Freemasonry and Christianity.

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posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by OldHag
 


Your topic is Freemasonry and Christianity. If Masons who are not Christians are OT, then certainly Christians who are not Freemasons are OT as well.




posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by OldHag
 


Your link was fine for me, I just don't agree, and I think it is an extremely limited view of God. It puts God on the same plane as humans. God isn't limited in the same ways humans are, and your link seems to think God has limitations.


So by doing good you will come or are in heaven? Or is that not what do you say?


I'm not looking for Heaven. I'm looking to improve myself, on a spiritual level, as much as I possibly can. I'm looking to know God in every way I can perceive. I'm looking to understand the challenges and absorb the experiences God has put before me. I'm looking to complete the task at hand, and I'm not looking ahead to the last page of the book, that is not my concern. I have no control over the afterlife, I only have control over my current life.

The things I do here are not for some eternal reward in Heaven, the things I do here are for here. The things I do now, are for now. The things that shape my spiritual being, and prepare it for whatever may come, are the things God has laid out for me.

This is the big disconnect between me and Christianity. Even though I was raised Christian, and even though I attend a Baptist Church, and even though I believe in Christ, the totality of the Faith has a bit of childishness to it. I'm not Pavlov's Dog, I don't need a carrot and a stick to make me act right. I am simply here to experience this life and grow from it.

And, if you'd like to disagree with my take on things, keep in mind I believe my point of view came directly from God, in answer to my prayers, on a dark and emotional night when I was at rock bottom. When I asked God "why," and I laid into a tirade about the unnecessary suffering of my infant son, and others around the world, God simply put the answers to my questions into my head. I didn't believe them, I didn't even like some of them, and so we started our back and forth conversation, and for every question, there was an answer. So, with that in mind, it might be fruitless for you to try and argue with the words that I am 100% certain came directly from the source you seek.

God is God, Heaven is whatever you make it, there is no Hell, except to cease to exist on a spiritual level. There is no eternal torment, there are only opportunities, trials, and tribulations, and as long as you are willing to keep trying, God is willing to keep letting you. One day you will know God in a way that is beyond human comprehension, or you will cease to exist. It isn't all that complicated.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by relocator
 
Sorry brother... I had not see the link you had post it. It is not my intention to get anyone away by the Freemasonsry but I heared from many who had been to the United States, even my Bible teacher who've said that the most American people are Christians so they say, but also a member of the Masons. And from a sister who lived in the States, she said to me, after I asked her that I thought that 85% of the Americans are believing in God, that most of them have a religion but not based on faith. Similar like Catholics being good for other people they think the inherit heaven... it is not! It is only by believe in the work Jesus Christ has do, dying on the cross for all people - so all people are dead - they have no sins eanymore - but if you are not believe that He is on the third day rise out the grave between of other deads, you will keep your sin until you will have to come to the white throne. I've got plenty of Biblestudy's on my website and otherwise I do have a youtube from The good Sameritan in English and that gives a good way how you will be saved.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by no1smootha
 
You had have to read the first posting, on the last rule I asked:

How comes it that so many people are member of the Freemasonry and even they be Christians?

"Dutch: Hoe komt het dat er zoveel mensen lid zijn van de vrijmetselarij en tevens Christenen zijn?"

English isn't my mothers tongue. So sorry if I write it wrong... maybe you understand Dutch and is this rule above better to understand?



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by OldHag
 


Your link was fine for me, I just don't agree, and I think it is an extremely limited view of God. It puts God on the same plane as humans. God isn't limited in the same ways humans are, and your link seems to think God has limitations.

So by doing good you will come or are in heaven? Or is that not what do you say?



I'm not looking for Heaven. I'm looking to improve myself, on a spiritual level, as much as I possibly can. I'm looking to know God in every way I can perceive. I'm looking to understand the challenges and absorb the experiences God has put before me. I'm looking to complete the task at hand, and I'm not looking ahead to the last page of the book, that is not my concern. I have no control over the afterlife, I only have control over my current life.


What do you mean by afterlife, if you are reborn, than you have live, because before that you was dead. Like I said in the other posting, at the moment the Lord Jesus died on the cross all humans died... but if you do believe He is from between the other deads raised up, than you live as well. So what you mean you have no control? That is the only thing you have to do, accept, believe..what more I have to say?


The things I do here are not for some eternal reward in Heaven, the things I do here are for here. The things I do now, are for now. The things that shape my spiritual being, and prepare it for whatever may come, are the things God has laid out for me.

This is the big disconnect between me and Christianity. Even though I was raised Christian, and even though I attend a Baptist Church, and even though I believe in Christ, the totality of the Faith has a bit of childishness to it. I'm not Pavlov's Dog, I don't need a carrot and a stick to make me act right.
Hahaha



I am simply here to experience this life and grow from it.


You mean similar like a demoversion? You can work with it, and it works great, but you can't print and can't save it. But if you want the complete version, you have to pay a lot of money to get the full version. So it is also by the life we got from God, we can work with it, we can live, but you can't save it.. unless you pray to God and asked to be saved!?


And, if you'd like to disagree with my take on things, keep in mind I believe my point of view came directly from God, in answer to my prayers, on a dark and emotional night when I was at rock bottom. When I asked God "why," and I laid into a tirade about the unnecessary suffering of my infant son, and others around the world, God simply put the answers to my questions into my head. I didn't believe them, I didn't even like some of them, and so we started our back and forth conversation, and for every question, there was an answer. So, with that in mind, it might be fruitless for you to try and argue with the words that I am 100% certain came directly from the source you seek.


So His answer was that the opposit was doing all these things or that He was responsable for the dead of you son and all others? because you don't say that. One thing is good... you asked Him straight away. I like that, because most of the people scream that if there is a God, why won't He do something against it.. and the only thing I can answer is that He had given His Son!



God is God, Heaven is whatever you make it, there is no Hell


Oh you makin' your own, so it was all Hiss fauld, isn't it?


, except to cease to exist on a spiritual level. There is no eternal torment,


That's right, there is only a fire and when I put a piece of wood in it, it will turn to ash. If people will live in the fire, than I put next time human beings in my tank, much cheaper and they won't die.

there are only opportunities, trials, and tribulations, and as long as you are willing to keep trying, God is willing to keep letting you. One day you will know God in a way that is beyond human comprehension, or you will cease to exist. It isn't all that complicated.


No it isn't because if you read the Bible and if you believe in Him, than: Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by OldHag
 



So by doing good you will come or are in heaven? Or is that not what do you say?


You are really stuck on this heaven thing? You seem to believe Heaven is a tangible thing? A location? Why? Heaven is indescribable. Heaven is simply knowing God. I'm not looking to earn my way in, or build my own. I'm just seeking to know God on a more spiritual level than I currently do.


What do you mean by afterlife,

I mean after this physical body dies. This physical body is just a singular incarnation for us. Just like Jesus was a singular incarnation of God, but not the only incarnation, and only a small portion of God's greatness.


You mean similar like a demoversion? You can work with it, and it works great, but you can't print and can't save it. But if you want the complete version,


Not like a demoversion, although that is an interesting analogy. And I'm not stating reincarnation as a fact or as impossible, but my impression is that God has a master plan for all things and we have a role in that, but we also have free will. God does not intrude and force our actions. Whatever happens, God only observes, and offers guidance if asked. We are spiritual beings in a physical realm. This is not necessary, it is just how we currently perceive things. If we didn't need to be here, we wouldn't be here. Our spirits are in need of some experience, or some lesson in order to grow and move on up closer to God.

The most basic answer I ever received from God was, "Because, they asked for it." It made me furious at the time. I was asking why a man could leave for work and have his whole family wiped out while he was gone. Why would my son be born to only suffer for the first year of his life. Why are some babies born and die within minutes. Why do kids in Africa starve. And God's answer was, "Because they asked for it." It took awhile to sink in, it wasn't because the "deserved" it. It was because the "requested" it. Some souls need to suffer, some need to love, some need to be loved. Some need one moment with a loving mother, but others need a lifetime of rejection. We all live the lives we choose, and those lives offer us opportunities for spiritual lessons, and hopefully we grow from those lessons and become closer to God.


Oh you makin' your own, so it was all Hiss fauld, isn't it?


I don't make my own, and it is only my fault, nobody elses. I'm already in Heaven, and Hell. When I do my best all day, and when things go mostly right, and when I know it was a good day, and I kiss my kids goodnight, and I say my prayers, and my wife lays her head on my shoulder, then I know it is Heaven. Other days might not be so good, but I can always trace it back to some decision I have made. I am the only one responsible for anything that ever happens to me.

As to the Bible, I mentioned earlier, I serve no master, and I don't "worship" anything. The Bible is a GREAT book. Jesus was a GREAT teacher, and an incarnation of God that could communicate well with man. But, that is only a single aspect of spirituality. I believe there are infinitely more ways to know God, and it does not require Jesus, nor the Bible.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 
Now I know what you are. The same as what I believed before I became a Christian. A unbeliever!
So it had nothing to do with this topic.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by relocator
 

Nothing about Masonry interferes or contradicts my faith in Christ.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by OldHag
reply to post by getreadyalready
 
Now I know what you are. The same as what I believed before I became a Christian. A unbeliever!
So it had nothing to do with this topic.



Wrong, I'm a Mason, and I'm as much Christian as 90% of this country, including my Baptist preacher, so it has everything to do with this topic.

Now, what exactly is an "unbeliever?" Someone that hasn't accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior? I believe in him plenty, I just don't need his forgiveness for my sins. I wish to wear my own sins.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 
You already answered for yourself

But maybe this help you a bit better:

The differences between religion and faith

Religion and faith are often viewed as the same. The two concepts are not the same. Many people have faith, but do not believe in religion. Religion is man made whereas faith is a spiritual concept. Religion has an institutionalized background, a conformity of a system of attitudes, beliefs and practices. The word faith can be used in describing the type of religion we associate. Often this religion is one of like minds, and written doctrine.

Faith on the other hand is the actual belief and trust and loyalty to God, the creator of the universe. In other words when the carpet that your standing on is ripped out from under your feet you know, and trust that the lord God, creator of all still loves you, and will protect you. That's the biggest difference between religion and faith. Religion with its written doctrine will inform you what you are to believe. Faith is an actual deep knowing that you trust in your own belief in God.

There are many paths of religion, but there is only one faith, and that faith is in the belief that God is in control of all of life. The two can compliment each other, but are not the same. Faith is the belief that everything will work out, and religion is the organizational, institute for practicing your faith. Source



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by relocator
 
Oops.. call you brother, sorry sister (shame shame shame) blush



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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SEARCH YOUR BIBLE HIGH AND LOW!!! You will never hear Yashua(Jesus) speak of Christianity, nor will you hear him refer to His twelve as Christians. Why is that? Dont get it twisted people know what you speak of. But I guess Ma-son"s wont throw that pearl to the dogs either. As for this topic they go hand in hand thats why most of them are in a church. The TRUTH will always be hidden because pastors, imams, rabbis are ALL in on the take. "Without the masses they cant get their lunch money" Taj Tarik Bey



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by OldHag
 


Look into this.
en.wikipedia.org...

Hermetic order of the golden dawn.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by MAAT09
SEARCH YOUR BIBLE HIGH AND LOW!!! You will never hear Yashua(Jesus) speak of Christianity, nor will you hear him refer to His twelve as Christians. Why is that? Dont get it twisted people know what you speak of. But I guess Ma-son"s wont throw that pearl to the dogs either. As for this topic they go hand in hand thats why most of them are in a church. The TRUTH will always be hidden because pastors, imams, rabbis are ALL in on the take. "Without the masses they cant get their lunch money" Taj Tarik Bey


Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 04:01 AM
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I personally do not believe in Heaven or Hell, nor do I believe the Bible should be taken as "fact" but as a spiritual guide.

In other words I'm not exactly "Christian" .. so why should I care what Christians think of Freemasonry? Some people say it's evil, devil worship, blah, blah, blah .. but you cannot worship what you don't believe in .. you cannot "accidentally" worship the "devil".

Thus, philosophically, the actions of Masonic rituals will have no effect on the individual Mason (ie, me) but instead on those that take an altered perception of the Craft (ie, anti-masons) to which we could argue the ethics regarding "minding your own business".. My soul is mine own to do with as I please.. if my ways of religious worship or philosophical understanding offend you, I suggest you get over it and look to yourself.

Usually when one projects their religious views they seek encouragement or agreement to sate their own desires for reassurance. When they meet opposition from freethinking individuals it places a burden on their mental understanding of their own belief systems. Ones who do such things do not like to be questioned or have objective propositions give to them because they seek only one thing: Reassurance for their own religious/spiritual insecurity.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by OldHag
 

Well, you still fail as MAAT09 asked where JESUS spoke of "Christians". You post a verse from the 11th Chapter of Acts, when chronologically speaking that event would have occurred several years after the Ascension of Christ. The congregation not the Lord and Savior called themselves "Christians"



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I personally do not believe in Heaven or Hell

OFF TOPIC




posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by OldHag
 

Well, you still fail as MAAT09 asked where JESUS spoke of "Christians". You post a verse from the 11th Chapter of Acts, when chronologically speaking that event would have occurred several years after the Ascension of Christ. The congregation not the Lord and Savior called themselves "Christians"


Read all what i wrote, not only a part!

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God


Ga naar de opticiën voor een nieuwe fok!!



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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You cannot be a freemason and be a born-again Christian. Rather, I should say, if you are a Christian and are taking part in freemasonry, I suggest you stop.

Freemasonry goes against the Bible.

If a freemason claims to be a Christian, then he is lying, or he is living a life of blasphemy to the Lord his God.
edit on 17-2-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


Thanks Milkyway, it needed to be said just as it is so. One cannot partake of the table of satan and the Lord. This argument tires me, for the obvious grand denial of what is blatently apparent. Seems an excercise in futility.





 
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