprise me in the slightest.

Would you have defended the nazis when they invaded Poland and slaughter the jews (men, women and children).

I wouldn't support the slaughter of children. But there are certainly a fair number of people who have no business being alive, much less passing their uselessness on to their children.

Though I would find myself ideologically opposed to the Nazi agenda. I don't care about race, and I'm not a socialist.

Of course, I also like to argue with people and say socially obscene things (especially when people use comparisons to Nazism in straw-man to "win" the argument).

This man is not a solider, this man is a murderer! Through and through!

Quite possibly. But that is why there is a trial system. We don't convict without evidence. All we have are stories that range from the mundane to the sensational to the delusional.

reply to post by milkyway12

What are you talking about? I have fought with a British platoon. They are effective and brave. So were we. I don't see what kind of point you are trying to make with that comment.

i don't mean to be disrespectful .. if a British solder had done this and had the very poor record that the american solders have in afghan ..i would be the 1st to condemn them

ive served 2 tours in Iraq ..my brother is going to Afghan in 2013 ...this mans actions will put every solders live at risk 1 thousand fold ..yet the arm chair soldiers defend him to the hilt ...its plain wrong...

the troops going to afghan need to be seasoned vets...not young kids ..all brawn and no brains...pointless killings that will play right into the Taliban hands ..

British tactics and american tactics are very different ..we tend to befriend the civilians and get them onside
gathering intel ....


without the people on our side it is a hopeless cause .

reply to post by aching_knuckles

Wow. Really, I just dont even know whats inthat Koolaid they give you. Keep it the # away from me.

You attempt to evoke a dogmatic principle?

What was that about koolaid? Sheep?

A group of drunk soldiers is a "joint forces operation"?

This thread is moving quite fast, and it is why I use the "reply to" function of this board. If you look at the post I was replying to, you will see exactly what I was talking about.

Quit trying to justify it. And actually, what you are saying makes it sound worse - if a special forces team is lighting up a bunch of women and kids, that way worse than a bunch of drunks doing it.

Dead women and children can be created via many methods not exclusive to American soldiers.

You're barking up the wrong tree, my hateful little friend.

It's incredible, in my opinion, to see people justifying this killings, coming up those same excuses about how the terrorists hide in the middle of the civilians, etc. I just wonder what would happen if a afghan killed some civilians on a city on the U.S.

A little bit off topic, but what many of you guys fail to understand is that they're fighting for their country and their way of life. I can only imagine what you, americans and soldiers, would do to protect your land, your family and your way of life against an invading force. I bet you would do the same as the Afghans. Or even worst.

Some of these posts seem to portray all the US troops in this negative light....I have talked to a few and by no means do they feel that the actions of this one soldier (or soldiers) should represent them.

(isn't that how Muslims wish to be treated - not to be colored with the same thoughts as the extremists?)

Originally posted by Aim64C


Dead women and children can be created via many methods not exclusive to American soldiers.

You're barking up the wrong tree, my hateful little friend.

I see, so everyone else is just a big bad liar. The taliban killed those women and kids and the whole village is lying about it. That actually could be true, but our track record is so bad in the past 10 years, they automatically have no credibility - and ultimately, no one to blame but ourselves.

A bunch more women and kids are dead, making the grand total how many thousand now? How can you even defend this? You are a monster.

Originally posted by sitchin

the troops going to afghan need to be seasoned vets...not young kids ..all brawn and no brains...pointless killings that will play right into the Taliban hands ..

British tactics and american tactics are very different ..we tend to befriend the civilians and get them onside
gathering intel ....

Without being rude to you mate, I don't think our modern military wants clever soldiers. They just want robots to follow orders and not think too hard about why they are killing people. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that no Afghans that I know of have ever killed 1000's of British/US/Allied civilians? Aside from the 9/11 debacle. Brits certainly are different from American soldiers (mainly mindset, and training) and I would suggest that USMC/USA would play a stronger role on the frontline doing the really #ty work, while the Brits would be better at the political work. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying no balls/guts, I strictly mean they are better educated and less likely to lose the plot and go on a killing spree

reply to post by Aim64C

I wouldn't support the slaughter of children. But there are certainly a fair number of people who have no business being alive, much less passing their uselessness on to their children.

Though I would find myself ideologically opposed to the Nazi agenda. I don't care about race, and I'm not a socialist.

Of course, I also like to argue with people and say socially obscene things (especially when people use comparisons to Nazism in straw-man to "win" the argument).

I used a Nazi comprasion because it is the most known. I could have used other examples (such as the British slaughter of 30,000 south african women and children) but would it have had the same impact. No.

ALS