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The Achilles' Heel of Protestantism

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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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547000, here's a simple-to-read explanation. There are many, many more resources that say the same thing.


Reincarnation and the Early Christians

The Roman Church misunderstood what the Logos was in John and incorrectly concluded from this that only Jesus is divine - the Word made flesh. The orthodox Church either rejected or ignored this Christian Gnostic concept found in John. This may have been a factor when the gospel of John was almost rejected from New Testament canon when it was being put together.
This was during a time when Christian Gnosticism became an enemy of the organized Church. Nevertheless, it was the idea of the preexistence of the soul and its corresponding doctrine of reincarnation that the Roman Church had great difficulty with.

The Christian Gnostics emphasized spiritual knowledge rather blind faith as the road to salvation. They indicated that they possessed secret knowledge (i.e., "gnosis" in Greek) concerning the hidden meaning of the "resurrection." This was a part of the secret teachings of Jesus handed down to them by the apostles.

This special knowledge was restricted to people who were given the public teachings of Christianity before qualifying to be initiated and receive the secret teachings. In contrast, the very term "Catholic" means "universal", implying that anyone could become a member of the Church by adhering to the public teachings of faith and rituals. The Christian Gnostics were harsh critics of the orthodox Church. The Christian Gnostics accused the Church of watering down the gospel in order to popularize it for the masses. The orthodox Church stressed salvation through faith alone and by the rituals of the Church.

This secret gnosis emphasized spiritual "resurrection" (i.e,. spiritual rebirth) and physical "resurrection" (i.e., reincarnation) as opposed to a resurrection defined as people sleeping in their graves until it is time their corpses to crawl out of their graves at the last day. Christian Gnostics held the view that if spiritual resurrection was not attained in one lifetime, then the soul would be subjected to as many reincarnations as it takes until spiritual rebirth is attained.

EDIT to point out that the Christian Gnostics were actually the first "Protestants" against both the Roman Catholic Church andorthodoxy. Just passing on the information.

edit on 22-2-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

547000, you will have to do plenty of more searching, despite your staunch position today, before you have any sort of solid grasp of these issues. I will also, and plan to but the fact is that the early Church did teach Reincarnation, and just because you don't believe in it doesn't change that. We've had this conversational tangent before. You are brand new to things religious/theological. I am not. Does this make me an expert? Certainly not. But I'm definitely an upper classman



I think I'm the world's oldest freshman. Maybe I need to find an easier major.

edit on 22-2-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 


I think I'm the world's oldest freshman. Maybe I need to find an easier major.

Nah,....we're all freshmen.....just some of us have had to repeat the 9th grade...
and it's the major we're here to "major" in....
or even "master".....

????
(Who knows? Not I, that's for sure)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


It's very easy to fall in with the fashions, but the gnostics were not Christians but heretics. Gnosticism existed before Christianity and tried to hijack it with their nonsense. One of the places it came from was Persia.
edit on 22-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 



Gnosticism existed before Christianity and tried to hijack it with their nonsense.

Did you even read the page I linked to? Christ himself studied with the 'gnostics'.... nonsense?
I just really don't understand why you are behaving in such a "deny it" manner.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 



It's very easy to fall in with the fashions, but the gnostics were not Christians but heretics.

"fall in with the fashions"??
The gnostics were the guys who really got it. Who followed what Jesus and John the Baptist taught. Where are you reading this stuff, may I ask? Do you truly have your head so closed off at your young age that you can't even fathom alternative "truths"??

An important Christian Gnostic teaching was the "Logos" which in Greek is translated as "the image of the Word." It is an important concept found in the gospel of John:

"In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

Logos is the part of God that acts in the world. It is the perfect unity of the human and the divine. This is affirmed by John when he wrote that "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." When John stated that Jesus is the Logos, he is stating that Jesus became the Logos, the Christ.

The Logos is the divine "spark" of God within humans that needs to awakened. Everyone has the "image of the Word (Logos)" within them and it is for this reason that Genesis describes humanity as created "in the image and likeness of God."The Logos is the divine Spirit in humanity.

By using the Christian Gnostic idea of the Logos, John is not only affirming the preexistence and divinity of Jesus, but he is affirming that all sons of God created in the "image of the Word" as Jesus was, preexisted in spirit before being born. In other words, every human is an incarnation of the Logos and every human has to potential of becoming like Jesus, a manifestation of the human-divine unity. Every human can be a "Christ" and because of this, every soul will eventually be drawn back to God.

edit on 22-2-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I've found the gnostics to be very dark and spiritual material... Although they were written long after the events of Jesus, i believe many of the teachings are actually his words passed down from many generations... more of an oral tradition rather then what is in the bible...

Jesus taught crowds of people... its hard to believe that only one particular sect of christianity had his words... I mean its clear many considered him God...

People should actually read the material before making an opinion of "if its true" or not...

Many religions accept the idea of ONE God...

I think if people read the material from those religions, they would get a bigger picture of it all




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



i believe many of the teachings are actually his words passed down from many generations... more of an oral tradition rather then what is in the bible...

I believe that also. The Bible I have real issues with.
The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know anything......
today I was reading from Karen Armstrong's A History of God about the very earliest followers of Christ....
and it reaffirmed what I think I believe.
Have you read it??



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Akragon
 



i believe many of the teachings are actually his words passed down from many generations... more of an oral tradition rather then what is in the bible...

I believe that also. The Bible I have real issues with.
The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know anything......
today I was reading from Karen Armstrong's A History of God about the very earliest followers of Christ....
and it reaffirmed what I think I believe.
Have you read it??


I don't read that kind of material actually...

I think if you're looking for truth in the bible you need to start at Matthew, and stop at John... And take the rest into consideration afterwards...

Trust me you will have no issues with that part of the bible...




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



I don't read that kind of material actually...

May I ask...why not? To me, the historical research is sublimely important. She was a nun and during that time did her research.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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You're the one being closed-minded. Because you'd rather believe traditional Christianity is wrong you'll quote people who tell you what you want to hear. Maybe at twelve you have had your experience. I've had my experience. Where your experience points to gnosticism, mine points to Catholicism.

If you try to learn about Gnosticism what you will realize is they hijack any religion they come into contact with. Judaism was not spared either.
edit on 23-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Akragon
 



I don't read that kind of material actually...

May I ask...why not? To me, the historical research is sublimely important. She was a nun and during that time did her research.


Because i do my own research...

I trust no persons opinion... So i'd rather not read about them...

I prefer to go to the source




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
You're the one being closed-minded. Because you'd rather believe traditional Christianity is wrong you'll quote people who tell you what you want to hear. Maybe at twelve you have had your experience. I've had my experience. Where your experience points to gnosticism, mine points to Catholicism.

If you try to learn about Gnosticism what you will realize is they hijack any religion they come into contact with.


Thats a rather unread opinion...

Can i assume you've never read any gnostic material... You know they believe in the apocryphal books right?

Don't Catholics read those as well?




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I tried reading the Gospel of Thomas when I first realized Christianity was true but not sure which. The funny thing is the traditional gospel parables contain true knowledge which is secret to those who don't have faith.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Akragon
 


I tried reading the Gospel of Thomas when I first realized Christianity was true but not sure which. The funny thing is the traditional gospel parables contain true knowledge which is secret to those who don't have faith.


Thats not the point... that "true knowledge" is simplistic... The gnostics are not the same as the bible, its a darker more spiritual side of ancient scripture... Thomas is only the beginning, though that is likely the closest thing to Jesus other then the bible...

If you understand the synoptics you can find truth in the gnostics as well... but just like the bible you really have to be careful with what you believe is true... but the spirit will guide you...




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Gnosticism passes off as wisdom but it is foolishness. Those who think they have hidden knowledge of God know less than babes.

Remember the bible says God will make wisdom foolishness. Only childlike faith can make one understand the parables.
edit on 23-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Akragon
 


Gnosticism passes off as wisdom but it is foolishness. T
edit on 23-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)


Show me then...


But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



Remember the bible says God will make wisdom foolishness. Only childlike faith can make one understand the parables.


Parables have nothing to do with the subject at hand.....



edit on 23-2-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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Paul called the mystery of the cross foolishness to the wise.

I didn't call gnostics fool but gnosticism foolish. It is considered wise, but it is foolishness.
edit on 23-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
Paul called the mystery of the cross foolishness to the wise.

I didn't call gnostics fool but gnosticism foolish. It is considered wise, but it is foolishness.
edit on 23-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)


Lets not get into Paul...

What is foolish about it?

What have you heard? And what do you know about their scripture?

How do you know for certian His words arn't within their scripture?




edit on 23-2-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I know that they believe in hidden knowledge, and therefore think they are superior to the folk religions that they hijack. They subscribe to any number of beliefs, whether it is reincarnation, the idea that the physical is evil, or that they hold the secret teaching of mankind.

Gnosticism appeals to people who think of themselves wise or subscribe to conspiracy theories about the mainstream.

I know the mainstream is true because I myself notice how differently the bible reads depending on your state of mind. If you think the mainstream is wrong it reads one way. If you have faith that is traditional it makes sense. Jesus said you must enter the kingdom as a child, so I don't think all these knowledgeable elites understand the gospel.
edit on 23-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



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