God's War On Terror: Islam, Prophecy and the Bible (Walid Shoebat w Joel Richardson)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


See the whole story has been turned twisted in my point of view.

Christianity or Judaism or maybe even both, like to portray Adam like he was some kind of a criminal. Whereas in Islam, he is portrayed more as a person who forgot the initial order (because it was in his nature to do so), and err'ed. But his error was forgiven when he asked God for forgiveness. He was simply human, like all of us.

Which brings us to square one. God gave Adam free will (in this case you call it free choice) doesn't matter it means the same thing, knowing full well what he would do with it. Doesn't God know what His creation is capable of? He knew exactly what Adam was capable of. Which is why He warned him in the first place. God only warns those He knows will do that mistake....get my drift? Why would God bother warning someone who He knows will stick to His orders like a robot? That doesn't make sense.

reply to post by nusnus


God gave all of "the hosts of heaven" (angels) free will too. That's why some of them strayed.

That's the whole point of free will. God didn't want to MAKE anyone/anything to follow Him. He wanted them to choose to follow Him.

Without knowing sin, we wouldn't understand what perfection or love was. We had to experience the imperfect in order to understand and appreciate the perfect. Otherwise, we all would be robots.

reply to post by nusnus


You're not getting my point, the adama was made to live eternal. It was his choice that brought death onto him. If he had not made that choice, he never would have perished and we wouldn't be dying. Because he was created with a perfect body it took sin 930 years to kill him, for us it's Christ's will that we live as long as we do. There is nothing "natural" about this hell we are stuck in. This is not our natural state of being. We are corrupted degenerates and that is why we are dying. The only way back home to Eden is through Christ. The effects of sin still take their toll on our corrupted flesh despite our spirits being reborn, only when we are resurrected will we be given our new uncorrupted bodies.

reply to post by nusnus


This, imho, is a great summary of Islam's views on the matter. Further, when discussing the choice, Adam and Eve (peace upon them) are always referred to collectively, meaning they both erred. Some Jewish women today suffer greatly because the entire error is placed upon Eve's shoulders.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Wait, you're telling me you believe humans were originally made to live eternally? Who told you this? And why would you believe this? That doesn't make sense either. God is the only being that lives eternally, we humans, are simply sustained by Him. Humans, even those in heaven, do not have the power to live eternally by themselves. They would though as long as God sustains them. Meaning humans do not have the power to live eternally like some kind of demi-gods themselves.

Leave that aside, humans were cast out of heaven as a punishment yes. But to forgo the fact that God forgave Adam when he asked for forgiveness, means you believe life itself is a punishment for Adams disobedience. At that point you're going to be losing me. Because life on earth (and consequently death) is not a punishment. That would mean that the Merciful God you believe in, has put us all here because of what Adam and Eve did. Life is a punishment, yay? Where is the sense in that?

Nay, life is not a punishment, but a stage of testing. Adam was tested, and so are every single human being that came afterwards. Oh, and this test, doesn't take place because God does not know exactly what each and every one of us will chose. He knows very well, He knew long before He even put us here.

But WE dont. It would have been very unfair for us, if at the time of our creation, God simply took us and separated us into two groups, those who believe in Him and those who believe in themselves alone. But He sent us here to show us, with the proof of our own actions, that whatever we get in the end, is a complete and utter fairness, because we deserved it.

reply to post by Deetermined


Well again, the way things are portrayed in Islam are completely different.

Angels are not given free will. They are simply servants. However, the only other creatures that were given free will apart from humans were what we call jinns. They were created out of fire, and were high and mighty on the same level of obedience as angels until Satan decided he was too high and mighty to bow to Adam.

Its probably moot to discuss these things when we don't even agree on the same level of information. But to me, it makes more sense to believe that angels are dependable robots and those who 'strayed' were simply those who weren't angels but a different breed of creatures.

I thought this would be relevant to the post. Shoebat claimed that he threw a bomb at Bank Leumi, an Israeli bank, in Bethlehem. How comes he isnt arrested and tried in a court of law?



According to wikipedia there is a lack of evidence supporting his autobiography

Wikipedia