Men (Masculinity) Dangerous to Society?

This was a prior thought that I chose to revisit in the wake of the 5 publicized NYC sex assualts this month by teachers/aids, the disgusting Jerry Sandusky revelation , and the upcoming trial of Ravi (the Rutgers student who videotaped his gay roomate).

In the discussions I've read pertaining to the first two, a lot of people said that a solution was to educate children on what is "appropriate" touching and what is not, and to expose the offenders immediately if the children feel uncomfortable. Though I would agree that this may be a productive conversation to have with children in this sick world in which we live - many abuse victims are targeted at an incredibly early age.

To a certain extent , is it not also tainting a childs innocence to bombard a 4/5/6/7 year old with "Signs of a Sexually Depraved Person"?? Or should we insist that any man studying to be a teacher has to go through additional therapy training ?

In the later , the article expressed that Ravi's defense stratergy is actually that he "may" be immature but certainly not a criminal. Some people agreed.

In what universe is covertly recording someone in initmate sexual acts, and then showing them via public media - solely seen as immature and not Criminal??

Most of violent crimes and sexual assualts on children and adults are overwhelmingly commited by males. (PLEASE NOTE: this is not to say that women have not, will not, or do not have the capacity to do so)

Yet , society refuses to acknowledge these statistics in order to examine the dangers of their "masculinity" cultivation into society. There is an excellent documentary called Tough Guise (produced by heterosexual men; it can be seen on Google) that investigates this problem.

Some gems include:


"Media are crucial to constraining men to seeing violent masculinity as the cultural norm -- there is a growing connection in society betwen being a man and being violent (lots of statistics about men being the violent ones -- 85% of murders are by men; 95% domestic violence is by men; 99% of rapes in prison are by men, etc.)

Men perpetrate 90% of the violence in society, and society (in media especially) tends to focus on the subordinated groups, not the dominant ones.

The invisibility of masculinity is played out -- media say it is "kids killing kids" --not that it is boys killing boys and girls, not girls doing the killing -- and so must be tied to masculinity. "

Examples of New York Times, etc. support this. In addition if a male teacher molests children they state it was "a teacher/teachers aide" yet if a WOMAN does it they make sure to distinguish the sex. This is specifically sub conscious as we generally are shocked when we do morally depraved things, not so much the case with men.


The director/reseracher implies that if you don't say it, you leave out the important element in the subsequent discussion, and I agree. It is noted that when women are violent, it is almost always an important part of the story ; we need to make it visible -- Making how violent masculinity is visible is the first step to seeing how it operates in the culture.


Can the mass numbers of pedophiles , rapists, domestic assaulters,and violent criminals be attributed to men suffering from an identity chrises?

Are "boys being boys" , upholding a self damaging paradigm that society has molded for them Killing our world?

If the statistics, or (if you're not one for statistics) the general rule of thumb that strange men (or even familiar male relatives) can not be trusted, boys are violent , and that they will laugh at and secretly video tape their gay roomates are common place;

it can only be seen Not as a diesease- but as a symptom of the impossilbe standard of "masculinity" and how it is damaging our men , women and children repeatedly.

And here come the -

*gets run over by a stampede of men*

Seriously, can the sexism in this thread get any thicker? You just opened a can of ungodly stink, ma'am.

Every man came from a woman, and every woman was made by a man. One person has genitalia that pokes out, the other has genitalia that pokes in. What's the real difference between the two? Both live and die. Neither is special, and neither is better than the other. Without men, women wouldn't exist. And without women, men wouldn't exist. Get over yourself, and let's all be happy together.

Sometimes, I think sexism is insecurity in its purest form...

And women wonder why men are always frustrated? Stop degrading them!

So you propose we do what exactly?
Get rid of men? Seems kinda hopeless since we are the most violent
Feminize men? see above
Focus on equality? see above

And another thing. If you really want to talk about this "masculinity paradigm" crap...

I have noticed that while females want to have the same rights as men, they still prefer to be treated like china. In other words, they want to choose whether to be responsible or not, and interchange it day to day. They want to live the heavenly life, while men have no choice but to slave away.

IT amuses them, it relaxes them, it pleases them, whatever.

No. No, no, and NO! You don't get it both ways. If we work, you work. If you play, we can play too. If you want to go out and buy a new pair of shoes every weekend, we can go and splurge at the bar every friday and saturday. We are not your personal slaves, and you are not goddesses who can choose the schedule fate gives you.

You are not special. You are human, just like all of us. Live life like the rest of us, with its ups and downs. Stop playing mental games, and stop seeing problems where there are none. Stop picking fights to take out your frustrations, and start realizing the guy you're dating is a douche, and that man who's been your best friend for years is secretly in love with you.

You pretend you know everything, you get insulted when someone implies you don't...get with the program: YOU ARE HUMAN.

Start acting like it, and stop playing, "Little Miss Gift to the World." You are not perfect, and neither is your life. Accept it. And here's my little confession: sometimes, I think women act the way they do because they are the most insecure of them all. They feel the need to doll up and play games and do whatever...because they are lost and insecure.

Maybe if they stopped pretending to be helpless females, they might not be insecure, and then we'd all be happy HUMANS. Female =/= Insecure. Stop acting like it does. If you wanted to rule the world, you could, just like any man. Don't act weak, don't act coy, don't be anything except a strong woman, because no woman is incapable. Look at Stephen Hawking! He's a man, and he's crippled, and he's a freakin' genius! Now you're a healthy woman, full of life and vigor, and you can't do as well as he has? Bull#!

Stop playing at being the damsel in distress. Stop playing at being high and mighty. Just...BE. Be yourself. Be strong. Be human.

I'm finished here...I'll leave it to the other men to get their points across. I just thought if someone was going to start a feminism thread, I would interject some masculinity in the interest of equality.



Namaste.

The ability to chunk data into only two states is really only a reflection of how many states you can keep track of at once, and not necessarily an accurate description of the state of humanity.

What happens when you throw a bad vegetable into a closed container? The other vegetables go bad as at escalating rate.

So yes, if you continue to lump boys (or girls) all into the same container with bad apples there will be an escalating number who will go bad too. Alternately, our veggies here have legs and hands so they might decide they hate the container and do something to break out of it.

I'd suggest not trying to put the good apples into the same container with the bad apples.

Why single out men when women are capable of the exact same crimes as men?

reply to post by femalepharoe


diarrhea of the mouth(or fingers)
keep trying to place blame in attempt to make sense of this world...
it'll leave you more sad and alone than you already seem to be.

...did I hit I hit soft spot?

I find it ironic that the gentlemen who claimed the post was sexist then continued to detail his confessions of women. even going so far as to qoute me as "little miss perfect"...

In any regard the theory is based on information and statistical evidence, this isn't new:


www.guardian.co.uk...
"Take prison costs alone – an estimated £45,000 per prisoner a year, 95% of whom are male. If men committed crimes leading to custodial sentences at the rate women do, the exchequer would save about £3.4bn a year."

Did you watch the documentary? Do you have any thoughts on the overwhelming hows and whys of the statistics that conclude that masculinity cultivation is killing our world.

Many Car insurance providers charge young adults with red cars a higher fees because people in red cars tend to go faster and wreck more. That is a fact based on quantifiable statistics.

Let's argue the statistics , and not attempt to become defensive due to....guilt??

reply to post by Canned2na



yes, I detailed that women do , and are capable of the same crimes. I also detailed that when they commit these acts , it is apart of the headline.

Did you fully read the post?

there will be a revision of society more apt to comfort and support and grow mens masculinity than a step back into the pangs of depravity that was homosexual rome. if u think the society u have now is your "plymouth rock" then your perception and appreciation for manhood as expressed in your post is low and unbefitting of friendship. masculinity and manhood are one in the same. in your post you state statistics supporting your claim the masculinity and the purport of social engineering to support masculinity is the cause for social issues, but in the study of sociology social issues will always manifest.

i need you to help me by defining in greater clarity masculinity to yourself to me because if the social construct u exist in supports masculinity as your op claims; your not going to solve the issue by placing men who commit those acts under the umbrella of masculinity and expect to get off scott free as though u are not damaging society and social constructs by making vague rash and outlandinsh claims supported and corroborated by "facts" that you have listed in your op.

if anything your post as well as other womens movements or other movements against what i see as a grey area of masculinity in the modern history of mine own existence is the cause for the detonation you mention in your op. and there is no refutation based on your op regarding mine own beliefs because of how you have so callously grouped persons and people with a seeming malicious intent without the forbearance to be a proper feminine(if u are) regarding the nature of how u claim masculinity is an aspect of your society. then if it is (masculinity an aspect of society that is purported to be supported) you are relegating social issues under the class of masculinity and men and not labeling those variable that belong to other groups in a defined fashion; like rapes committed by women violent crimes committed by women and or so on.

you basically with reasoning faculties came to a public forum and stated your claim, and in a same public forum i have declared or stated that your claim as stated is the reason for the deterioration of "masculinity" within the context of your post and outside the context of the social construct you are attempting to portray without defining said constructs but using statistics to corroborate your cunning attempt at doing so.


p.s. maybe u need to seek replies from the control group you are getting these statistics from or persons whom u feel embody and embolden this deterioration u speak of. i personally feel u and other persons who monopolize on grey area issues for self centered non social supporting reasons are the downfalls of all societies.

reply to post by slowisfast


sad and alone?
hardly .

Just a thought posted on a supposed discussion board of free thinkers specifically in the philosophy forum.

But thanks anyway.

Happy Friday

It's not very happy, now that you've reminded me sexist women still exist.

And I thought it was only the men...oh wait, there is my mother. Should hear her every time she sees a program about a rapist on the set...it's frightening.

*shudders*

yeah, there needs to be a balance. we need to stop taking ourselves so seriously.

Originally posted by femalepharoe
reply to post by slowisfast

 

sad and alone?
hardly .

Just a thought posted on a supposed discussion board of free thinkers specifically in the philosophy forum.

But thanks anyway.

Happy Friday

It would be better suited for the "sexist ignorance gone rampant" forum...

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
yeah, there needs to be a balance. we need to stop taking ourselves so seriously.

I never take myself too seriou - OOOH! SOMETHING SHINY!!!

I believe the trick is to achieve a middle balance.
Masculinity serves it's purpose, and so does femininity.
One being more logic and action oriented, and the other empathy and creativity

Maybe that is the reason why we are seeing an increase on androgynous people both mentally and physically, nature has a way of balancing things out.

Peace

reply to post by Ausar


The social constructs of masculinity, who built it, who abides by it, and who disseminates it is the focus of debate expressed by the thoughts and numbers in the Original Post presented by myself.

Though you may not be a sexual assaulter, criminal, or domestic abuser – as a man you are indeed the focus group. More so, because you are not “bunched” into the statistics.

So , I guess I would have to ask you what masculinity is to you, for you are the torch bearer of masculinity and not me?

reply to post by Starchild23


I think she has a point here. Its not about sexism, but it would be good to note how many people are willing to jump straight to that to disprove, or humilate the OP. There's the masculinity mentality, which is what I think she is talking about here. Most of us men, don't let our feelings out, we hold it in, and we do what I refer to as "playing the game". That is we let our emotions, self-centeredness, and probably most importantly our "man's reputation" direct our actions, which leads to the startling statistics the OP posted. I don't think the OP is going out saying all the problems of the world are attributed to men, and anyone who goes straight for that, I think is the real sexist. This is something we should address as intelligent sentient beings. These behaviours are primitive, and are there for a reason, however most of those reasons are dissapating as we get more and more intelligent and complicated.

reply to post by Starchild23



sexism , like racism, is a social construct based on priveleage and power.

At present, women make 75 cents to the dollar in comparison to men. Class wise, women have no social power over men - and thus can not be sexist.

...That is a whole nother discussion. But just thought I would help you out with that.