Men (Masculinity) Dangerous to Society?

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by Starchild23
And another thing. If you really want to talk about this "masculinity paradigm" crap...

I have noticed that while females want to have the same rights as men, they still prefer to be treated like china. In other words, they want to choose whether to be responsible or not, and interchange it day to day. They want to live the heavenly life, while men have no choice but to slave away.

IT amuses them, it relaxes them, it pleases them, whatever.

No. No, no, and NO! You don't get it both ways. If we work, you work. If you play, we can play too. If you want to go out and buy a new pair of shoes every weekend, we can go and splurge at the bar every friday and saturday. We are not your personal slaves, and you are not goddesses who can choose the schedule fate gives you.

You are not special. You are human, just like all of us. Live life like the rest of us, with its ups and downs. Stop playing mental games, and stop seeing problems where there are none. Stop picking fights to take out your frustrations, and start realizing the guy you're dating is a douche, and that man who's been your best friend for years is secretly in love with you.

You pretend you know everything, you get insulted when someone implies you don't...get with the program: YOU ARE HUMAN.

Start acting like it, and stop playing, "Little Miss Gift to the World." You are not perfect, and neither is your life. Accept it. And here's my little confession: sometimes, I think women act the way they do because they are the most insecure of them all. They feel the need to doll up and play games and do whatever...because they are lost and insecure.

Maybe if they stopped pretending to be helpless females, they might not be insecure, and then we'd all be happy HUMANS. Female =/= Insecure. Stop acting like it does. If you wanted to rule the world, you could, just like any man. Don't act weak, don't act coy, don't be anything except a strong woman, because no woman is incapable. Look at Stephen Hawking! He's a man, and he's crippled, and he's a freakin' genius! Now you're a healthy woman, full of life and vigor, and you can't do as well as he has? Bull#!

Stop playing at being the damsel in distress. Stop playing at being high and mighty. Just...BE. Be yourself. Be strong. Be human.

I'm finished here...I'll leave it to the other men to get their points across. I just thought if someone was going to start a feminism thread, I would interject some masculinity in the interest of equality.

Namaste.

edit on CFridaypm070700f00America/Chicago24 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

edit on CFridaypm525204f04America/Chicago24 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

Almost a daily occurrence for me. This post nailed it exactly.

I find it ironic that he signs off on that screed with "Namaste".

Amazing.

Originally posted by NorEaster
Did you know that ultimate enlightenment is expressed as passive magnanimity and broad inclusiveness - which are both relatively Feminine existential imperative expressions? Where are all the enlightened ATSers on this topic? Where are all the ego (Masculine imperative expression) dismissing eclectics that usually leap into threads in this forum with claims of having achieved ego-death? The imperative gender expression that you guys rant on about is expressly Feminine, and yet I'm not seeing anyone of you defending the relatively Feminine expression here.

Weird.

There's a difference between approving the Feminine expression, and degrading the Masculine expression in its name...

Just because I prefer Jeeps doesn't mean I go around bashing Toyotas. They work just as well...they're just not my style. Hey, if you can drive it, go for it. But don't disparage my choice in wheels, because mine works just as well as yours.

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by Starchild23
And another thing. If you really want to talk about this "masculinity paradigm" crap...

I have noticed that while females want to have the same rights as men, they still prefer to be treated like china. In other words, they want to choose whether to be responsible or not, and interchange it day to day. They want to live the heavenly life, while men have no choice but to slave away.

IT amuses them, it relaxes them, it pleases them, whatever.

No. No, no, and NO! You don't get it both ways. If we work, you work. If you play, we can play too. If you want to go out and buy a new pair of shoes every weekend, we can go and splurge at the bar every friday and saturday. We are not your personal slaves, and you are not goddesses who can choose the schedule fate gives you.

You are not special. You are human, just like all of us. Live life like the rest of us, with its ups and downs. Stop playing mental games, and stop seeing problems where there are none. Stop picking fights to take out your frustrations, and start realizing the guy you're dating is a douche, and that man who's been your best friend for years is secretly in love with you.

You pretend you know everything, you get insulted when someone implies you don't...get with the program: YOU ARE HUMAN.

Start acting like it, and stop playing, "Little Miss Gift to the World." You are not perfect, and neither is your life. Accept it. And here's my little confession: sometimes, I think women act the way they do because they are the most insecure of them all. They feel the need to doll up and play games and do whatever...because they are lost and insecure.

Maybe if they stopped pretending to be helpless females, they might not be insecure, and then we'd all be happy HUMANS. Female =/= Insecure. Stop acting like it does. If you wanted to rule the world, you could, just like any man. Don't act weak, don't act coy, don't be anything except a strong woman, because no woman is incapable. Look at Stephen Hawking! He's a man, and he's crippled, and he's a freakin' genius! Now you're a healthy woman, full of life and vigor, and you can't do as well as he has? Bull#!

Stop playing at being the damsel in distress. Stop playing at being high and mighty. Just...BE. Be yourself. Be strong. Be human.

I'm finished here...I'll leave it to the other men to get their points across. I just thought if someone was going to start a feminism thread, I would interject some masculinity in the interest of equality.

Namaste.

edit on CFridaypm070700f00America/Chicago24 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

edit on CFridaypm525204f04America/Chicago24 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

Almost a daily occurrence for me. This post nailed it exactly.

I find it ironic that he signs off on that screed with "Namaste".

Amazing.

As long as we're on a bashing thread, I thought I'd level the field. I will not apologize for doing so. As I have stated multiple times in the course of this multi-way correspondence, I am a huge fan of the Divine Duality. Even the Christian cross (as I may have noted here - I'm not sure) expresses duality, as well as the overlap between Man and God.

I love duality. It's the nature of the universe. But when someone comes in and acts like everything is the fault of one gender, don't expect me to sit back and say, "Hey, you're right. Hillary Clinton for President!"

Because duality does not undermine. Duality combines and amplifies. It's a bonding of two essential elements...

This is not bonding. This is slander and bias.

...

oh, and Namaste

reply to post by NorEaster


It was an excellent post, kudos to the one who wrote it....as to your implication - try harder.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by NorEaster

 

It was an excellent post, kudos to the one who wrote it....as to your implication - try harder.

That would be me. yes, I try to get points across...sometimes I'm too blunt, but if you look past the cutting-edge sarcasm, I'm usually at least half right.

If not, then I will correct myself.

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by NorEaster
Did you know that ultimate enlightenment is expressed as passive magnanimity and broad inclusiveness - which are both relatively Feminine existential imperative expressions? Where are all the enlightened ATSers on this topic? Where are all the ego (Masculine imperative expression) dismissing eclectics that usually leap into threads in this forum with claims of having achieved ego-death? The imperative gender expression that you guys rant on about is expressly Feminine, and yet I'm not seeing anyone of you defending the relatively Feminine expression here.

Weird.

There's a difference between approving the Feminine expression, and degrading the Masculine expression in its name...

Just because I prefer Jeeps doesn't mean I go around bashing Toyotas. They work just as well...they're just not my style. Hey, if you can drive it, go for it. But don't disparage my choice in wheels, because mine works just as well as yours.

edit on CSaturdaypm414138f38America/Chicago25 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

So, Starchildren drive Jeeps? This is all too much revelation for me. I didn't know that there were ascendant beings that got their britches in a twist over the opinions of those who don't agree with them. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that they'd suffer from bouts of public competitiveness. All that carnal passion, and primitive "me and my kind" crap, would seem to be well below the conscious perspective of an ascendant star being. Does your guru know that you're being this aggressive over this relatively benign topic in public?

You could argue most woman are attracted to the more masculine types which encourages the stereotypes. You have also concentrated on specific crimes ignoring prostitution among other crimes the will be predominately female. Men are not dangerous, just idiots and greedy people with a lack of morals. I suspect if a guy created a post similar to the OP targeting woman you would say they were sexist.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

One last thought, while men may physically lash out (I've seen plenty of women do this too though lately) - many women play psychological games that hurt as bad or worse than a physical beating.

Many thanks to you for this.

This is the precise definition of this thread. Men punch, women...talk. It's more fatal than it sounds. Have you ever thought that maybe every woman in the world knows each other? Yeah...imagine what they can do with that.

Wounds of the flesh heal with time...wounds of the heart end up causing Columbine.

Women are indeed deadly. They've perfected the weapon that can be neither bought nor traced.

Moral of my story in this thread: we all have flaws. But I think the reason for duality in this instance is to balance out our flaws and learn to be the most perfect beings we can be. Women teach emotion and intuition, men teach strength and perseverance.

What's not to love?

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by NorEaster
Did you know that ultimate enlightenment is expressed as passive magnanimity and broad inclusiveness - which are both relatively Feminine existential imperative expressions? Where are all the enlightened ATSers on this topic? Where are all the ego (Masculine imperative expression) dismissing eclectics that usually leap into threads in this forum with claims of having achieved ego-death? The imperative gender expression that you guys rant on about is expressly Feminine, and yet I'm not seeing anyone of you defending the relatively Feminine expression here.

Weird.

There's a difference between approving the Feminine expression, and degrading the Masculine expression in its name...

Just because I prefer Jeeps doesn't mean I go around bashing Toyotas. They work just as well...they're just not my style. Hey, if you can drive it, go for it. But don't disparage my choice in wheels, because mine works just as well as yours.

edit on CSaturdaypm414138f38America/Chicago25 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

So, Starchildren drive Jeeps? This is all too much revelation for me. I didn't know that there were ascendant beings that got their britches in a twist over the opinions of those who don't agree with them. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that they'd suffer from bouts of public competitiveness. All that carnal passion, and primitive "me and my kind" crap, would seem to be well below the conscious perspective of an ascendant star being. Does your guru know that you're being this aggressive over this relatively benign topic in public?

Want some cheese with your whine?

This is too funny. Give me a moment to respond in full, I have to stop laughing first.

Originally posted by OwenGP185
You could argue most woman are attracted to the more masculine types which encourages the stereotypes. You have also concentrated on specific crimes ignoring prostitution among other crimes the will be predominately female. Men are not dangerous, just idiots and greedy people with a lack of morals. I suspect if a guy created a post similar to the OP targeting woman you would say they were sexist.

Let's not even get started on the topic of feminine attraction...there is absolutely no logic applicable to the matter. If there was, domestic abuse cases would drop by over half.

Nuff said.

Originally posted by femalepharoe
reply to post by Starchild23

 

sexism , like racism, is a social construct based on priveleage and power.

At present, women make 75 cents to the dollar in comparison to men. Class wise, women have no social power over men - and thus can not be sexist.

...That is a whole nother discussion. But just thought I would help you out with that.

Women can be sexist as well. Just because they do not make the same money on average does not make them above men in sexism. There are plenty of women who feel that their victim status gives them a special status to be unfair, and calculating and mendacious. There are plenty of men who have been arrested for domestic violence, but never convicted. Yet their arrest record is held against them. There are cases of women cheering for women for cutting off a man's penis for whatever slight that can never compare to the mayhem and mutilation of losing a special body part. And yes there are women who have done acid attacks on men. Just because someone is a member of some victim group, doesn't mean they can't be biased and prejudiced.

Originally posted by iamconcerned
reply to post by femalepharoe

 

AHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA Thanks so much for my weekend humor fix. Let's just get rid of men, that way we can all listen to our Melissa Etheridge CD's in peace, without being reminded of how much she sucks. After all, when men stop producing things that create wealth, then all the teachers, social services, single mom benefits will just keep arriving based on.... whose wealth? Your gig of having everything handed to you as a woman is completely dependent on men paying for it. Men are now in revolt. They won't marry you, they won't work their ass off so you can steal it in a divorce after two years, and they definitely no longer work harder because you decided to have a kid against his wishes, they usually end up going to jail instead (part of your 95% convenient). So now, since men would rather play video games than put up with feminist nightmares like you, and your free ride for being a woman with kids is coming to an end since nobody is paying for it, now you come here and spoooooge all over us. CLASSIC.

Whoa, and people here keep saying women are ruled by our emotions. Good rant and I can see why a man would hold that perspective so I won't argue the validity of it, but what has that got to do with addressing the problem of male rates of violent crime and prosecutable anti social behavior being far higher than those for
females? Let's face it when I have to go shopping after sunset it's not the other women I'm as scared of in the parking lot and for good reason...though I do keep an eye on everyone.

Getting back to the OP I don't think masculinity is the problem in current times. I now see both genders acting out in inappropriate ways and sure enough there is usually a parent standing there in silent witness, not imposing any consequence for the action. Because they see the kid as an extension of themselves and these days it's all about me, me, me and screw everybody else that has to put up with my wonderful self.

In my grandad's day masculinity was one of the best assets going because moms, dads, grandparents, aunts, uncles and the whole community were standing by to make sure little Joey took all that marvelous energy and get go granted by his testosterone and channeled it into being a strong, responsible, dependable gentleman who took personal account for his actions. Whether he grew into a clerk or a soldier, being a man wasn't just about commanding respect, but also showing respect to others and his environment. We do still have men like this and people do still raise their boys up this way but the problem is they are this way despite the dictates of modern society, instead of because of.

Where we fail now as males and females is understanding the concept that we alone are responsible for our actions and we make or break our own happiness by the choices we make and the activities we undertake. We've become hedonists who will try to justify all kinds of things that are bad for society as a whole and for ourselves if these things give us some form of instant gratification or perceived personal advantage over the other guy....or gal.

sexism , like racism, is a social construct based on priveleage and power.

At present, women make 75 cents to the dollar in comparison to men. Class wise, women have no social power over men - and thus can not be sexist.

...That is a whole nother discussion. But just thought I would help you out with that.

I'm pretty sure minimum wage is the same everywhere. I might be wrong thought. Can't answer for people who are working under the table...hey, if you want fair wages, try something that involves brainwork instead of diploma-absent drudge work.

Also, this thread just begs to discuss sexism. Especially when you spend the whole OP taking a crack at half of America. Don't expect to walk away unscathed.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain


There's a simple answer to this. MEN AREN'T ALONE.

Don't worry, I'll keep bringing it back to the women until they accept they hold just as much blame as we do.

It's about time we started pointing the finger back. I've dealt with this one lady for the past few weeks who acts all high and mighty like she can do nothing wrong. She decided to go back to this douche she was seeing just for the kicks of it, then she gets an illness from various "activities" with him and she blames it all on him.

And every time I point out how SHE went back to HIM, she gets mad. Nope, I have no sympathy for this thread. I've been itching to bring the injustice out of the closet.

And for this opportunity, I thank you all.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by NorEaster

 

It was an excellent post, kudos to the one who wrote it....as to your implication - try harder.

Try harder to do what? Notice? What more was there to notice about the bizarre juxtaposition of the post's tenor and content relative to the Feminine nature of the salutation? Yes, the Hindu philosophy is an expressly Feminine philosophy (relatively speaking of course, as no expression is purely Masculine or Feminine)

Me, I'm definitely Masculine in how I express myself and how I address the business of existential survival. I'm also aware of what I bring to the table as a male, and nowhere do I see myself as being qualified to set anyone else's agenda or to lead anything other than a frontal assault. I know what I am, and I'm comfortable with it. I'm not intimidated by the fact that some people are much better at leadership than I am.

That said, not all women are leaders, and not all men are warriors. Still, the true Masculine expression is isolative and competitive, and the true Feminine expression is inclusive and compassionate. Not all women are Feminine and not all men are Masculine, and that okay too. What is also true is that if someone points out a gender-specific behavioral trend, they are not accusing all members of that gender with adopting that behavior. Every set of stats that exist do reflect that men (in general) on Planet Earth are much more violent than women (in general) on Planet Earth are, and while that's a fact, it's not indicative of all men on Planet Earth. Some of the nicest and most compassionate people on Planet Earth are also men, but that does not prove the rule when it come to examining the entire human race as a whole.

What I've enjoyed is how much aggression has been on display by guys who are denying that only men are expressly aggressive and competitive by nature. The men to women %'s in this thread (post counts only) have turned this thread into a sausage-fest. I just find that ironic.

reply to post by Starchild23


Starchild, you are saying everything that proves what her initial post states. Women are of strength too. Men are of emotion, too. That emotion is a violent emotion. Not all men act with violence, but many, many do. If it is not physical, it is verbal(as you have done, without even stopping to breathe and read and realize you are), and/or mental abuse.
I have noticed for several years now another strange, upsetting behavior in a lot of men over 40. Not generalizing this is so for all, at all. I know it isn't. But the sexual molestations, pedophiles and so on, seem to be more of an over 40 thing.
I am disgusted by this activity. That is an emotion. Are you not? If you are that is an emotion.
I take care of myself in this world, financially. I have accomplished many goals, and I am still not done with all dreams, and goals. That is strength. I am strong.
I see you are defensive about the her statistic findings, and I want to ask what the real reason is, like the root, but frankly I already feel I have seen the root of your defensive attack. It is a form of blind fury that will rattle out quick "knock you back in your place" statements, that is coming from the masculine quick emotional temper.
I wish that you and others could help with with real issue with real thought provoking words.

love and peace

reply to post by NorEaster


Yes, it is ironic. Would you like me to start a feminine bashing thread and see how many women answer? And I'm sure there'll be a few guys chipping in on their defense as well.

Or you could do it. Then I get to have fun....again.

The OP, and subsequent posts are horribly sexist. It appears that the OP has a personal axe to grind, some chip on the shoulder, and feels like bashing "masculinity" will somehow make things better?

Maybe this isn't the case. Perhaps the OP simply wants to better the world. Although the OP also has stated the costs of keeping people in prison, which seems more like a selfish reason and not a noble reasoning such as the proposed betterment of the world.

The OP wants to look at the statistics, but one has to wonder does that apply to all cases? If I can show that crimes are being committed by a certain group can we get rid of that group as well? If I can keep showing that it's a certain group can we keep getting rid of more groups?

It's a very selfish, and dangerous way to think like that. As was once said:
" First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
"



One particular comment I have a problem with is this:

sexism , like racism, is a social construct based on priveleage and power.

At present, women make 75 cents to the dollar in comparison to men. Class wise, women have no social power over men - and thus can not be sexist.

...That is a whole nother discussion. But just thought I would help you out with that.

This argument proposes that women cannot be sexist, and implies that if your a minority you cannot be racist. That is far from true in both instances. Just because the situation the OP finds themselves in doesn't mean that it holds true for all situations. There are women who are sexist, and there are blacks who are racist.
Hate crimes against whites



Additionally the OP contradicts themselves numerous times. The compare men and women several times, and one would assume they are trying to argue for equality. If they want women to be treated equally, then we should assume they are naturally intrinsically equal as well. If they are equal on that level then by definition they must also be able to act in a sexist fashion.

If women are truly equal to men, then they must be able to be sexist as well. If they claim that women cannot be sexist, as stated in the quote above, then either A) men cannot be sexist, or B) Women cannot be equal to men.

Originally posted by MoEskiMo
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Starchild, you are saying everything that proves what her initial post states. Women are of strength too. Men are of emotion, too. That emotion is a violent emotion. Not all men act with violence, but many, many do. If it is not physical, it is verbal(as you have done, without even stopping to breathe and read and realize you are), and/or mental abuse.
I have noticed for several years now another strange, upsetting behavior in a lot of men over 40. Not generalizing this is so for all, at all. I know it isn't. But the sexual molestations, pedophiles and so on, seem to be more of an over 40 thing.
I am disgusted by this activity. That is an emotion. Are you not? If you are that is an emotion.
I take care of myself in this world, financially. I have accomplished many goals, and I am still not done with all dreams, and goals. That is strength. I am strong.
I see you are defensive about the her statistic findings, and I want to ask what the real reason is, like the root, but frankly I already feel I have seen the root of your defensive attack. It is a form of blind fury that will rattle out quick "knock you back in your place" statements, that is coming from the masculine quick emotional temper.
I wish that you and others could help with with real issue with real thought provoking words.

love and peace

Did I say we weren't? Did I say THEY weren't? I am saying that is the primary nature...and if you doubt me, try Googling it. Animal instinct pretty much determines how we feel in what situations..and then it gets complicated after our personalities engage. Your opinion is just an opinion (like mine) until you prove me wrong.

I am not defensive about her statistics. It simply confirms that our nation is royally #ed. My real issue is that women act like they can do no wrong...and when they do, they blame it on the men. When men do wrong, they may not apologize, but they fix it. Women just blame everyone else. Trust me, I've seen it done more often than not. I remember things my mother doesn't...and I have noted things my friends have done that I didn't particularly approve of. But hey, they're women. Which means completely exempt.

Oh? And what's the REAL issue you're referring to? I'm interested to hear this.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Yes, it is ironic. Would you like me to start a feminine bashing thread and see how many women answer? And I'm sure there'll be a few guys chipping in on their defense as well.

Or you could do it. Then I get to have fun....again.

Do what you wish. It's your afternoon to enjoy. I'm having fun here already.