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WTC 7 was IMPLODED : irrefutable seismic evidence from LDEO and NIST itself.

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posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


First quote : News for you. WTC 1 and 2 both had 3 massive concrete with steel bars reinforced mechanical floors, and it had a MUCH stiffer core than the Windsor tower, existing of 47 huge, massive, immense thick steel columns. Enforced with massive cross beams between the core columns.
In effect a much stronger construction than the relatively cheap build Windsor tower.
And you should take a closer look at the combined time tables 1 and 2 for the Windsor tower I posted. The buckling and partial collapsing took hours, not 13 seconds.

Second quote : You missed the word "hot". I was talking about the Twin Towers, who were hot up high. WTC 7 was hot down there. Hunt the fire : a thought game.
You're an easy opponent. You are so eager to get me down, that you jump over my text. You should be more cautious, and much slower in your angry responses.

Well, it turns out I can. With water. That turns into steam when an explosive is set off inside it. Remember the squibs discussion. That's what it was. Cutter charges hidden in water containers. Think of your own kind of container, any kind. Like an elevator shaft end.
Ever been on a Mine Sweeping vessel? Felt the ...Whump? No majestic ...Bang... at all? But a huge water and steam mixture fountain spouting up from the sea.
A depth charge set-off under water will end up on a seismogram. Same goes for a torpedo. Ask your NAVY.
Remember the flooded elevator shaft ends. Rodriguez saving two persons from one, they were nearly drowned. The whole damn underground floors were flooded with 10 cm water from the broken huge water mains pipe in the dry wall around the WTC complex. It flooded down in all shafts.

To answer the rest : There exists a whole library of videos with audio records for the Twin Tower collapses.
There exists also a small library for the WTC 7 collapse. Nearly all do not contain the sound of the collapse itself. Only this one from NIST.
(Thank you saint from NIST who managed to smuggle this one through into the FOIA map! Hats off.)
Btw, cutter charges going off are outright disappointing in their sound spectrum. Ask our explosives expert, Damocles.
I also see you missed the videos from Rick Seagel, with those very deep rumble sounds registered on his camera while he was filming on a Peer in the Hudson River, on the other side of Manhattan.
General, you have no military background. Go studying posts by Damocles and Tom Bedlam, they are experts.
And even they were not in the real know of the latest 4th and 5th generation thermobarics.

Third quote : No, would-be expert that you are. An FAE is a totally different device than a 2-or 3-stage thermobaric, see my last post with the list of links, and that is only 2 pages worth of discussions between people who really know what they are talking about, not a tin soldier like you, posing as a brick hard military man. Return to a state of mind where you search for the truth, not for revenge for insults.
I prefer an FAE in a closed off building above a thermobaric thrown at me. No chance at all in the latter case.
A good hiding spot and I will live through the FAE, perhaps some burns and less hair.

Smile. I see you have read some of my links, but used the wrong texts from the wrong guys. And also mixed it up with the wrong conclusions.
You are the one who does not have a grip on the inner workings of a thermobaric weapon.

And does not know how to enjoy the pleasure of civil social intercourse.




posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by LaBTop
A prime example of your technique is your point (1).


Correct. This technique is called "Asking to back up claims with evidence and sources". It is a very nasty discussion technique, often resulting in huge frustration with people who are making stuff up.


Ask for (don't smile now) online videos of highly classified new explosive techniques, which are known to be withheld from the public for the well known reasons. Only the bits and pieces I did find in libraries and weapon forums, which are mostly closed down now.
What I did found, has been linked to, by me. That you do not explore it to the boundaries is your problem.


And there we have it. The bombs used are classified, yet you managed to get this classified information from some secret source you can not share. You are one of the few special people on the planet who figured it out. Congratulations. The rest of us sheeple will have to wait until this information becomes public. In the meanwhile we will wrongfully think that these kind of bombs are pure fantasy of some truthers on an internet forum. If only we all were as special as you and had access to this information.


Your point (2) is explained logically. How can breakage of one column exert much more whump on the bedrock than the 12.3 secs later following breakage of all the other same columns combined with all cross beams and the rest? And the thundering down.
The amplitude in that seismogram would have been reversed, small peak first, huge pack of peaks later.


I am not an expert on the matter (just like you), so speculating about this would be fruitless. Inserting explosives into anything we can't directly explain is of course completely silly. It is called an argument from ignorance. Besides, I already put large question marks at your analysis skill. I have exposed how your reasoning is flawed, and have absolutely no confidence in the results of your analysis.


This is only ONE page of one thread :
First, bsbray11 his FAE video : www.abovetopsecret.com...
Then, the barometric bomb discussion started :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Tom of Bedlam's research hint into shattering steel columns like glass :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
My answer : www.abovetopsecret.com...
Tom's answer : www.abovetopsecret.com...
My follow up : www.abovetopsecret.com...
Damocles tuning in : www.abovetopsecret.com...
Me offering Damocles links : www.abovetopsecret.com...
Then up till the page end all the posts by Tom Bedlam, about high-impulse thermobaric like the HIT in the SMAW-D HIT warheads, which is sort of like a SMAW-NE on steroids.
The kinepak (kinetic pack) comment by Tom in his last post is very telling what work he was in. Then it goes on to the next page. read what Tom said here about columns filled with thermobaric mixtures that would bring the towers down, without much of a bang : www.abovetopsecret.com...
Then bsbray11 shows a video of NE and a SMAW fired into a building :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Then Tom answers with this : www.abovetopsecret.com...


Didn't I already pointed out that posts on ATS do not count as a source? I don't care what those people said. I am interested in evidence and actual research, not speculation of what seems to be mostly laymen. The title of your thread says "irrefutable seismic evidence" and not "far fetch speculation by laymen".



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I am still amazed that there are people that have the information, have the intellect to analyze it, yet still hold on so tightly to their irrational perception of reality.
They brought the building down, simple as that. You certainly can debate about "whom" or "why"
but "Pull it" they did.
Mr. Op, you are going to drive your self insane if you think that you will change these hardcore deniers. You even seem willing to try and convince them of the areas that call for great speculation...ie; if a plane was suppose to target the building or not. All that did was entrench these guys and distract you from just sticking to whatever scientific evidence you are presenting. Jesus Christ could tell these guys the building was pulled and they wouldn't change their minds, they are emotionally vested in their position at the expense of facts or truth.

Streamline your evidence, articulate it so a 5th grader could understand, and present it as if your reader has never heard of WTC 7. Don't add theory's of motive or any other conjectures.

keep in mind that there are still people that deny the holocaust, deny that there is anyone gay in Iran, that nobody has been to the moon, that the Earth is flat, and that the world is coming to an end on 12/21/2012. Ignore them or risk your sanity.


Your post is mere assertion. If you have any evidence that WTC 7 was "pulled" why don't you take it to Industrial Risk Insurers ? They were obliged to pay out $861 million in respect of WTC 7.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 


Because dear dman, in every filmed paid demolition you can show me, the experts took extreme care to not be sued for huge sums in collateral damage claims by the neighbors, owners of the sometimes very near adjacent expensive buildings.
And those were all demos, where the buildings first were totally gutted from all interior and exterior walls, and windows.
That's the main reason btw why you hear the explosive sounds in those paid demos so extremely clear.
They blow up in the end, in principle totally open air structures.

WTC 7 was an intact building full of interior dividing walls, doors and door frames, dry walls and the elevator shafts and stair wells were also placed in and around the core columns. and surrounded by the exterior cladding plates and columns.
And there were also the maintenance floors with the strong brick walls in them. It looks that they chose the 14 floors carefully, the upper one was for sure also a reinforced floor.

Copper backed cutter charges don't have the long range explosive power you seem to think they have. Their power lays in the extreme short distance, where 2 mile/sec gas speeds and fluid metal speeds are accomplished that cut easily through thick steel.
Cutter charges are making a short duration, sharp crackling sound, which will not be heard outside where all that sirens noise was. And all people were herded out for 4 blocks already.
Now when we talk about the column displacement charges following the cutter charges in paid demos, that's big ...Booom... stuff.
But that wasn't used. It wasn't a normal demolition, it was a secret demo. They only needed the first cut to be as silent as can be. WATER. Cheap, neutral to any bystander, if camouflaged well enough in every day types of containing vessels. White smoke, puffs, squibs can also mean steam instead of smoke.

Most chance of being used are thermobaric mixtures inside the huge boxed-in columns, that scattered them like glass.
With some well prepared computing, the blast master would have calculated the exact mixture components weights, to achieve the best crack for the lest bang. And they will have done tests first, many of them.

Remember, it was a secret demolition. First goal was at all costs to camouflage the first cutter charge its sound profile. Thus go super low frequency, and use extremely fine dispersed thermobaric mixtures, just enough power to break the intra-molecular steel bonds, and no more. The weight of the building does the rest.
Test, test and test again on identical boxed-in column lengths, until the ultimate desired goal was achieved, cracking of the columns, with no spouting through the cracks of high pressure gas waves, simpler called sound.
then one big thermobaric charge in the cellar, and there it goes down.

Btw, girlz already attended you on the fact that what you see as all glass windows, are many wooden plates installed over shattered windows, numb nutz2.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by -PLB-
 


I think I do at last understand what you are phishing for.
I had the same experience on another forum, a decade ago, dedicated to pure scientific research.

We also got visitors who kept nagging at me, with more and more outright nasty posts.
But all the time asking for the real deal, patent numbers or article names with references lists.
Or the well known publishers, and their scientific publications.

Turned out they did not trust my solid advices, wanted to go "safe" before they started on the path to glory, and waited until you offered them at last what they wanted, the list of scientific publications.

What a sour experience for them, my kind of expertise is not open source, it is very dangerous, secret and suppressed, so what they lured after, could not be found in the University libraries, or you had to be in possession of ultra high level security badges.

I gave them all, one free and sure recipe to richness of mind. Which could not be found in any library.
Only a few of them trusted my writings so strongly, that they followed them to the letter, and succeeded.
They are now very rich happy global friends. Some of them got greedy, and died or got shot by the oppositional agencies.

Btw, the access road to that recipe for unconditional peace of mind is now as good as closed, because it is open source for a decade now, so don't get excited too early.
Only the very persistent ones can still succeed.


In your case however, I taste a nasty spirit, waiting for just one thing, the list of scientific publications regarding thermobaric research.
And what are your plans with it, when you should get that list? Trying to produce them?
I'm quite sure your intentions are not to debate me online about them.

That list is highly classified, Mr would-be terrorist or would-be hired death squad.
Find it yourself.


Didn't I already pointed out that posts on ATS do not count as a source? I don't care what those people said. I am interested in evidence and actual research, not speculation of what seems to be mostly laymen. The title of your thread says "irrefutable seismic evidence" and not "far fetch speculation by laymen".
edit on 29/2/12 by LaBTop because: Forgot to add his "reason".



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


Maybe should get eyes checked....

Notice how most of the windows are still intact at Verizon - except where that large piece of WTC 7 has
speared the building

[img]http://newscenter.verizon.com/kit/wtc/assets/photo4a-2.jpg[/img

[img]http://newscenter.verizon.com/kit/wtc/assets/photo6b-2.jpg[/img

Still - how do you get into an occupied building and cut into the walls to expose the columns without anyone
noticing?

Several friends worked in WTC 7 at Salome Brothers/Smith Barney - told me were packed tighter than
sardines in can

Not likely can start cutting into walls to deploy your mythical "cutter charges" ......



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 


There are always inspection "windows" in that kind of huge boxed-off columns.
I saw several photos of them online.
About 30 by 60 cm. Just lower your calculated ThB device with a thin electrical cord, clamp the cord under the inspection lid, and attach your ignition device to it. Wait for the order to flip the master switch.
...Booom... all interior columns shattered, next ::::Boooooom::::: the milliseconds later column discharge device in the lower levels of those interior columns, best place in the elevator shafts.
Remember, early on already, it was reported by FDNY men that the elevators of WTC 7 had come down in their shafts. And smashed half in the lobby.

I inspected your first photo you posted yesterday already. Man, do you need glasses? Look at all the plywood sheets over all those windows on the right side of that facade......
Which doesn't say anything about what caused it, btw. Debris, or pressure wave? Ot both? You chose.
I bet they planned it very carefully, over decades.
Without huge pressure waves impacting the adjacent buildings.


Very early on, in 2002, there was a curious story about a young man who managed to sneak himself into a group of architects, telling them he was a photographer who had the order to join that team.
That group held meetings every day in WTC 7 and other towers, and talked about the safest way to take the towers apart again, since there was a lurking asbestos problem.
At a certain point in time, the young man had to leave that group, because they started to ask for his credentials.

He went online with his story shortly after 9/11, I saved the story on a HD that years later got stolen from me.
Yes, physically stolen. Borrowed and never returned.

Has anybody else also saved that story on his or her HD ? Willing to repost it here?



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by LaBTop
 


Maybe should get eyes checked....

Notice how most of the windows are still intact at Verizon - except where that large piece of WTC 7 has
speared the building

newscenter.verizon.com...



newscenter.verizon.com...


Still - how do you get into an occupied building and cut into the walls to expose the columns without anyone
noticing?

Several friends worked in WTC 7 at Salome Brothers/Smith Barney - told me were packed tighter than
sardines in can

Not likely can start cutting into walls to deploy your mythical "cutter charges" ......


I repaired your crooked post for you.
The first photo shows a whole vertical line of absent windows, speckled with some bigger debris.
Are you trying to pull our leg, hoping we will not repair your photos which show the opposite of what you try to sell us?
The second photo shows 12 windows of which 9 of the windows show some smaller and bigger impact holes, and 4 of them huge impact holes.
Your first photo from yesterday showed many windows with plywood sheets in front of them, on the right side.

Tell me what floor nr that first above photo has, with that row of dark holes where windows were.
You can find it in your photo from yesterday.
I bet it is somewhere between the 5th and the 19th floor of the WTC 7. Fitting in the 14 floor gap theory.
That supposes two explosive charges floors used, one on the 5th to the 7th floor (the mechanical floors), and one somewhere up to 14 floors higher.
Another possibility would be a basement floor, and 14 floors higher.. thus that line of missing windows would be I think the 12th to the 14th floor of that Verizon building.
edit on 29/2/12 by LaBTop because: Repaired his own post for him. An I nice, or not?



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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And do never forget while you are contemplating on all possibilities, when we assume this building was brought down deliberately, then the first assumption has to be SECRECY.

They did not want to get CAUGHT with the evidence free to get on the Internet, news media and private photos.
They must have meticulously planned in advance all their moves.

In this case, they just needed a logical reason to sell to the public, why WTC 7 collapsed.
As my opponents brought forth already, a non-burning building attracts huge attention when it suddenly collapses.

Thus,
Plan A, fly a third plane in it, same scenario there after as the Twin Towers.
That misfired, plane got shot down above Pennsylvania.
Plan B, arson the whole damn building, and still use the same charges to collapse it later that day.
Get rid of all these curious rescue workers as soon as can be.
Worked partially, too many people kept coming to and in the building, the arsonists succeeded in first instance only to set fire to some 3 floors, after they had sent surveying fire men out of the building, and trapped Mr Hess and company by blowing the stairs out, under them, so they got trapped on the 7th floor.

Then at last after 14:00 p.m., Hess and company was freed and sent away, most people were hushed away to a 4 blocks away perimeter line.
Still small groups of photographers and rescue personnel managed to break through the cordon.
Around 17:20 they were at last sure that all was empty inside the perimeter cordon line.

They flipped the master switch, the 14 floors high portions of the columns got blown to smithereens with a deep ultra low frequency sound, and the final blow was dealt a quarter of a second later, and after that, 14 floors worth of interior came thundering down in 2.3 seconds inside the building with 33 floors worth of top mass above it, followed by a gravitational collapse of the rest of the building in the following 6 seconds.

There were no curious possible ear witnesses anywhere near the building anymore, just reporters and private video camera men behind the perimeter cordoned-off line, 4 blocks away.(+/- 333 meter further away).
Thus no worry about any explosion sound, a reasonable deep thumb was a calculated low risk, easy to argue against with quasi -argumentations.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


I have more news for you.
In fact you did heard that explosion, namely in my NIST video.
It can't get through your stubborn skull, it seems, that if you hear a low frequency rumble in that video, but do not hear anything from the collapse itself in the same video, that something called logic should tell you that you just heard a meager footprint of an immense sound at the source point, after that first second point. And definitely not the cracking of one interior column.
Because I noted for you in another post, that the twice as high Twin Towers, while they were in the process of collapsing, gave off such tremendous sound levels, that nearby cameras did auto-cut down their sound recording levels, and still the noise was deafening. Like you hear the camera doing in your first video.

That means, IF such same camera would have been able to record the WTC 7 collapse from the same distance, that you would have recorded a same sort of sound level.
But in this video, you only hear the muffled sound of a huge explosion.
Why huge? Because you do not even hear after that, the sound of the following huge building collapsing into the bedrock. Thus, that collapse sound was not loud enough to have a chance to be recorded by that far away camera.
That explosion sound we hear, must have been damn loud near the building, an amazingly loud, but very low frequency sound.
And since you are all molded by TV series and films into believing that all explosions are very loud and accompanied by enormous blast waves and flame clouds, you can't accept that those planners used just that type of weapon, to be able to camouflage most of it in the enormous mixing-pot of street noise during that day.

First video is probably not a thermobaric, it looks like an ANFO or FAE where he used 150 kg of some unknown to us chemical. Not a tetrazole. That's what he tried to synthesize later and got hurt. This must have been a fat mixture of high octane fuels like trichloroethane, nitromethane and a lot of diesel or gasoline, mixed with a boatload of ammonium nitrate and f.ex.aluminum powder.
When that really had been 150 kg of a two or three stage sophisticated thermobaric mixture, the operator of that camera would not have lived.
And there would have been a huge deep crater. It's also not wise to detonate a real heavy thermobaric in a closed small container like a car. A thermobaric explosion also has a huge under-pressure effect because it also consumes the 20 % oxygen part from the air at its cloud perimeter. The sudden partial vacuum can rip your lungs out when you're too near.

Second video is posted by me years ago already, with the overly patriotic Asian female scientist in it, eager to "defend this sacred democracy I live in now". How? By developing new ThB bombs, which btw are at near atomic scale in their cruel effects, when detonated. No radiation however.

These videos do not show a real two or three stage ThB, these use petal shaped containers with small spools welded to the bottom, which metal line is rolled off when the first stage is detonated that disperses the gaseous phase, while its top part of the former container pulls that metal line up.
Then the second stage is detonated in the bottom smaller container part of the former big container, the fluid inside it gets thoroughly mixed with the first gaseous mix, and its pressure wave pushes a piezo electrical switch in a barometer box that sends the static electricity through the thin metal line, which now charges the finely dispersed mist of f.ex. a halogen mixture with a metal powder , which then ignites the already spread far out first explosive mist.
You can "dial" the preset pressure for the second stage ignition, thus giving the first stage more or less time to expand. It's a tad bit more detailed regarding the exact formula of the two HE explosives, and the barometric presetting, but it roughly describes how a second generation ThB operates.

Higher stage operating Thermobarics are still classified.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


From page 2 or so, I have been asking for sources for the existence of your bombs. All that time you have been saying I should use search. Now you are saying it is classified and I can't have access to it.

Why didn't you just say so from the start.

The answer is simple. You felt pressured, could not provide, and you had to make up another fantasy in order to get the pressure off. So you made up this fantastic story about you having access to super secret information, and sharing it would endanger everyones life.

right........




So now lets review our tactics.

Me: continuously asking for sources and evidence for your claims. According to you, a really nasty tactic utilized by bad spirited people.

You: avoiding questions, calling me names (liar, greedy capitalist), and sending me on a wild goose chase and the after 10 pages tell me that the information you told me to search for doesn't even exist in the public domain.


It is all up to the reader to determine what tactic is more integer and honest.


By the way, to me it is pretty clear to me that LabTop suffers from a medical condition (though I am not qualified to make such a diagnosis). I don't think he is lying about having access to secret military data. I think he actually believes he does. Nevertheless I will stop responding from now on.
edit on 1-3-2012 by -PLB- because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by headorheart

Originally posted by dayve

Originally posted by spav5

Originally posted by dayve
wth? i think now, even if bush said he flew the plane himself i could care less....


I think you mean..couldn't care less..but the rest of us would like to see justice served. And if not justice..at least the truth.

Peace


I think i had it right the first time around, i could care less.. I'd rather know where carmen sandiego went with my wallet.... It was 11 years ago and people are done mourning, i think the "truth" should be left alone. We got the hijackers leave it at that.


The expression meaning that you don't care at all is "I couldn't care less." What I wanted to address is the fact that you think since it was 11 years ago that its over and people are done mourning. Regardless of if Osama was responsible, the US was responsible, or if the US had prior knowledge and did nothing, thousands of innocent lives were still lost that day. There are still 9/11 heros out there and many family members who will never be over the loss of their loved one. It is very ignorant to say people are done mourning.


Yep, my idiomatic was wrong, i did mean it the other way around... And your correct about the other statement, thats why im leaving this thread alone. We should just say bush did it, and then he should be shot, then everybody happy.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 



Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by -PLB-
 

What a sour experience for them, my kind of expertise is not open source, it is very dangerous, secret and suppressed, so what they lured after, could not be found in the University libraries, or you had to be in possession of ultra high level security badges.

I gave them all, one free and sure recipe to richness of mind. Which could not be found in any library.
Only a few of them trusted my writings so strongly, that they followed them to the letter, and succeeded.
They are now very rich happy global friends. Some of them got greedy, and died or got shot by the oppositional agencies.

In your case however, I taste a nasty spirit, waiting for just one thing, the list of scientific publications regarding thermobaric research.
.
.
.
That list is highly classified, Mr would-be terrorist or would-be hired death squad.
Find it yourself.


EPIC. This post is going in the signature. Secret knowledge, Skullduggery, Silent Weapons for Secret Wars, AND NO LINKS.

It never happened.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
reply to post by LaBTop
 



Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by -PLB-
 

What a sour experience for them, my kind of expertise is not open source, it is very dangerous, secret and suppressed, so what they lured after, could not be found in the University libraries, or you had to be in possession of ultra high level security badges.

I gave them all, one free and sure recipe to richness of mind. Which could not be found in any library.
Only a few of them trusted my writings so strongly, that they followed them to the letter, and succeeded.
They are now very rich happy global friends. Some of them got greedy, and died or got shot by the oppositional agencies.

In your case however, I taste a nasty spirit, waiting for just one thing, the list of scientific publications regarding thermobaric research.
.
.
.
That list is highly classified, Mr would-be terrorist or would-be hired death squad.
Find it yourself.


EPIC. This post is going in the signature. Secret knowledge, Skullduggery, Silent Weapons for Secret Wars, AND NO LINKS.

It never happened.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by GenRadek
 


First quote : News for you. WTC 1 and 2 both had 3 massive concrete with steel bars reinforced mechanical floors, and it had a MUCH stiffer core than the Windsor tower, existing of 47 huge, massive, immense thick steel columns. Enforced with massive cross beams between the core columns.


Couldnt be more wrong. I see your research skills severely lacking. WTC 1 and 2 only had vertical steel columns arranged in a box pattern for the elevators, stairwells, and any other necessary internal plumbings, so to speak. The only concrete used was for the floor areas themselves and the stairs. Everything else was clad with sheetrock and drywall. Windsor Tower had a massive core that had vertical CONCRETE and STEEL columns in addition to large concrete floors inside, AND it had a massive CONCRETE technical floor located between the 16th and 17th floor.

The building featured two heavily reinforced concrete transfer structures (technical floors) between the 2nd and 3rd Floors, and between the 16th and 17th Floors respectively..................
The reinforced concrete central core, columns, waffle slabs and transfer structures performed very well in such a severe fire.
What survived was the CONCRETE core.
Maybe you can show me where the WTCs had steel reinforced concrete columns in their design.



In effect a much stronger construction than the relatively cheap build Windsor tower.
And you should take a closer look at the combined time tables 1 and 2 for the Windsor tower I posted. The buckling and partial collapsing took hours, not 13 seconds.


No, no, no, Windsor was not the cheaper weaker building.
WTC did NOT have concrete encased columns, did NOT have massive concrete technical floors like Windsor's. Also, The buckling and collapses began within 2 1/2 hours of fire ignition, but did not have a 767 impact it at 450+mph and knocked a hole in it spreading multiple fires over multiple floors. Man oh man, LaBTop, you have serious gaps in your memory and research, not to mention critical thinking. WTC 1 and 2 were impacted, had severe damage done AND it had uncontrolled fires that spread over multiple floors. It is no wonder they fell faster than an undamaged structure with a far slower fire spread. And as for WTC7, it had fires burning out of control for many hours before it collapsed, and it TOO had damage done to it. WTC7 did NOT have a massive concrete core either.



Second quote : You missed the word "hot". I was talking about the Twin Towers, who were hot up high. WTC 7 was hot down there. Hunt the fire : a thought game.


Ah so we are now playing the "jumping game" where we jump from one item to the next and back, when cornered on one. Ok, I'll play. I thought we were talking about WTC7, but now its WTC1 and 2. Very well.



You're an easy opponent. You are so eager to get me down, that you jump over my text. You should be more cautious, and much slower in your angry responses.


Does your mirror also say, "You are the fairest of them all?"

I have seen your style of work before, and it is like a big white elephant. Sure it looks all intimidating and such, but its more like shooting fish in a barrel.


Well, it turns out I can. With water. That turns into steam when an explosive is set off inside it. Remember the squibs discussion. That's what it was. Cutter charges hidden in water containers. Think of your own kind of container, any kind. Like an elevator shaft end.

And i dont quite fully understand where this came from, but ok....... Cutter charges hidden in water containers. Right. Wow, even more stuff that had to be snuck into (I assume we are back to Seven now?) WTC7, without anyone noticing. Placing huge containers of water around the cutter charges. Ok, alright, but I see another problem already. You are talking on and on about thermobaric explosives. (I'll wait a second for the laughter of the well versed ATS members to die down before I continue. ........ ....... ...... Ok) Now again, are you even remotely aware of how a thermobaric weapon works? Also are you aware that thermobaric weapons are practically USELESS when used underwater, or surrounded by water? Do you know why? But far be it for me to poke holes in your fantas... I mean, theory.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 



Ever been on a Mine Sweeping vessel? Felt the ...Whump? No majestic ...Bang... at all? But a huge water and steam mixture fountain spouting up from the sea.
A depth charge set-off under water will end up on a seismogram. Same goes for a torpedo. Ask your NAVY.
Remember the flooded elevator shaft ends. Rodriguez saving two persons from one, they were nearly drowned. The whole damn underground floors were flooded with 10 cm water from the broken huge water mains pipe in the dry wall around the WTC complex. It flooded down in all shafts.


Nope, never had. But I have thrown fireworks into lakes before and sand. Pretty fun. This has what to do with thermobaric explosives again?



To answer the rest : There exists a whole library of videos with audio records for the Twin Tower collapses.
There exists also a small library for the WTC 7 collapse. Nearly all do not contain the sound of the collapse itself. Only this one from NIST.
(Thank you saint from NIST who managed to smuggle this one through into the FOIA map! Hats off.)
Btw, cutter charges going off are outright disappointing in their sound spectrum. Ask our explosives expert, Damocles.



But there really is no sound of explosives going off. Much less any thermobaric weapons or explosives. Have you figured out the error of using any thermobaric weapons in water? I'll wait.



I also see you missed the videos from Rick Seagel, with those very deep rumble sounds registered on his camera while he was filming on a Peer in the Hudson River, on the other side of Manhattan.
General, you have no military background. Go studying posts by Damocles and Tom Bedlam, they are experts.
And even they were not in the real know of the latest 4th and 5th generation thermobarics.


Rick Segal, yes, the "wind on the mic" videos. The ones that magically managed to pick up those high powered muffled water squelched thermobaric explosives that were silenced and muted to all nearby, but not miles away.
WOW! Talk about a physics nightmare. So, let me untangle this disaster. You claim that the reason why we didnt hear any sharp bangs or explosives standing next to or very close to WTC7 because thermobaric devices were used that create a "rumbling" explosion (how that works I have no idea since thermobaric explosives are usually more powerful than conventional explosives and they'd be louder, but how can one regulate the blast of a thermobaric device and direct the blast into a specific column(s) efficiently, even though the whole premise of a thermobaric device is that aerosolizes a liquid fuel which mixes with the surrounding oxygen to the proper proportion needed to create the most efficient and powerful blast on ignition to create a massive overpressure rather than a "cutting" effect) but they were further silenced by being surrounded by massive containers of water (which somehow had allowed the fuel-air device to go through its proper aeroslization and mixing with the atmosphere and then ignition of the blast, and somehow directed it towards the steel beam without being absorbed by the water) which were somehow snuck into the building and rigged up and filled with tons of water (water aint light you know. 1 cubic meter of water = 1 ton) and then detonated, which somehow muffled it to a low rumble, which really wasnt noticed by anyone near the WTC7 prior to collapse, but was somehow magically recorded miles away on another camera clearly. Wow! That is some serious fantasy there.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 



Third quote : No, would-be expert that you are. An FAE is a totally different device than a 2-or 3-stage thermobaric, see my last post with the list of links, and that is only 2 pages worth of discussions between people who really know what they are talking about, not a tin soldier like you, posing as a brick hard military man. Return to a state of mind where you search for the truth, not for revenge for insults.
I prefer an FAE in a closed off building above a thermobaric thrown at me. No chance at all in the latter case.
A good hiding spot and I will live through the FAE, perhaps some burns and less hair.


I am for the truth. I am insulted and out for revenge when others willfully lie and spread disinformation in the name of truth. I will sit idly by and allow dishonesty, ignorance, and lies to spread and poison uninformed and gullible minds.

An FAE is a thermobaric device using liquid fuel. Thermobarics are fuel rich devices that have an initial blast and the secondary blast resulting from the ignition of the fuel which creates the devastating over-pressures. Usually metallized fuel is used for the catalyst, but it requires the distribution in air for detonation. However, you cannot concentrate an FAE against a steel column and hope it severs it just right. The best example is to take a gascan filled with gasoline, and set next to it a can of aluminum powder, and then have both the gasoline and powder be aerosolized together and ignited by either another explosive or torch. The blast maybe big and fancy but it sure as hell isnt going to slice through a light pole.

You may need some education on thermobaric explosives:
Thermobarics



Smile. I see you have read some of my links, but used the wrong texts from the wrong guys. And also mixed it up with the wrong conclusions.
You are the one who does not have a grip on the inner workings of a thermobaric weapon.

And does not know how to enjoy the pleasure of civil social intercourse.


Oh boy and yet you believe that surrounding a thermobaric device with WATER is somehow going to make the blast work?



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by LaBTop
***snip***
I can behave condescending too :


I have noticed on several occasions.



You're a journalist or a student of journalism?


D minus for not spotting that I said "a friend of mine".



It's: address, roof line and collapse.
My first advice : use a spell checker.


B plus for being able to spell better than a Dane who has English as his fourth language.

Sorry - I can't use a spell checker. It was erased by someone who hacked into my computer seconds after my first critical post on ATS.




Please enlighten me where I wrote this (especially the "own admission" part of it) :
"".... your timeline, by your own admission, is measured from the time that the roof line starting to go down.""

***snip***


What can I say except that "SEARCH is your friend" as you have pointed out so often.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by -PLB-
 


I think I do at last understand what you are phishing for.
I had the same experience on another forum, a decade ago, dedicated to pure scientific research.

We also got visitors who kept nagging at me, with more and more outright nasty posts.
But all the time asking for the real deal, patent numbers or article names with references lists.
Or the well known publishers, and their scientific publications.

Turned out they did not trust my solid advices, wanted to go "safe" before they started on the path to glory, and waited until you offered them at last what they wanted, the list of scientific publications.

What a sour experience for them, my kind of expertise is not open source, it is very dangerous, secret and suppressed, so what they lured after, could not be found in the University libraries, or you had to be in possession of ultra high level security badges.

I gave them all, one free and sure recipe to richness of mind. Which could not be found in any library.
Only a few of them trusted my writings so strongly, that they followed them to the letter, and succeeded.
They are now very rich happy global friends. Some of them got greedy, and died or got shot by the oppositional agencies.

Btw, the access road to that recipe for unconditional peace of mind is now as good as closed, because it is open source for a decade now, so don't get excited too early.
Only the very persistent ones can still succeed.


In your case however, I taste a nasty spirit, waiting for just one thing, the list of scientific publications regarding thermobaric research.
And what are your plans with it, when you should get that list? Trying to produce them?
I'm quite sure your intentions are not to debate me online about them.

That list is highly classified, Mr would-be terrorist or would-be hired death squad.
Find it yourself.


Didn't I already pointed out that posts on ATS do not count as a source? I don't care what those people said. I am interested in evidence and actual research, not speculation of what seems to be mostly laymen. The title of your thread says "irrefutable seismic evidence" and not "far fetch speculation by laymen".
edit on 29/2/12 by LaBTop because: Forgot to add his "reason".


Fabulous piece of misdirection.

Congratz.

(sorry - sbellchecker still out)



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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If there is one thing which I have learned from 9/11, and I would advise others to observe, is:

DON'T EVER RENT OFFICE SPACE IN HIGH RISE BUILDINGS !!!

All of those who had an office in Building 7 were rudely evicted on that date.

I will admit it took almost all day to do it, but they all had to find new office space without advance notice.

How rude can you get ???









 
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