Venezuela threatens Britain over Falklands as its president vows to side with Argentina

reply to post by markygee


Irony

reply to post by mkgandhas


There is no evidence for what you suggest and the reason for that is because it isn't true.

reply to post by michael1983l

Denial .Are you american or british?

www.nysun.com...

why did US govt help and allow the funding of IRA?
www.ciadrugs.com...


emptywheel.firedoglake.com...


I previously provided evidence and again I have check CIAdrugs(CIA fake terror and drug cartelism)

reply to post by mkgandhas


Yeah very reputable websites displaying lots of facts right?

reply to post by theubermensch

Wow. The world is openly forming two teams.

Rebels vs Imperialists.

And who are the Imperialists here?
The nation protecting and defending a people's inalienable Right to Self-Determination or a country and it's allies that wants to impose it's rule on a territory it has no legal, moral or historic right to and in contravention of the UN Charter?

reply to post by PrecogPsychicSensitive

let the UN deal with it... you seem to like UN justice most of the time.

The Right to Self-Determination, is that such an alien concept to someone from 'the land of the free'?

Or is 'freedom' only applicable for those that agree with you and your narrow minded view of the world?

Oh really??? Like the English claimed Australia, killed the Aborigines, then stole their land??? How many other countries have England done this too??

Slightly inaccurate and a bit rich coming from an American!

As much as I depise the UN.. maybe they should sort it out?

Yes, I agree.
As laid out in the UN Charter

The UN CharterIn 1941 Allies of World War II signed the Atlantic Charter and accepted the principle of self-determination. In January 1942 twenty-six states signed the Declaration by United Nations, which accepted those principles. The ratification of the United Nations Charter in 1945 at the end of World War II placed the right of self-determination into the framework of international law and diplomacy.

Chapter 1, Article 1, part 2 states that purpose of the UN Charter is: "To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace."[13]
Article 1 in both the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)[14] and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR).[15] Both read: "All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."

www.hrweb.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by woodwardjnr


woody my friend, calm down - no-one is going to war over this.
Kirchner and now Chavez are simply mouthing predictable soundbites to deflect from their domestic failings and to boost their international reputations etc.
The Argentinian Air Force wouldn't get off the ground and their Navy would be obliterated as soon as they left port.
They know that and we know that.
Any escalation, if at all possible, would be met in kind.

It's nothing but political rhetoric and maneuvering.

The only people who are going to miss out and suffer just to feed politicians ego's and ambitions will be the ordinary Argentinian people.

reply to post by mkgandhas

It was time that the world community said enough and demanded that the british monarchy return the stolen islands to the democratic govt of Argentina.

Zzzzzzz.....same old hatred and nonsense.

It has nothing to do with 'the british monarchy' who are a complete irrelevance and who have nothing to do other than ceremonial duties in the governing of the UK or it's Overseas Territories.

And how can something be 'stolen' from someone who never owned it?

reply to post by starchild10

I think we should do a deal with Argentina but building in some sort of protection for those who want to remain.

What, like offer Argentina a full share of the oil development in The Falklands area despite them having no legal claim whatsover?
This would provide a massive boost to the Argentinian economy etc, boosted Argentinian profile on the world stage and greatly improved relations between Argentina and The UK and The Falklanders themselves.

That's right, we did that but Kirchner turned down that very generous offer.

Why?

Guys, i wouldn't even bother trying to have a reasonable argument with mkgandhas. Try banging your heads against brick walls for a few hours, it would be more productive and less of a annoyance! He is the biggest WUM on ATS

Venezuela is threatning England? England is threatening Argentina by sending a war ship and a nuclear sub when they have even less military power than in 1982, Argentina only has training planes and some random combat planes, its the country with the least military funding on the continent, yet England feels so threatened that they send all that military power? What a great country they are right?

reply to post by NightFlyer96


Clearly not read all the thread...

Let me fill you in with one of my answers to a comment just like yours earlier on.

How is it going too far, it is a standard tour of duty. It will be there for around 6 months and will the be replaced by another warship as is standard. It isn't there to start a war but to deter one. It has gone down to replace the current destroyer that is down there as that warships tour of duty is up.

There has been the same presence down there all the time!!! Just because one of the new destroyers has gone down to REPLACE the other one which has finished it's 6 month duty! That new destroyer that is down there will in turn be replaced by another warship in 6 months.....

This is not sending extra warships there, it just rotating a shift like you do at work....

How many times!

reply to post by Freeborn


Well it was early when I first posted and was feeling a bit ratty and the jingoistic tone of the OP just got me riled. I don't believe we will go to war over this, although by the looks of things getting public support would be relatively easy. I just get annoyed when people start tossing around the term tactical nukes as a solution to our problems.

But, your right the Argentinian armed forces are not up too much, so I doubt they have any military ambitions of taking back the islands.

The Oil the OIL the OIL.......
You think Gbritain is into it for sheep dip?
Type 48 destroyer is a billion dollar warship...replaces an older smaller ship of the frigate class.....
The destroyers main arms are anti air and anti ship missiles......
The Sub probably has a few torpedoes and missiles of its own....
This and a rag tag force of Tommys man the defenses against the entire military of two countries who have threatened attacks recently....HMMMMMM
Doesnt sound like overkilll yet.....
However if anyone thinks Britain will back down from a conflict, they are greatly mistaken.
The entire Commonwealth of Nations would not desert Britain should they be called upon for their assistance.
I believe both Canada, and the ANZAACs would stand by to assist....
The US would undoubtedly jump in because they will demand to have their very own pound of flesh afterwards....
Inroads into South America are much desired and the CIA has played its games there for decades.....seeking just such opportunity.
Sometimes i wonder if the drug war is encourged by the US goverment to give them a reason for much other covert activity in South American politics and goverments.
As well as offering unlimited opportunity for black project funds.....
Having already heard public calls for the execution or assassination of Chavez (by an american church leader no less)
It is undoubtedly an opportunity for the US to settle old scores and assure itself of even greater oil resources.....
The Argentinian troubles could be the start of something way bigger than anyone expects right now.....
yet the US military is well capable of conquering a large chunk of the continent for itself.
Should the opportunity arise, and this may be a good excuse......
Wed better watch this closely for signs of expansion....

The Oil the OIL the OIL.......
You think Gbritain is into it for sheep dip?
Type 48 destroyer is a billion dollar warship...replaces an older smaller ship of the frigate class.....
The destroyers main arms are anti air and anti ship missiles......
The Sub probably has a few torpedoes and missiles of its own....
This and a rag tag force of Tommys man the defenses against the entire military of two countries who have threatened attacks recently....HMMMMMM
Doesnt sound like overkilll yet.....
However if anyone thinks Britain will back down from a conflict, they are greatly mistaken.
The entire Commonwealth of Nations would not desert Britain should they be called upon for their assistance.
I believe both Canada, and the ANZAACs would stand by to assist....
The US would undoubtedly jump in because they will demand to have their very own pound of flesh afterwards....
Inroads into South America are much desired and the CIA has played its games there for decades.....seeking just such opportunity.
Sometimes i wonder if the drug war is encourged by the US goverment to give them a reason for much other covert activity in South American politics and goverments.
As well as offering unlimited opportunity for black project funds.....
Having already heard public calls for the execution or assassination of Chavez (by an american church leader no less)
It is undoubtedly an opportunity for the US to settle old scores and assure itself of even greater oil resources.....
The Argentinian troubles could be the start of something way bigger than anyone expects right now.....
yet the US military is well capable of conquering a large chunk of the continent for itself.
Should the opportunity arise, and this may be a good excuse......
Wed better watch this closely for signs of expansion....

venezuela now having a pop....

open comment to the secretary of defence.rt hon phillip hammond

can i please have loan of a canoe,an sa80 (mk2 pref but not essential if budget constraints apply),a flask of coffee (not argentinian or venezuelan).a packed lunch and 60 embassy no1 cigs.
i will then conquer venezuela and if i have time in the afternoon will at least make a start on argentina.
i am free on saturday and sunday of this week.

N.B. i reserve the right to govern the enslaved populations on the falklands in corned beef and pan pipe factories

yours vipertruck99

reply to post by PrecogPsychicSensitive


Thats fine if America gets rid of Hawaii then maybe the UK can get rid of the Falkland Islands, same deal, you are forgetting the fact that the Falklands are self governed and are under the protection of the UK and if they ask for our help that is there right to and our right to defend them, if they do wish us to.

It was a different story when the Japs came to Hawaii all those years ago, there was no question then about sovereignty then.

back off out of a fight you cannot win, the Argies are just saber rattling again, its the 30th anniversary of the invasions and its abit sour with them, that is all.

Wee Mad

This is ridiculous, why is argentina even bothered with it?

As some people have said, it's "shameful" for england to hold onto these islands but I think not, the are our people and chose to be.

I think it's rather shameful for argentina to be like this over"petty islands" as some of you say. The people that have lived on those islands CHOSE us. Leave it at that, why chose argentinas side? englighten me please and why should the people move away from THEIR home because some selfish goverment from argantina woke up one day and said they don't like it. what a load of tosh.

Picture of the British Oversea Territories

This is a map of the British Territories we have protectorate over, we have the right to defend any these territories, we have been at logger heads with the Argies since before oil was found and will long protect them after it has gone.

Wee Mad

reply to post by weemadmental


Sometimes a lost argument but oh well

Off to listen to iron maiden

Originally posted by PrecogPsychicSensitive
England needs to quit with the colony crap and mind its own business, leave those islands to the South Americans to manage.. if the Islands were parked off Englands shores I'd say they have a claim, but they are half a world away. Is England that petty it must fight over tiny pieces of land? Apparently so.. shameful.

what are talking about. Surely the people who live there (whose ancestors have lived there for 150 years) have a say in who they wish to be ruled by or not. Or are you against democracy and all for imperialism?

Are you saying that a piece of land has to be certain size before it can be considered for self determination, what size would that be?

New Zealand belongs to Australia?
Japan belongs to China?

Surely it does not matter what size an area of land is as long as all the people within that distinct area agree as to how they wish to be governed.

Guess what they WANT to remain British. This has absolutely nothing to with imperialism by the British but respecting the wishes of the Falklanders. The Argentinians wish to occupy the land and throw out people whose ancestors have lived there peacefully for 150 years , until the Argentinian invasion 20 years ago !!!!)

Did you know that Argentinians who have visited the islands have been shocked at what they found a British people, a British culture, British shops, speaking English and not one Argentinian in sight. They go back home to tell their family and friends but are met with derision due to the brainwashing that the typical Argentinian has been subjected to for years.

Don't believe me ? Go read and found out and "Deny ignorance".

Oh nearly forgot: The total amount of time Argentinian civilians have occupied the Falklands ZERO SECONDS! The total time Argentinian military has occupied the islands 3MONTHS (nov 1832-jan1833).
Even the freaking French have occupied the islands longer than the Argentinians!!!!! The ONLY civilians to have EVER occupied the Falklands are the British and that has been constantly since 1860.

One last point in case it hasn't hit home yet. The Falklands were occupied by the British whilst arguing with the Spanish at the same time that an area of South America was stolen from the native indians by invading Spanish in area called River Plate. These EUROPEAN invaders wanted self determination free of sovereign rule from Spain and thus Argentina was born. I mean DUH doesn't anyone see the hypocrisy in their claim!!

No one is going to be fighting over the Falklands. With the anniversary its just creates lots of talk. So long as the people on the islands want to be part of the UK they will remain so. The UK is a US ally and Argentina is a major US non NATO ally and outside of some talking neither has an intrest in acting. Venezuela's opinions are worth about as much its ability to do anything in such a conflict, nothing.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Link

It appears yet more aggression and sabre ratling from the south america's and not suprising coming from Venezuela. I believe it is starting to get to a stage now where the UK are going to have to flex their muscles in a warning to any of those countries that want to continue to threaten the Falkland Islands choosen soverignty. This may be an ideal time to test out our new Type 45 Destroyers, Astute Class nuclear submarines and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

It's not your destroyers, submarines or jets, it's of the current government, more precisely military, your national pride is just a tool.

The Venezuela aspect sure got dropped in a hurry. In case no one has noticed there has been a small but growing Latin America unity movement. Can't say I blame them after years, far too many years of exploitation. I doubt it will come to a war but if it does I expect 'several' (there are still plenty of US backed puppet governments) Latin American countries will come to the aid of Argentina short of joining in actual combat. Again, if it does come to war the CIA may well choose the winner in which case Argentina stands a decent chance. They lost by a whisker in 1982.

Great Falklands site

www.naval-history.net...