"Gay Marriage" apparently not all it was cracked up to be

reply to post by KwisatzHaderach


No where in this entire thread did I speak about sex with animals.

Go back and read my posts and you'll find I specifically said ....

"I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH MY DOG"

When I spoke about marrying my dog it was based on love and companionship and I completely excluded the sexual aspect. Shows where your mind is though.

I don't care about all the hypocritical excuses why people want to say it's different. To some people same sex couples are just as ridiculous an idea as some one wanting to marry their dog.

Just because you are OK with one and not the other doesn't change the fact that both of them are wrong to some people. Many people think that a marriage is between a man and a woman and that's how it should stay.

Your opinion is no more valid than theirs or mine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and as of this moment in the United States the majority agrees with me. Same sex marriage is only legal in a very few States.

reply to post by sdcigarpig

This was attempted many times in the past, when the ideology of one group was attempted to be pushed on to others. And in history it led to some of the most brutal and cruel treatments, all recorded fully.

Yes it's true and right now it's the ideology of the gay community that is being pushed upon the religious community and others who do not agree with same sex couples calling their relationships "marriage".

Is it an ideology? Or is it the demand for equality under the law? After all the many people who are gay, including those who are in the closet have that deep seated attraction to those of the same sex. And the science as to why one person is attracted to another one, is still a very young discipline.

The gay community, it is not worshipped, seeks no worship, really does not want to be in the spot light, or have the eyes of the country on them. However, they do demand, and with good reason, equality under the eyes of the law, and that is perfectly acceptable.

Is it wrong for the majority to suppress the rights of the minority? It has been in the past and still is.
Gay people want to be considered equal in all aspects of the law, to be treated as such, and to ultimately have the same rights, privileges and benefits as everyone else. We ask them to pay taxes, obey the laws of the land, yet deny them the same very rights that straight people enjoy, all cause they are attracted to those who are the same sex.

Marriage in the US has been in trouble for a long time, longer than the gay rights even got off the ground. You brought up that one of the poster couples for gay marriage is getting divorced, yet no one has answered how is this different than any one else, even a high profile person getting divorced. The we watch and linger on the misery of others, paying attention to the next breaking scandal, by high profile people. Headlines often are splashed with the misery of those who are rich and famous, in a perverted twist of humor and glee often celebrate when they get divorced, as it shows that like all others, they are just like everyone else, except that they have more money.

This was not really newsworthy, save to bring sensationalism to a paper, and for what, profit of the news agency that reported it, as it uses the current fear and hot button topic to sell more copies. That is what this really is all about, the dollar and making a quick buck. Think about of high profile divorces, from the royal families in Europe, their weddings are splashed on every front page, televised, to their dirty laundry aired for all to see. To the divorces of famous people, here again, the dirty laundry is there for all to see. So they lasted a year, big deal, it is not something new, people break up all of the time. How is this any different than say the divorce of Johnny Carson from his second wife, or that of say Prince Charles and Lady Dianna?

As we can not force the religious establishment to wed 2 people they do not want to, but then again marriage really is not in the sole control of the religious, it is a matter of law, and in the hands of the state. And as it is in the hands of the state, then it would only be befitting that it is the state that does the marriages, as anyone who wants to get married has to include the state in their decision, lest they be denied the rights and legal protections of being married.

And there are some churches willing to marry 2 people of the same sex, do we now dictate to them, violating their rights on what they can and can not teach as doctrine? That too is another aspect of the entire gay issue that has come up.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig

And there are some churches willing to marry 2 people of the same sex, do we now dictate to them, violating their rights on what they can and can not teach as doctrine? That too is another aspect of the entire gay issue that has come up.

This is an excellent point. If a church is willing to marry 2 people of the same sex and call them "married in the eyes of God", what right does anyone else have to say that they can't call it "marriage"?

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by sdcigarpig

 

This was attempted many times in the past, when the ideology of one group was attempted to be pushed on to others. And in history it led to some of the most brutal and cruel treatments, all recorded fully.

Yes it's true and right now it's the ideology of the gay community that is being pushed upon the religious community and others who do not agree with same sex couples calling their relationships "marriage".

They're not forcing YOU to become gay, they are simply asking for the SAME RIGHTS you enjoy. You know...freedom FROM religion. What's happening is that a select group of fundamentalist Christian fools is trying to push their values onto others in a country where state (aka laws) and religion (ANY religion) are to be kept separately.

Gays marrying has ZERO impact on you, and being against it means you don't accept that they deserve the same rights you enjoy.

Maureen Walsh sums it up nicely:



As for your incredibly silly dog analogy...you're joking, right? We're talking about HUMAN RIGHTS, not animal or human-animal rights. By using that bigoted analogy, you're essentially saying gays are like animals (dogs). So well done...you presented a prime example of what it means to be a bigot, and what it means to support a 2-class society where some have more rights than others based on your irrational beliefs.

reply to post by zerimar65

Hi Zerimar -

My point is : What is the basis for your jejune stance on the definition of 'marriage' being between ONE woman and ONE man?

In other words, is your opinion on this (e.g. what you wrote " if gays wanted to get married they should have been born straight" or other such jejune nonsense) based on anything 'biblical' i.e. from the post exilic priestly writings from the cults of the post-exilic clan god of the Jews (the YHWH of the 'bible') or are you attempting to base your ignorance on 'nature' alone (forgetting or just not knowing that homosexuality is absolutely RAMPANT in the animal kingdom from doves to rams 'getting it on with the same sex')?

If your silly statements are based on a pseudo-biblical stance you're in for a BIG surprise - especially when you bother to take the time closely to read the mangled paleoHebrew texts of the 'holy' scriptures of the Jews - and discover - oh the shock and awe ! - that persons like 'David' about whom is written such garbage as 'behold David my servant, a man after mine own heart saith YHWH' - not only had a blatant homosexual affair with another male - his boy toy Jonathan about which was made the most outrageous homosexual accusations (1 Sam 18:1-4, 1 Sam 20:30, and also the love poetry Daviid wrote for him 2 Sam 1:24-26)

As well as having numerous wives (can you say: polygamy ? what about ONE man and ONE woman?) but also was a cold blooded Murderer (he killed Uriah the Hittite) and an Adulterer (with Bath-Shebiti, ('bathsheba') the Jebusite wife of Uriah the Hittite).

David was also a Defector against Yisro'el (he in fact spent a few years living amongst his former 'enemies' the Filistin / Phlistines, who had rival anti YHWH cult temples all around the area of present day Gaza - all busilly worshipping the bearded man-fish-god 'Dagon')

Technically, David was also a Blasphemer (being of the tribe of Judah (and not LEVI) who dared to dance NAKED in front of the Ark of the Covenant - something only the priestly LEVITES of the cult of YHWH were ever able to approach, let alone dance naked in front of - !!)

And last of all - but certainly not least, David was (through his grand-mother Ruth) racially speaking, a 'Moabite', and therefore NOT an 'Israelite' at all, at least according to the Torah ('no Ammonite OR Moabite shall ever enter the Assembly of YHWH not even beyond the 10th Generation', says the book of 'Deutero-nomy' part of the supposedly ancient Torah of the Jews).

Not that you'd know any of these little factoids or anything.

Also, if your stance on 'heterosexual marriage only' is in any way 'biblically based' in the 'christian fundamentalist sense'I sure hope, yes sir, that there is no DIVORCE any where in your family - like there was among the family of Anita Bryant - otherwise according to R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk ho 'Iesous'), and also to Saul of Tarsus, the purported founder of 'Pauline Christianity' in the NT 'epistles' bearing his name, there are charges of 'ADULTERY' that MUST be laid against any divorced perpetrators - and we all know what stoning to death for Adultery meant in those days !!

So what DO you base your ignorant assumptions on anyway? Something your mommy once told you about the 'sanctity of marriage' when you were little ?

Originally posted by kaylaluv


...If a church is willing to marry 2 people of the same sex and call them "married in the eyes of God", what right does anyone else have to say that they can't call it "marriage"?

You've probably hit the nail on the head. The religious would be forced to share their sanctified and revered word with you, the hedonistic or at the very least promiscuous homosexual - or come up with their own.

And why should they change! They're the one's that complain the loudest! They have to fight this or they have very publicly lost the battle.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by KwisatzHaderach

 

No where in this entire thread did I speak about sex with animals.

Go back and read my posts and you'll find I specifically said ....

"I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH MY DOG"

When I spoke about marrying my dog it was based on love and companionship and I completely excluded the sexual aspect. Shows where your mind is though.

I don't care about all the hypocritical excuses why people want to say it's different. To some people same sex couples are just as ridiculous an idea as some one wanting to marry their dog.

excuses? Wow I seriously feel sorry for you. You seriously can't come up with anything better then saying same sex is the same as marrying an animal. Your arguments, pitiful and absurd, show just how homophobic and hateful you are. You are so against someone's sexual preference/identity that is different than yours that you think they deserve no human rights that one is entitled to when one gets married.

Just because you are OK with one and not the other doesn't change the fact that both of them are wrong to some people. Many people think that a marriage is between a man and a woman and that's how it should stay.

See you just proved to everybody in this thread that you are homophobic.

Your opinion is no more valid than theirs or mine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and as of this moment in the United States the majority agrees with me. Same sex marriage is only legal in a very few States.

The only reason that same sex marriage is only legal in a very few states is thanks to the ignorant powers to be that are "old money". They are the ones that set everything in place and try to keep it that way to keep people dumbed down and pinned against one another.

reply to post by knoledgeispower


They're not just doing it when it comes to gay marriage, they're also willing to prevent contraception, even at the cost of human lives. It's stuff like that making it abundantly clear that we have to stop listening to fundamentalists (Christians or otherwise) as they are the village idiots of the nation.

Frank Schaeffer put it best:



I used to get really angry at them, nowadays I just pity them because their opinions are based on brainwashing and a simple lack of education. Luckily they're a crazy minority...but they're also very vocal. It's time the sane people stand up and tell them to f*** off.

I mean, if you read drivel like this you really have to wonder:

You know that if a man and a woman have been a couple living together for more than 8 years in the USA they are legally considered a domestic partnership and all the same laws apply to them (if they split up) as if they were married. However I don't believe this law applies to same sex couples. How is that fair?

I agree, it's NOT fair. Why? Because they have to be together for 8 years (!!!!) to get the same rights others get by signing a simple piece of paper.

This is always comical to me. The usage of the word "sanctified" and "sacred"-these by definition are religious terms. They have no place in the eye of the law in the U.S. Separation of church and state means that the law cannot see religious arguments using those terms as valid.

Marriage is within every culture-linking of assets and a public declaration of devotion. Contrary to the whims of many a Christian marriage is no more valid than a shinto marriage or a judge simply signing the certificate. No more value whatsoever.

I do dislike "Gay Marriage" because all there is is "marriage". Two adults expression devotion to each other. Marriages last a long time or fall apart. That is human nature-it has nothing at all to do with whether they are gay or straight. To claim otherwise simply shows a degree of stupidity that I am unwilling to acknowlege as remotely valid.

It is important to stress that the exact same arguments against gays getting married are the same ones that the uneducated racists made when they were debating allowing interracial marriage.

Grow up. Consenting adults have rights. Consenting adults who have rights and nobody gets hurt should be allowed to do whatever they want. How can a site so full of "Libertarians" be against personal rights?

Says a lot about the crowd and the devotion they have to freedom.

I hear a lot of "The government has no rights in my house or bedroom".. Well neither do superstitions and mythology.

reply to post by knoledgeispower

The only reason that same sex marriage is only legal in a very few states is thanks to the ignorant powers to be that are "old money". They are the ones that set everything in place and try to keep it that way to keep people dumbed down and pinned against one another.

No, the reasons same sex marriage is not legal is because the MAJORITY of people agree with me.

You can continue to cry an whine and call me names OR you can accept the truth. I don't really care what you want to think about me. I know who I am. You're the confused one. You talk as if same sex marriage is already accepted and legal. When in all actuality it is not and it ill stay that way until people like you learn how to respect other peoples opinions. It's because of your lack of respect why you're so blind to your own disgraceful way of presenting your thoughts and opinions.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
[No, the reasons same sex marriage is not legal is because the MAJORITY of people agree with me.

Not according to recent polls.

Last year for the first time the polls tipped in favor of same gender marriage.

Plus most of the younger up and coming generation just doesn't care.

reply to post by Annee


It's easy to say that without providing any factual evidence to support your claim.

I would like to see that poll and what the demographics of it were.

How many people were polled? What areas were the poll conducted? What was the actual questions asked in the poll?


EDIT:

I think you've made some valid points and I respect your opinion. Like I said in the OP I believe that same sex couples deserve the rights as other couples. My opinion is that same sex couples should respect other peoples thoughts on this issue too though.

Before reading some of the comments by people who disagree with me, I actually had more respect for them than I do now. It's due to the rude, disrespectful behavior of people like "knoledgeispower" that has made me feel even more opposed.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Its easier to make claims contrary to common sense when a simple google check would have proven you wrong. But I suppose thats the point.

New Jersey is the current hotbed so here is just one link to a poll there:

Here is simple one poll: New Jersey

Spend 30 seconds on google and you would find many more examples.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Annee

 

It's easy to say that without providing any factual evidence to support your claim.

I would like to see that poll and what the demographics of it were.

How many people were polled? What areas were the poll conducted? What was the actual questions asked in the poll?

Its a group that does this poll once a year. They've been doing it for several years.

It wasn't a major shift 52% favor - 48 % against.

Don't remember the name.

reply to post by xmaox


In the UK, the benefits come as tax codes for married couples, the right to recieve life insurance once your partner has passed.

I'm proud to be gay, but dont like the term 'gay marriage', why isnt it just called marriage, all we want is to be treated equally, i find it offensive to think that new laws need to be passed for me to be classed as an equal citizen, why shouldnt i be already? I pay income tax, VAT and national insurance. I am equal to any one else and i dont need a law to tell me that i am.

The divorce rate is higher amongs straight couples, people talk about the sanctity of the church, no offense but look around at religion in the modern world, its as corrupt and out of touch as the US government.

my last word to anyone on this subject is this....... stop concerning yourself with what other people are doing, go out and live your life to your beliefs, and just give me and my beliefs the respect i give to you and yours

reply to post by lordtyp0


From your link

latimesblogs.latimes.com...
surveyed 914 registered voters and found that 54% of them support gay marriage, which New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie opposes. Thirty-five percent oppose gay marriage, the poll found.

You actually think 914 people in New Jersey is a valid representation of the entire United States ?

I knew the demographics of these polls would be skewed and of you probably failed to even read it yourself.

Spend 30 seconds on google and you would find many more examples.

If the other examples are as ridiculous as the one you provided, why should I even waste my time? I can pull up plenty of biased poll to support my opinion. But I don't need to try to win this debate with false evidence.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Given it was random selection from Voters-and given that more and more states are making same sex marriage legal. Yes, its a fair sampling. Live in denial all you like. Your mode of thinking is going into the dark where it belongs.

reply to post by lordtyp0


Of course you think it's fair sampling. Because it supports your views.

Try finding a poll from middle america that supports your views.

Good luck with that.

more and more states are making same sex marriage legal.

A whole whopping 6 - 7 States

Defense of Marriage Act

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

The laughy face is childish and annoying. We are speaking of human beings here.

I have no idea what poll it was. There is probably more then one - - with different demographics.

Fact is - - we are moving toward Full Equal Rights. Not away from it.

Just a couple years ago Ellen would not be advertising for Penney's - - - sportscasters would not be suspended for anti-gay tweets - - - etc.

The Times They Are A-Changin'

Years from now we will look back on people like you - - - as we look back on the George Wallaces of their generation.