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Originally posted by cloudyday
Every pope tries to fine tune Catholicism to leave his mark. It's like the legal code in the United States; it keeps getting more and more complicated with every court case. I don't think the Catholics claim they are unchanged from the early church. I think they claim that they are the one and only Church, and the Church is always gaining in understanding and God is taking care of His Church.
If you want a Church that has changed less then you should be Orthodox. My understanding is that the Orthodox haven't changed anything significant for 1000 years or more. I think that can be attributed to the decay of the Byzantine Empire and the resulting lack of leadership which made it difficult to reach any agreements.
Personally, I hope the Catholics are wrong, because I hate all that metaphysical philosophical theological mumbo jumbo that they push. The Orthodox claim to be different, but I think they're just as bad or worse in different ways.
I think Protestants are good, because they generally aren't as arrogant. Catholics and Orthodox have institutionalized arrogance. But your best bet is to steer clear of all religions.edit on 21-2-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by 547000
Again, do you know anything of church history or are you just spouting off crazy conspiracy theories? Someone with that type of logic could just as well conclude that Christianity itself is pagan and Jesus was a rehash because of the similarities of Him and mythical figures.
The truth will set you free, but you care nothing of truth. The history makes it clear that Protestantism has no grounds to stand on. Why you don't Christianity's foundational history? I think you might be fortunate because you are ignorant. You will spend less time in purgatory than those who know the truth but refuse to listen to it. The more you insult Mary the more wrath you will heap up for yourself.
Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by cloudyday
I have evaluated both sources. I started as an atheist, then a protestant view, then a catholic view. The evidence speaks for itself.
Anti-Catholic protestants use fear rather than logic to state their claims.edit on 22-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)
While He (Jesus) was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. Then one said to Him, 'Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.' "But He answered and said to the one who told Him, 'Who is My mother and who are My brothers?' And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, 'Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.' " (Matthew 12:46-50
Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by cloudyday
Are you referring to the filoque? That and papacy seem to be the main differences.
In the Orthodox Church we believe that God reveals Himself to us in truth. This means, basically, that as human beings we have the inherent ability to know God directly and simply i.e., personally. Just as Enoch and Noah “walked with God,” (Gen. 5:24, 6:9), and just as Moses “spoke with the Lord face to face, as a man speaks to a friend,” (Ex. 33:11), so are we able to enter into the same intimate communion with the Triune God. The knowledge of God that is the outgrowth of becoming united with Him is what we call theology. As such, all genuine theology is not merely the knowledge about God, but the knowledge of God – because it is experiential in nature.
In Western Christendom, unfortunately, theology came to be just this – the knowledge about God. Unlike the Christian East, theology became something scholastic, something appropriated to academicians who conversed with each other over philosophical abstractions. Even today, the discipline of theology in most American seminaries, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, remains, for the most part, thoroughly scholastic. Some of the more “liberal” theologians have even gone so far as to conclude that nothing reliable can ever be known about God. According to this line of thinking, God (or whoever he or she or it happens to be) is so far above and beyond our human realm that he/she/it cannot be understood.
Even so, it is important for us to remember what St. Gregory the Theologian once said. “For we do not theologize in the manner of Aristotle, (that is in the abstract way of the philosophers), but in the manner of the fishermen” – referring of course to the Holy Apostles. For St. Gregory, theology is the outcome of the living encounter with God the Father, through His Son and in the Holy Spirit. St. Anthony the Great touches on this as well when he says, “The theologian is the one who prays, and the one who prays in the theologian.”
Again, do you know anything of church history or are you just spouting off crazy conspiracy theories?
There are many, many, many experts who believe just this
Someone with that type of logic could just as well conclude that Christianity itself is pagan and Jesus was a rehash because of the similarities of Him and mythical figures.
from the description of Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices by Frank Viola (Author), George Barna (Author), c2008, BarnaBooks on www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329926646&sr=1-2
Have you ever wondered why we Christians do what we do for church every Sunday morning? Why do we “dress up” for church? Why does the pastor preach a sermon each week? Why do we have pews, steeples, choirs, and seminaries? This volume reveals the startling truth: most of what Christians do in present-day churches is not rooted in the New Testament, but in pagan culture and rituals developed long after the death of the apostles. Coauthors Frank Viola and George Barna support their thesis with compelling historical evidence in the first-ever book to document the full story of modern Christian church practices.
If you claim the church added things to the faith, there is a problem with that. The direct successors of the apostles believed in "pagan" things like Purgatory, Devotion to Mary, Prayers for the Dead, etc. If you have the internet you can research what the early church believed. That means immediately after the apostles died the people who they taught corrupted everything. If that is indeed the case, the authority of the bible itself is in question, since it was these corrupt people who selected canon.
SHORTLY AFTER THE DOCTRINE of Christ began to be propagated among the Gentiles, the followers of Christ in Antioch began to be called Christians (Acts XI:26). The word "Christian" indicated that those who bore this name belonged to Christ-belonged in the sense of devotion to Christ and his Doctrine. From Antioch the name of Christian was spread everywhere.
The followers of Christ gladly called themselves by the name of their beloved Teacher and Lord; and the enemies of Christ called His followers Christians by carrying over to them the ill-will and hatred which they breathed against Christ.
However, quite soon there appeared people who, while calling themselves Christians, were not of Christ in spirit. Of them Christ had spoken earlier: Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven (St. Matt. VII:5). Christ prophesied also that many would pass themselves off for Christ Himself: Many shall come in my name, sayings I am Christ (Matt. XXIV:5). The Apostles in their epistles indicated that false bearers of the name of Christ had appeared already in their time: as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now there are many antichrists (I John II:19).
They indicated that those who stepped away from the doctrine of Christ should not be considered their own: They went out from us but were not of us (I John II:19)" Warning against quarrels and disagreements in minor matters (I Cor. I:10-14), at the same time the Apostles strictly commanded their disciples to shun those who do not bring the true doctrine (II John I:10). The Lord, through the Revelation given to the Apostle John the Theologian, sternly accused those who, calling themselves faithful, did not act in accordance with their name; for in such a case it would be false for them.
Of what use was it of old to call oneself a Jew, an Old Testament follower of the true faith, if one was not such in actuality? Such the Holy Scripture calls the synagogue of Satan (Apocalypse II:9).
In the same way a Christian in the strict sense is he only who confesses the true doctrine of Christ and lives in accordance with it. The designation of a Christian consists in glorifying the Heavenly Father by one's life. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven (St. Matt. V:16). But true glorification of God is possible only if one rightly believes and expresses his right belief in words and deeds. Therefore true Christianity and it alone may be named "right-glorifying" (Ortho-doxy). By the word "Orthodoxy" we confess our firm conviction that it is precisely our Faith that is the true doctrine of Christ. When we call anyone or anything Orthodox, we by this very fact indicate his or its non-counterfeit and uncorrupted Christianity, rejecting at the same time that which falsely appropriates the name of Christ.
St. John Maximovitch
Wild times, you would have to read what the early church fathers believed, but since you disagree with Christianity, nothing will move you. If you disagree with the basic tenants of the creeds you can't really call yourself Christian.