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Freemasonry and Christianity.

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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by 1nOne

You say one thing yet do another. For those who are not in the know, would you please "enlighten" us about Jahbulon.


you first. I do not recall that name in the degrees of masonry. Perhaps you can point out at which part of our ritual we mention that name.




posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by 1nOne
 



You say one thing yet do another. For those who are not in the know, would you please "enlighten" us about Jahbulon.



You'll have to be more specific. Where have I done one thing and said another?


As far as giving the bible a cursory overview, I said do that in addition to reading it in its entirety, and also referring back to it as needed. That is how I absorb information. I skim and scan, then I read through, then I refer back as needed. Once I've done that a time or two, the information is basically embedded in my mind, or at least easy to find quickly because I know where to look. There is no reason for me to re-read it on a daily basis.

Of course, for my religious purposes, the Bible is only one book of many, and I do not consider myself a Christian, because I do not believe Christ is the "only" way to the Father, therefore my personal views of the Bible are bound to be a little different than a bonafide Christian's views.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by 1nOne
For those who are not in the know, would you please "enlighten" us about Jahbulon.


Nowhere in Masonry is there found any reference to God's name being "Jahbulon", it's a fiction of the anti-Masons.
source

In some versions of the Royal Arch Degree a word similar to this is used, but it has never been claimed that this word is a name for God, or is the name of some secret god. The words "Jah" and Ba'al" are both Semitic words that mean "lord". The author of this version of the ritual which uses the word also apparently (and mistakenly) believed that "On" meant "lord", due to a misreading of the book of Genesis, where it says that Joseph married the daughter of the "Priest of On" (on was, in fact, the name of the city, not an Egyptian word for God).

It is true that the word Ba'al was used by the Canaanites, who applied it to an idol, but it is also true that the Hebrews used the word for their God, as it was a generic title for "king" or "lord".

Regardless, it is apparent that the author of the ritual, although he was mistaken about "On", thought that all three words meant "Lord", and that's why the ritual says that these words describe God, not that they are His names. Indeed, the ritual confirms that God's name is that which is mentioned many times in the KJV Old Testament, i.e., "Jehovah".
source

If memory serves, the hoax that Masons worship a secret god named Jabulon first appeared in Hannah's anti-Masonic book "Darkness Visible". As mentioned, in some versions of the Royal Arch Degree in the York Rite, a word similar to this is used, but nowhere is it claimed to be the name of a god, or a secret name of God.
source



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by 1nOne

You say one thing yet do another. For those who are not in the know, would you please "enlighten" us about Jahbulon.


you first. I do not recall that name in the degrees of masonry. Perhaps you can point out at which part of our ritual we mention that name.


Jah = Jahweh (YHWH)
Bul = Baal
On = Osiris (Heliopolis Pantheon)

Wiki: Lyrics of song mentioning Jahbulon from King, Francis, The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. (ibid):

How the Simple Mason plies
Tool to Temple, See it rise!
Princes of Jerusalem,
How we mock and scoff at them!

Boaz broken,
Jachin gone,
Freely spoken
Jahbulon,
All above
Is overthrown
For the love
Of Babalon.

Boaz and Jachin: two copper, brass or bronze pillars which stood in the porch of Solomon's Temple, the first Temple in Jerusalem.

BabalonFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Not to be confused with Babylon.
Babalon—also known as The Scarlet Woman, The Great Mother, or the Mother of Abominations—is a goddess found in the mystical system of Thelema, which was established in 1904 with English author and occultist Aleister Crowley's writing of The Book of the Law. In her most abstract form, she represents the female sexual impulse and the liberated woman; although she can also be identified with Mother Earth, in her most fertile sense. At the same time, Crowley believed that Babalon had an earthly aspect in the form of a spiritual office, which could be filled by actual women—usually as a counterpart to his own identification as "To Mega Therion" (The Great Beast)—whose duty was then to help manifest the energies of the current Aeon of Horus.

Her consort is Chaos, the "Father of Life" and the male form of the Creative Principle. Babalon is often described as being girt with a sword and riding the Beast. She is often referred to as a sacred whore, and her primary symbol is the Chalice or Graal.

As Crowley wrote in his The Book of Thoth, “She rides astride the Beast; in her left hand she holds the reins, representing the passion which unites them. In her right she holds aloft the cup, the Holy Grail aflame with love and death. In this cup are mingled the elements of the sacrament of the Aeon”.




edit on 22-2-2012 by 1nOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by 1nOne
Wiki: Lyrics of song mentioning Jahbulon from King, Francis, The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. (ibid):
The O.T.O. has nothing to do with Masonry. It's not a Masonic order, and one does not have to be a Mason as a prerequisite to join the O.T.O. Some of the people involved with the creation of the O.T.O. may have been Masons, but not all of them.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by 1nOne
 


The only thing in any of your post which remotely sounds at all similar to anything in Masonry are the existence of the 2 pillars of King Soloman's Temple. Of course, those pillars, their measurements and markings are all found in the Bible and are not unique to Masonry in any form.

The rest of the stuff in you post was pure bunk. It may be found in the writings of Crowley, but it has nothing to do with Masonry.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by OldHag
Than my question: Do you read the Bible every day?

No. I try to read it as often as I can, but my days are filled. Tuesdays for a prime example: I have class at 7:30am so I drag myself out of bed by 6:00am to shower, eat, and drive to school. I'm out of class at 9:00am and just in time to head to work till the afternoon then it is back to class til 4:30pm then an hour break until my Italian course that goes til 8:00pm. Then once class was done I went to a friend's Lodge to give the 1st degree Lecture and afterward we had some refreshments. I didn't get home til 2:00am. That is a 20-hour day for those curious. I repeat this almost every day (except I don't always go to Lodge on Tuesdays) with Monday, Wednesday, and Friday differing just barely.

When I have a chance during the day, I do read the recommended daily passages. I have read it several times though.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by 1nOne
 

Yeah, the OTO is not Masonry nor is Stephen Knight who accuses, unnecessarily, that Masonry worships Baal. Chris Haffner, a British Mason, wrote a great book called "Workman Unashamed: The Testimony of a Christian Freemason". In it he destroys some of the conspiracies that accuses Freemasonry as being "anti-Christian" or that Freemasonry is not compatible with Christ.

Honestly, I'd say many "Christian" churches and those who claim to be Christian are not truly conducive with Christ.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by 1nOne
 


still waiting.

let me know when you have something.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by OldHag

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by OldHag
 

There is nothing in Masonry that contradicts my faith in Christ.

Than my question: Do you read the Bible every day?


Do you believe the Bible should be taken 100% litteraly?

DO you believe every story in that book is 100% true?


Both YES!!



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by 1nOne
 


still waiting.

let me know when you have something.


Do all Masons believe that God, the Father, creator of Heaven, came to this world as flesh as His only Son, Jesus Christ, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried, descended into hell, on the third day risen ascending into heaven to sit at the right hand of God the Father almighty from there to come to judge the living and the dead?
,



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by OldHag

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by OldHag
 

There is nothing in Masonry that contradicts my faith in Christ.

Than my question: Do you read the Bible every day?


Why would anyone read it everyday?
Eph 6

It is just like any other reference book.
Any???



A Mason can be certain there is nothing in Masonry that conflicts with their Faith in Christ without reading the Bible everyday, because once one becomes a Mason, it is very clear that Masonry is not a religion, and has no teachings that would interfere with any religion (except for Atheism).

To an outsider, especially an outsider that believes any of the bunk from the internet, then it might seem difficult to realize, but the fact is, there is nothing in Masonry that could possibly conflict with any religion, and if any religious person did feel there was a conflict, there are at least a dozen specific opportunities to change their mind even before becoming a Master Mason, and one is free to walk away at any time they want even if it isn't a specifically designed spot where we ask for their assurance that they still want to continue.

For that answer I can give you a link to YouTube:



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by OldHag
Than my question: Do you read the Bible every day?

No. I try to read it as often as I can, but my days are filled. Tuesdays for a prime example: I have class at 7:30am so I drag myself out of bed by 6:00am to shower, eat, and drive to school. I'm out of class at 9:00am and just in time to head to work till the afternoon then it is back to class til 4:30pm then an hour break until my Italian course that goes til 8:00pm. Then once class was done I went to a friend's Lodge to give the 1st degree Lecture and afterward we had some refreshments. I didn't get home til 2:00am. That is a 20-hour day for those curious. I repeat this almost every day (except I don't always go to Lodge on Tuesdays) with Monday, Wednesday, and Friday differing just barely.

When I have a chance during the day, I do read the recommended daily passages. I have read it several times though.
Is that an excuse? Why don't you pull off some hours to get the time for yourself, for reading the Bible as you would like? You can work your ass off, just like what I did as a professional lorrydriver work 90 hours a week. If you are not decided to work less as what you are doing now, you soon are dead, dead of so much working. Many of collegaes of mine died because of their many hours of work, do you want to foillow them? And if it is because of the money.. if you know the Bible that He've said that you have no worries over what of you eat and how do you clothe why then you should work so hard if you get it free?

That is real believe in God!! I do, and it works great!!



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by 1nOne
Do all Masons believe that God, the Father, creator of Heaven, came to this world as flesh as His only Son, Jesus Christ, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried, descended into hell, on the third day risen ascending into heaven to sit at the right hand of God the Father almighty from there to come to judge the living and the dead?


No, nor should they have to.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by 1nOne
Do all Masons believe that God, the Father, creator of Heaven, came to this world as flesh as His only Son, Jesus Christ, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried, descended into hell, on the third day risen ascending into heaven to sit at the right hand of God the Father almighty from there to come to judge the living and the dead?


No, nor should they have to.


Colossians 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

2 Corinthians

2but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

note: emphasis on words, "hidden" and, "craftiness".

note: the god of this world is a reference to Satan, not to God the Father



edit on 22-2-2012 by 1nOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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Firstly, I am not a Christian so any Biblical mandates you quote do not apply.


Originally posted by 1nOne
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.


No one has taken me captive. I joined Masonry of my own free will and accord. I found the tenets to be very far from empty or deceitful, rather, I found them to be morally upright and just.


note: the god of this world is a reference to Satan, not to God the Father


Note: you could have said 'Easter Bunny' or 'Tooth Fairy' in place of Satan because, as far as I am concerned, all three are equally non-existant.





edit on 22-2-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: Networkdude has no beer.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by OldHag

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by OldHag

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by OldHag
 

There is nothing in Masonry that contradicts my faith in Christ.

Than my question: Do you read the Bible every day?


Do you believe the Bible should be taken 100% litteraly?

DO you believe every story in that book is 100% true?


Both YES!!


even the old testament? The Book where God asked Abraham to kill his son as proof that he trusted God?
The whole thing?



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by 1nOne
 

No. Not all believe that.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Note: you could have said 'Easter Bunny' or 'Tooth Fairy' in place of Satan because, as far as I am concerned, all three are equally non-existant.
Wait. There's no Tooth Fairy? Then why have I been harvesting all these babies to get their teeth? I thought it was a sure "get rich quick" scheme! (Bill Schnoebelen told me so!)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Augustus Masonicus: "Firstly, I am not a Christian so any Biblical mandates you quote do not apply."

Not so: that is precisely why they apply.

My point: The luminaries of your craft have been less than on the level with you, my friend.




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