Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by theubermensch
Just because you own a house or a small business does not make you a captalist. You are all still workers. If you own a small business and think you are not a 'worker' you are kidding yourself.

Unless you are in a 'Trust' you are a worker.

edit on 2-2-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

Exactly.

To be a true capitalist you have use your capital to make profit by hiring labour.

"Capitalism is the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others." Louis Blanc, the first use of that term.

If you don't earn your living that way you are not a capitalist, you're a worker.

This thread is full of the petty bourgeois it seems. To good to be called a lowly 'worker'.

edit on 2/2/2012 by ANOK because: typo

Essentially... Capitalism is a giant/perpetual pyramid scheme...

And combined with current massive globalization... it's a race to the bottom.

Originally posted by ANOK

Exactly.

To be a true capitalist you have use your capital to make profit by hiring labour.

"Capitalism is the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others." Louis Blanc, the first use of that term.

In a capitalist FREE MARKET NO ONE should have monopoly over any industry, it is in socialist markets that monopoly over industries is possible...

It is in socialism and communism that centralization or monopoly is attained...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Those "10 planks" are the motions of society in the transition to communism from socialism. The state in this context refers to the now proletariat controlled state or the dictatorship of the proletariat. This is coupled with the ownership of production.

In communism there is no state...

The cooperative part means to cooperate. Y'know, work together. Not as a corporation.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


So Walmart is socialist too?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Tsurugi


I hate to break it to you, but most first or second world countries are facing economic collapse because of public debt.

And that debt has been brought on by socialist/communist ideas.. such as central banks... The World Bank, the IMF, the Feds, etc, etc...

False again. These are all tools of the Capitalist. Privately owned and privately controlled, tyrannies on their own. Your misconception is because of the fact these institutions have affiliations with governmental structures, but that is not socialism. It is fascism.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Tsurugi


I hate to break it to you, but most first or second world countries are facing economic collapse because of public debt.

And that debt has been brought on by socialist/communist ideas.. such as central banks... The World Bank, the IMF, the Feds, etc, etc...

Umm... those are not really Socialist ideas. They're actually quite Capitalist entities... sort of authoritarian market entities that con poor countries out of their resources/money. Squeezing the little guys... what Capitalism is so adept at promoting.

Originally posted by aravoth
this was already covered, everyone and everything is socialist, we get it. Socialism good, everything else, doesn't work, or is stupid, or kill people, or destroys something, or whatever...

This sounds like someone who has no argument, and is reluctantly unable to disagree, but are loathed to admit it in public.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by theubermensch
Just because you own a house or a small business does not make you a captalist. You are all still workers. If you own a small business and think you are not a 'worker' you are kidding yourself.

Unless you are in a 'Trust' you are a worker.

edit on 2-2-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

Exactly.

To be a true capitalist you have use your capital to make profit by hiring labour.

"Capitalism is the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others." Louis Blanc, the first use of that term.

Have you ever hired anyone in your life on a company payroll of a business owned by YOU?

I have five well-paid employees on company payroll. 3 American and 2 non-American. We just moved HQ to Michigan Avenue and will be doing some more hiring soon due to the influx of contracts. Does that shut the hateful gates of your loathing mind?

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by omarm1984

 

Bono... not egotistical?!? O.O

And Einstein was a socialist...

this was already covered, everyone and everything is socialist, we get it. Socialism good, everything else, doesn't work, or is stupid, or kill people, or destroys something, or whatever...

No, Einstein was actually a socialist.

Wiki article on Einstein's 'Why Socialism?'

Originally posted by omarm1984
Capitalism is human freedom, I agree.

In terms of money, sure. The more money you have, the more freedom you have. Try telling the lower 10% that they have the same freedom as the top 10% within a capitalist country.

Go to a place like Cuba and ask them about freedom. There is no top or bottom 10% there because socialism abolishes such class disparity. Socialism allows individual to advance based on their merits within society, not because they have the money to advance.

And trust me, I've lived all of my life in a capitalist country. It doesn't matter what I think or my marks in school or my capability to learn and adapt; I was born poor, and thus I am seen by the establishment as a worker for life and I've been severely marginalized for testing the boundaries of the social reality of capitalist society.

Simply put, in capitalist society, you are not worth anything to the establishment unless you have the money to prove it. It's not fair, it's not freedom, but it's reality.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ANOK

Exactly.

To be a true capitalist you have use your capital to make profit by hiring labour.

"Capitalism is the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others." Louis Blanc, the first use of that term.

In a capitalist FREE MARKET NO ONE should have monopoly over any industry, it is in socialist markets that monopoly over industries is possible...

It is in socialism and communism that centralization or monopoly is attained...

Nonsense. This is the propaganda you have been fed. It's nothing but poetry. The entire aim of the capitalist is to become a monopoly. Only then can he secure his position on the market place. Remember John. D. Rockefeller and what he used to say? 'There is only one sin and that is competition'. He knew what he was talking about. It didn't take long for him to control the entire oil supply, and much more

reply to post by maestromason


it is great you own a business and hire people and create wealth, no one is accusing you of being a bad person..

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ANOK

Exactly.

To be a true capitalist you have use your capital to make profit by hiring labour.

"Capitalism is the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others." Louis Blanc, the first use of that term.

In a capitalist FREE MARKET NO ONE should have monopoly over any industry, it is in socialist markets that monopoly over industries is possible...

It is in socialism and communism that centralization or monopoly is attained...

Oh really?? And DO TELL ME... what happens when an individual/business/group owns ALL or MOST of any given resource or land or labor?? Is that not a monopoly?? What if the big dogs get together to make their own covert deals WITHOUT the need for government to secure them?? You are hopelessly naive in your trust of economic power to do the right thing. Economic hierarchies/stratification are just as corruptible as hierarchies of power/coercion. The entire concept of non-authoritarian Socialism (Libertarian-Socialism... sometimes considered Anarchism) is a horizontal society where NOBODY holds much or any power/wealth over and above other humans (or species). Neither the markets nor the governments should be able to dole out the rights to own our planet or the people/species (or their labors/lives, whether directly or de facto) of this planet.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Please, just stop. You're really embarrassing yourself.

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by ANOK

 

I think your a bit confused, if you can produce what you need that is capitalism. We dont live in true capitalism so its wrong to blame capitalism for social problems.

No. Capitalism is the private ownership of production means. The workers are in essence wage-slaves.
P
You have been propagandized with the rhetoric of self-reliance, self-sustainability. Doesn't exist in a capitalist society, probably cannot exist anywhere because we are forced to cooperate. It doesn't exist in a capitalist society because you are going to need others to help you. Who runs the show? The workers? No. The owner, who owns private ownership of everything that happens. Your workers are your wage-slaves.

I've never been hired for gainful employment or received a paycheck from a fellow slave worker. Have you?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Most people in here are just learning this stuff in college, so they'll just keep regurgitating what their professor or textbook tells them until they finally get a job in real life. Once that happens it'll be a few more years of complaining because they got a degree in a useless field of study and want everyone else to pay it off for them, cause thats the "fair thing to do". When they realize that the only way that thing is going to get paid off is by working, they'll bitch and moan about society and wonder why everyone can't be just as miserable as they are, living poor and sharing work on a farm.

Until they finally get old, and complain even more that someone owes them a retirement.

It's funny because they think this is a new thing, or some kind of "awakening", really it's a bunch of people who's lives can be summed up by an enormous collection of bad choices they personally made, and they lash out at those that did not make bad choices because of it.

They won't ever understand what you are talking about, because they think they know better than you. They are absolutely convinced of it, and they only speak in echo chambers.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy


Essentially... Capitalism is a giant/perpetual pyramid scheme...

Not really, centralization, and monopoly are pyramid schemes and neither one of them is part of capitalism...

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
And combined with current massive globalization... it's a race to the bottom.

Do tell me, what is "massive globalization" but a tenet of socialism/communism?...

Democratising Global Governance:

The Challenges of the World Social Forum

by

Francesca Beausang



ABSTRACT

This paper sums up the debate that took place during the two round tables organized by UNESCO within the first World Social Forum in Porto Alegre (25/30 January 2001). It starts with a discussion of national processes, by examining democracy and then governance at the national level. It first states a case for a "joint" governance based on a combination of stakeholder theory, which is derived from corporate governance, and of UNESCO's priorities in the field of governance. As an example, the paper investigates how governance can deviate from democracy in the East Asian model. Subsequently, the global dimension of the debate on democracy and governance is examined, first by identification of the characteristics and agents of democracy in the global setting, and then by allusion to the difficulties of transposing governance to the global level.


...
The governments of Europe, the United States, and Japan are unlikely to negotiate a social-democratic pattern of globalization – unless their hands are forced by a popular movement or a catastrophe, such as another Great Depression or ecological disaster

www.unesco.org...

reply to post by ANOK


Oh no... I've read the whole thread and have been following along. Those of you promoting socialism keep beating the same statements to death. I mean really? Is Spain the only shining light of "true" socialism you can hold up?

I've listened to your assertions regarding Wall Street financing the Soviet Union, Spain scaring the crap out of the elitists, and how wonderful it would be to have the collective own the means of production.

It's not that I can't envision what you are talking about - it's just that your logic and estimation of human character are sadly lacking.

Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Please, just stop. You're really embarrassing yourself.

So I am embarrassing myself with facts?...

That's a new one... well not really...

Originally posted by maestromason

Have you ever hired anyone in your life on a company payroll of a business owned by YOU?

No, why would I? If I opened a company it would be a cooperative/collective. I have no desire to make money exploiting people.

I have five well-paid employees on company payroll. 3 American and 2 non-American. We just moved HQ to Michigan Avenue and will be doing some more hiring soon due to the influx of contracts. Does that shut the hateful gates of your loathing mind?

Well that's good for you isn't it?

Loathing mouth WOW why so nasty? You don't like this discussion do you? It makes you angry because deep down inside you know it's true.

See how angry small time capitalists get? Socialism scares them to death because they don't want to share, they want to be the big Man, the big M.A.N.

(warning offensive music and language, you have been warned, carry on comrade)