Look if you doubt China's might

reply to post by reaxi0n


Thank you for the defensive reply. I just came back to this thread to see how it was progressing. No need for me to repond as you said what I would have, and you said it eloquently.
Thank you
brice

reply to post by brice


No problem. I knew you could have handled it but I couldn't resist

reply to post by TheGreatest


The Chinese Military may be big and look formidable but lets look at some facts.

During the Korean War the Chinese would launch human wave assaults against American positions. The First wave would be armed with rocks and sticks, the American forces would mow them down. The Came the second Wave which was armed. We would force them back down but it would deplete our remaining ammo and the last of this wave was repealed via hand to hand combat. Finally a third wave would charge our positions and we would be forced to retreat do to lack of ammo. The Chinese my have carried the day and pushed us back to the 38th Parallel, but they paid a horrible price for the ground they took .

And after the US with drew from Vietnam, China and Vietnam had a small border war in which the Chinese got there asses handed to them.

And though the Chinese and North Koreans put on a good show, Most of there equipment is out dated Soviet Era Crap that is poorly made. And they still use soviet style tactics which if you remember the First Iraq war proved to be no match for American Military Tactics and Hardware.

China believes in the Theory of Big Numbers just like the Soviet Union did. If we send in 100 tanks and 10 get threw VICTORY! While America use advanced technology and well trained troops to over come numerical disadvantages. So far the American Strategy is working.

I was just figuring they never proved hitlers body was found and all his scientists supposedly built flying saucers who were then wisked away to the US by the CIA who are responsible for countless wars marching toward a goal of one world government. Is it just me or is America going to be the Antichrist that "God" comes down to save humanity from only to truly be hitler and his Nazi UFO armies from space?


Just saying..

reply to post by TheGreatest


I've never seen the song from 'C&C: Red Alert' better suited for anything else other than that video.
Great soundtrack from an awesome game, goes well with the footage

reply to post by TheGreatest


During high school I had a Taiwanese teacher who served in the Taiwan army as a liutenant. Anyway, I remember the class asked him something about China invading Australia in the future, to which he said that Chinas army might be massive but they are VERY poorly trained soldiers. China is only concerned with quantity not quality.

People constantly overestimate and overstate the strength of the Chinese economy and the power of China. US GDP and GDP per capita is still higher than that of China. The US is geographically better located, has access to a wider range of natural resources within its territory, has a more developed and expririenced economy and labour force. However, most significantly, the US still makes up for almost half of the worlds military spending. The next ten greatest military spenders combined do not make up the military spending of the US together.

Also significant is the fact that China does not have a suffecient Blue Water or Deep Water navy, which is required to project power across the World. China is working on one un finished carrier, purchased from the Soviet Union. The US has many aircraft carriers, with state of the art technology, including nuclear power, allowing them to sail for years without needing to refuel.

The US has a fleet stationed in the Pacific and the Gulf, two critical areas of the World. Not to mention the US has hundreds of military bases across the World, including in Germany, Japan, South Korea and Afghanistan. All critical junctures for projecting global military power.

We talk about the "rise of China" in contemparary politics. It is true, power is returning to the most populous region of the world, for a whole host of reasons. The Power of China is gradually rising and the power of the US is gradually fading (from 2003 till 2008 it was fading perhaps at a faster rate than now). However, while US power is diminishing and has been diminished, and while Chinese powre continues to accumilate, this does not at all mean that China is more powerful than the US, or will be in the next 15-20 years. In fact, I predict the US will continue to be the most homogenous power for sometime to come (unless somthing destructive were to occur in the US).

reply to post by havok


Nazi Germany had the best trained soldiers in WWII..what is your point again?

Peace

Originally posted by masqua
There is nothing more important in an armed force than discipline and training. Combined and constantly reinforced, these two factors will produce soldiers which will follow orders without a second thought.

When I see the effort which is taken to produce such Borg-like precision in marching, I am convinced the rank and file are fully engaged in the complete removal of any individuality or personal ego. This cohesion would no doubt also translate throughout the training of these troops, be it live fire exercises, map reading or latrine duty.

The end result of such a structure may be immediate and unquestioning response to all orders, which, in my mind, is a weakness... the chink in their armour because war (in the new millenium) is fluid and ever-changing. There is no room for change in the Borg unless it filters down from the brass to the individual in the field. That's WWI thinking and kills millions sensessly.

edit on 23/2/12 by masqua because: (no reason given)

There is no perfect model for a military. Just because western militaries do not parade around like this, doesn't make Chinese discipline inferior.

In fact, the difference goes far beyond military tactics and training- this is a socio-economic-class difference. Soldiers in western militaries tend to sign up to work for the state, gain some job experience and post-secondary training, work towards a pension, and then leave the military after one or two terms to persue a civilian career.

In a place like China, citizens tend to hold the same job/trade throughout their entire life. They don't go into the military thinking that they'll gain some experience and after a few years, they go back to the city and find a job. That's not how it works in China. If you're an average Chinese citizen, who is virtually a peasant or lower-middle class, an established, long-term military career is probably your best option compared to civilian peasant life.

And yes, China lacks experience in war. Not exactly a bad thing when you realize this is due to China's policies that don't revolve around war. However, considering the long-term mentality of Chinese soldiers, the Chinese army would become extremely formidible after, say, a decade of conflict. Because after a decade, most of their commanders and instructors will be veterans who will be training and commanding millions more.

And Chinese, as a people, are extremely solid nationalists. They are very dedicated to serve. Marching is indicitive of their dedication- and quite frankly, such organizational tactics are necessary in controlling a large military force. These are career soldiers who, in their core, fight for idealism and not profit. China would not pick a fight that is not idealistic in nature, because it would demoralize its troops- on the flip side, any defensive engagement would boost their fighting capability.

Even further, Chinese tend to be trained to be physically, mentally, and spiritually fit. Martial arts within the military structure is a method to achieve this. The existential balance for the individual soldier is good for the whole force, because a commander knows that his soldiers are on the same physical/psychological/spiritual level while also knowing what that level is. This is in contrast to western forces where this balance is mostly left up to the privacy of the individual, so instead of such a spiritual/psychological/physical standard applying to all soldiers in the force, it is only limited to groups of soldiers who know each other (like a platoon). Instead, in western forces, professionalism and specialization is emphasized instead of a strong core structure instilled on a universal level among all soldiers. This is the dichotomy between east vs west military forces.

I don't know if I am getting my point across as effectively as I would like to. I'm sure that most people will disagree with me since most people seem to believe that technology wins above all else. But it doesn't. A force with a strong and universal will to fight is much more effective.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Just because western militaries do not parade around like this, doesn't make Chinese discipline inferior.

It certainly doesn't make them superior!

Frankly, all such displays achieve outside of their own nation is the give the rest of us a good chuckle at their mighty idiots and huge ego.

You know what they say about the guy that argues till he is blue in the face about how big his dick is...

For those of you questioning the equipment the PLA carries check out this page

PLA Infantry equipment

Here are a few photos from the page;




















Just a few photos I found for land based equipment and personal equipment issued to the guys on the ground.

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Just because western militaries do not parade around like this, doesn't make Chinese discipline inferior.

It certainly doesn't make them superior!

Frankly, all such displays achieve outside of their own nation is the give the rest of us a good chuckle at their mighty idiots and huge ego.

You know what they say about the guy that argues till he is blue in the face about how big his dick is...

It's their culture, not yours. If you choose to criticize it without even bothering to understand, then what makes you better in your little pissing contest?

The Chinese respect the American military, and the American military respects the Chinese. That's not to say that citizens on either side can say the same, considering that they don't do the fighting.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


It's not my pissing contest matey, it's theirs.

Duh.

You know the idiots are out in force again in this tread, typically the gung ho Americans who believe John Wayne was actually a Green Beret and they can win any war in 15 minutes and actually have never served themselves.

Look up history, the USA can NEVER win a war against China, this is not to say China can beat the USA, it ends either in stalemate of MAD.
These video's show normal parades, nothing to do with he actual ability of the troops in combat, nothing to do with the formations they take in battle. It is just like the rifle drill teams from teh USA, the are ceremonial, and have nothing to do with combat



And thinking you can easily just walk over the Chinese, take a good look at what happened in North Korea, where the Chinese, yes the Chinese handed you your asses and pushed you all the way back to the 53rd parallel, McCarthy begging to use nukes because HE COULD NOT BEAT THEM.

America fights little countries with the help of others, and still cannot win, it has not won in Iraq, look at teh mess there, it just created a # pile and left, its getting beat in Afghanistan, and yet you still go on and on about its military tech, what a joke

You need to get a grip, Americans are just ordinary people, the same as around the world, just seems judging by these forums Americans tend to be a lot dumber

I do like the female uniforms, are the uniforms meant to be sexy? As for the marching, reminds me of the 'ashphelt soldiers' as they were called, of the Algemiene SS shown in news reals before WW 2.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I could not agree more, the Chinese are in it for life, not just for Christmas, plus, no way can anyone surrender to a bomber in the sky, troops take the ground, and defend it.

reply to post by PrinceDreamer


I think military capabilities and the execution of an actual military invasion/occupation are two entirely different debates. Certainly, the United States has failed to contain or destroy the insurgency in Afghanistan as it did in Vietnam. There was also a period in Iraq where the insurgency was on the verge of breaking into civil war, however, it gradually decreased to the point where the US could claim some control. Indeed they have left a pile of # as you say.

However, that is not to say it couldn't have won in Iraq and Korea, by drawing on its raw military capabilties. Arguably, the US could have achieved a higher degree of success in containing the Iraqi insurgency, had it committed a far greater number of troops (although the smarter thing would have been to never enter the country in the first place). Korea could have been one, but as you said before, it would require being trigger happy and using weaponry the White House would just not be willing too.

What Korea does show us however, is how effective and important sheer size and numbers can be, especially when fighting a conflict so close to home (for China) against an enemy so far from home, isolated from the conflict, not in direct danger, with a smaller proportional population size. The Chinese, suffered massive causualties but on numerous occasions simply overan British and American positions, literally jumping onto tanks which were unable to get away. Certainly, the US couldn't win a war if it tried invading the Chinese mainland with conventional weapontry. Does this suggest China is more powerful?

No, it just shows the limitation of using military force. Even if they managed to smash the 1,000,000 man + sized military, it still wouldn't be able to deny a homegrown insurgency. However, in terms of sheer power, the US is clearly superior and will be so for atleast the next 15 years considering its military expenditures, which continue to increase. That is provided if the American economy dosen't sink down the drain.

Originally posted by Garfee
It's not my pissing contest matey, it's theirs.

Duh.

If that is the case, why is there an increasing American presence being established on Australian soil?

In the face of growing Chinese economic and military power, U.S. allies across Asia have been asking for help in counterbalancing potential threats in the disputed South China Sea and elsewhere. Australia is located close to Southeast Asia, an area of economic growth and emerging economies that the United States would like to influence as political democracies.

Furthermore, analysts said, having access to military bases in Australia would allow the United States another staging area outside the range of China’s increasingly sophisticated ballistic missiles.

www.washingtonpost.com...

This pissing contest has many contestants and it's starting to stink up the place.

reply to post by TheGreatest


Looks like they are getting ready for one big girl scout cooky sale.

They march wonderfully.

But can they fight wonderfully?