Scientists able to talk to and teach dolphins sentences - Dolphins share a universal language.

They hunt and kill for fun and they are prejudice against porpoises. They will rescue people from sharks, as well. Of course, they are capable of complex thought.

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They might be smart, but they still cant walk or drive. Id love to see a dolphin operate a 60 ton crane on a daily basis, but i know it wont happen.

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My dog understood whole sentences. He didn't mash them up in his little decoding centers because he always had a feeling what I wanted, or meant.. far from the analogy where dogs are like 1980's lab experiments and nothing else. That's not science. The same dog recognized himself in a mirror. He was very smart.

Guys you're only banking on the pleasant disposition of dolphins with humans. As far as dogs being incomparable that's' just not true. For example, dogs also react to dolphins like humans, when they aren't afraid.

It us humans that's aren't so different from the dogs and the dolphins.

Sorry to get off topic but I don't see any logic being given to the matter of dog cognition. That said, we are talking about specific biology and while some proof for intelligence is equally verified for dogs, dolphins are unique and this study yields incredible advances in what I perceive to be a general advancement of thought projecting thought.

There is a book that gets dolphins and 2012 both subjects together. Makes for interesting reading!

The Aquarians: 2012 - A New Era Begins

1945—After being blown off the deck of his ship by a horrific explosion, U.S. Naval officer Vern Becket is visited by what he can only assume is his guardian angel. Helplessly floating in the dark seas off the coast of Japan, Vern learns that he has a mission—one that he won’t accomplish for almost sixty years.

2004—A pioneer in the study of dolphin echolocation, Dr. Troy Wallace is convinced that he is on the verge of an incredible scientific breakthrough. Recent research suggests that dolphins may send three-dimensional sonograms to each other, and Dr. Wallace hopes to be the first to decode and view these images.

Rebecca Larson, a dolphin behaviorist at SeaWorld in San Diego, California, is assisting Dr. Wallace in his research. She believes that dolphins—a species that has thrived on Earth for more than forty million years—may offer critical insights into the societal structure, behavior, and future of mankind.

As handsome as he is shallow, southern California television celebrity Ryan Ericson is thrust into an ever-expanding mystery of coincidence and discovery. And he is about to learn how his professional involvement with Vern, Dr. Wallace, and Rebecca relates to dolphins, an ancient Mayan prophecy, and the very fate of humanity.

It's about time computers caught up with dolphins.

Dolphins have a matricentric group mind. They are protective of their pod, and as long as the female of the pod is respected, the others have a foundation for communicating with other pods and individuals, and traveling around. They regard humans as "dry dolphins" if the computers that the scientists are using can understand that.

I can't wait until they hook up a dolphin to the Internet, and let it ask the humans/dry dolphins what life is like on land. The wild ones can see from the water, the shoreline, the life people live.

I hope this doesn't affect the dolphin population at large in an adverse way. Race relations suddenly got real.

Hey Guys,

I actually registered to reply to this topic, which is great because I've been on ATS for at least 2 hours everday since 2008. I don't know why I never registered, but now that I did I have a feeling I'm going to spend at least twice the time on here reading and participating in the seemingly endless awesome topics on ATS (hands down favorite site in existence)

So I read this article and I immediately remembered hearing something a long way back about Iran purchasing Military-Trained Dolphins from their Russian caretaker whom kept them after the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. A little digging and sure enough, I found the article from BBC dating to March, 2000.

Dolphins trained to kill for the Soviet navy have been sold to Iran - but what they will do in the Persian Gulf is a mystery. Dolphins and other aquatic mammals were trained by Russian experts to attack warships and enemy frogmen, but when funding for the project ceased, many were moved to a private dolphinarium to perform for tourists. Their chief trainer, both in military and civilian life, was Boris Zhurid, who began his career as a submariner before graduating from a medical academy.

Starving animals

Earlier this month he sold the entire collection to Iran, because he could no longer afford to feed it.
"If I were a sadist then I could have remained in Sevastopol," Mr Zhurid told the Russian newspaper, Komsomolskaya Pravda. "But I cannot bear to see my animals starve ... We're out of medicine, which costs thousands of dollars, and have no more fish or food supplements."

Now I feel Zhurid's plight, as if I owned a such a large number of dolphins, sea lions, seals, etc, I would not be able to bear watching them starve or become ill from lack of proper care. However, the next part of the article disturbs me the most and makes me wonder if we figure out how to speak to them well enough, it could equate to some bad things happening:

Four of the dolphins and the white whale underwent training with Mr Zhurid at a Pacific naval base, before being transferred to Crimea in 1991.

The animals were trained to attack enemy frogmen with harpoons attached to their backs, or to drag them to the surface to be taken into captivity.

They could also undertake kamikaze strikes against enemy shipping carrying mines that would explode a ship on contact with its hull.

The dolphins could allegedly distinguish foreign and Soviet submarines by the sound of their propeller.

According to research by the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society, numerous ex-Soviet military dolphins have been sold to aquariums around the world.

Many have been kept in poor conditions on arrival, and others have died en route.

But Mr Zhurid said Iran had built a new oceanarium to his specification, and that he would be continuing his scientific research there.

SOURCE:news.bbc.co.uk...

Read that last sentence one more time. But Mr Zhurid said Iran had built a new oceanarium to his specification, and that he would be continuing his scientific research there. Now that is very unsettling. This happened almost 12 years ago to the T, so I wonder how sophisticated the program must be now. Interesting stuff...

reply to post by Brenidi14


At the risk of boiling this down to an existential debate, dogs and cats learn the same way dolphins learn, and the same way as humans learn. Same thing, teachability. Stuff goes in, stuff gets processed, stuff goes out.

But dolphins have no toes! So there! And they have a hole in their head! When was the last time you could hold an intelligent conversation with a hole in your head? I know it's very hard for me, and my dog, and my cat.

And you can't put them in a little roller stroller and parade them around like a toy. Humans try with giant aquariums, but it's not the same. A dolphin with a computer, omygod, it's a leap for science!

Originally posted by Brenidi14

Originally posted by camaro68ss
My dog and cat understand when i talk to them. Sit, stay, treat....you want to go for a walk.....whats different here?

The level of ignorance in your comment is beyond incredible. First of all, common household pets such as dogs and cats are only limited to react to stimulus by conditioning them through exercise/training. THEY DO NOT understand YOUR language.You and them, can't communicate. In fact, you may pronounce different words with the same connotation and they'll be tricked to react the same way as if you were using the word you believe they understand.

If you ring a bell every time you serve your dog food, he will be conditioned to begin salivating in his mouth every time the bell rings, EVEN if there's NO FOOD.

Anyway, just educate yourself before posting non-sense. That's just delusional...

EDIT: Also just so you know the difference between dog and dolphins. Scientifically proven, the dog brain is only as that of a three year old baby. A dolphin mind is more complex confirm studies.

edit on 30-1-2012 by Brenidi14 because: (no reason given)

The ignorance in your response tells me you have not really owned a dog, and that you may have that 'misconception' that humans are so much above the rest of the creatures of this earth. Many animals have intelligence that ranks higher than your comments give them credit for. Dogs DO learn english phrases and words and the meaning, not just some vocalization that makes them reflex. Let me tell you a story and this is onle one example.

I owned one dog for 14 years and this dog was very familiar with me travelling. I left my dog with a friend and her teenage daughter for a trip of 5 days.
They told me that every day when the dog went outside, she would simply walk to the end of the porch to do her business. But, on the last day, every time they let the dog out, she would walk to the end of the sidewalk and look down the road. When I picked my dog up later that evening they swore the dog KNEW I was coming home that day. I simply said 'you must have told her'. They said no. I asked further - did you discuss my return? She said yes, her daughter asked if I was coming for my dog today, and she responded that he would be here this evening. My conclusion to her - well then you DID tell her, because she heard your conversation and knew it was about me coming home! This dog would (like the collie noted earlier) retreve toys by name, and we couldn't talk about anything that would get her excited or upset around her. I swear, we tried spelling, and she would learn the meanings of the spelled words!

Now maybe the dog is not at the level of intelligence as the dolphin, but the dog is surely above the level of intelligence that most Pavlov believers give them. And even a three-year old understands a lot of English. I bet if you lived your entire life in a cage getting prodded and poked you would be pretty stupid and only respond to food stimuli too, as it is the ONLY thing you would ever have to look forward to. Too late to test now, you're out in the free world, so we will never know if you are smarter than a dog (just saying).

Scientifically proven means squat and should mean nothing more, as science can only prove what they test. If you lock dogs in cages and probe them constantly, I can't see how you could prove ANY intelligence. You have to understand their language and interactions, and they have to understand yours, and that kind of relationship wasn't being tested in the studies that give you the conclusions you espouse here. This post about dolphins should make that even MORE obvious, since we used to think the sounds of dolphins were no different than bats using sonar to see, and now we learn they tell the other dolphins what they are seeing with the sounds.

Yes if you ring a bell often enough, the dog will go to the door and wait for pizza. And soon, the dog will recognize you placing an order with Dominos and will go wait by the door 25 minutes later when she hears you say thin crust and pepperoni on the phone. Then your dog will learn to drag you a phone everytime the annoying Dominos commercial comes on (sad commentary on my diet - and my dog's diet - in my earlier years that my dog learned how to tell me to place an order for pizza).

Dolphin's send message to mankind for the first time.

haha, this is great, so long and thanks for all the fish!

Now we are screwing up the dolphins with our language....Wow!...and I am sure that their language is far more refined than ours is.

What we haven't screwed up we apparently have on our hit list.

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

Kill em all and let God sort them out!

Originally posted by camaro68ss
reply to post by Brenidi14

 

SORRY, remind me not to ask questions next time about topics. I guess im supposed to know all this already.

Dear, you did not ask a question lol what question did you ask?

Being able to copy and relay an image does not have to signify intelligence. Parrots are able to do the same for spoken words they overhear. Mimicry is simple and lots of animals can do it. When dolphins are able to create new, intelligible pictures and even art then that's something else. And to be able to create sequences of images that're more than their individual parts is even better.

Abstract thought is what humans have always thought separates them. I don't think it's unique to us, but I don't have proof that other animals have it., either. We usually just assume animals are genetic automatons. Research is showing they're not. But whether they can sit down with us and discuss meaningful things is a different matter. We know that dogs can understand spoken commands and seem to respond to and express their own emotions. But we're not going to sit down with a dog and talk Newtonian Physics. We're not going to turn to dogs for input on government policy. The intelligence they display, while obvious, has its limits. I have no reason to think that dolphins will be much different.

I would also think that holographic communication would consume a LOT of brain matter. This might also limit their intelligence, would it not? But it might also gain them an advantage, I don't know.

Yet where're the dolphin shelter complexes? Where're the dolphin centers of learning? Where're the dolphin weapons and tools? Where're the pictures drawn on coral and limestone? Where? Sure, they may have a complex form of language, but not storing their knowledge severely limits their ability to survive and spread what works across vast areas of ocean. All they got is talk 2.0. But it's not enough, in my view.

I hate being skeptical. I love animals. I can't even imagine dressing in camo and shooting a deer. It's just not in me. I only eat meat (or take b-12) rarely and because scientists tell me I must. My awareness that we kill billions of animals every year for food is a discouraging and demoralizing factoid. I'd love for us to have another reason not to eat the creatures we share the most in common with. I know that we must eat other lifeforms, but it's my hope that one day we can limit our hungers to much lower lifeforms than we're presently consuming. Something like Quorn. We're not far from lab-grown meat, in fact.

Some tell me that to eat an animal is a spiritual experience for them. That it ties them to nature on a fundamental level. They understand, as I do, that animals have been consuming animals for long ages ago. It's embedded in earth life like the stone to earth. It connects us to our origins in the caves and the ice sheets and the deep night. I understand that. But I have a very similar and deep "feeling", as you do, but it's in the other direction. I do not try to be this way to aggravate or irritate. I simply do as I feel is best and is representative of what I know. I cannot do otherwise without breaking the soul. I am who I am.

Similar life to us is all around us. We have only need to find life elsewhere to cement into peoples minds that we're part of a fabric woven into nature that spans the cosmos in many delicate colors.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Why so rude? Is it not better to educate?

How ironic, I actually did educate him in that very same post, taking my time to even post scientific facts.

I'm sorry you feel the need to support the making of false statements and I can't explain further because mods apparently don't like it. Have a nice day, dear.

Originally posted by lakesidepark
The ignorance in your response tells me you have not really owned a dog, and that you may have that 'misconception' that humans are so much above the rest of the creatures of this earth. Many animals have intelligence that ranks higher than your comments give them credit for. Dogs DO learn english phrases and words and the meaning, not just some vocalization that makes them reflex. Let me tell you a story and this is onle one example.

I owned one dog for 14 years and this dog was very familiar with me travelling. I left my dog with a friend and her teenage daughter for a trip of 5 days.
They told me that every day when the dog went outside, she would simply walk to the end of the porch to do her business. But, on the last day, every time they let the dog out, she would walk to the end of the sidewalk and look down the road. When I picked my dog up later that evening they swore the dog KNEW I was coming home that day. I simply said 'you must have told her'. They said no. I asked further - did you discuss my return? She said yes, her daughter asked if I was coming for my dog today, and she responded that he would be here this evening. My conclusion to her - well then you DID tell her, because she heard your conversation and knew it was about me coming home! This dog would (like the collie noted earlier) retreve toys by name, and we couldn't talk about anything that would get her excited or upset around her. I swear, we tried spelling, and she would learn the meanings of the spelled words!

Now maybe the dog is not at the level of intelligence as the dolphin, but the dog is surely above the level of intelligence that most Pavlov believers give them. And even a three-year old understands a lot of English. I bet if you lived your entire life in a cage getting prodded and poked you would be pretty stupid and only respond to food stimuli too, as it is the ONLY thing you would ever have to look forward to. Too late to test now, you're out in the free world, so we will never know if you are smarter than a dog (just saying).

Scientifically proven means squat and should mean nothing more, as science can only prove what they test. If you lock dogs in cages and probe them constantly, I can't see how you could prove ANY intelligence. You have to understand their language and interactions, and they have to understand yours, and that kind of relationship wasn't being tested in the studies that give you the conclusions you espouse here. This post about dolphins should make that even MORE obvious, since we used to think the sounds of dolphins were no different than bats using sonar to see, and now we learn they tell the other dolphins what they are seeing with the sounds.

Yes if you ring a bell often enough, the dog will go to the door and wait for pizza. And soon, the dog will recognize you placing an order with Dominos and will go wait by the door 25 minutes later when she hears you say thin crust and pepperoni on the phone. Then your dog will learn to drag you a phone everytime the annoying Dominos commercial comes on (sad commentary on my diet - and my dog's diet - in my earlier years that my dog learned how to tell me to place an order for pizza).

Actually I do have a very deep and personal relationship with my dog since years ago. I've made him do things no trainer had managed to do and we've done many things that only strength more the roots of our bond. I do believe your story, but please refrain from saying my post had "ignorance" in it, if it didn't...

Anyway, yes again, dogs only associate one thing with another. Pizza, owner name, food, etc... They can't understand language though as I already stated. Your dog may learn as well as a parrot a few sentences if you insist so much. But still, he won't and can't understand a word that comes from his mouth.

I've seen the effects of using words towards water, ice and even plants. Words can impact all of this! But I have never seen its impact on dogs... in a emotional/spiritual level... is it, that they don't have a soul or what? I know they seem to have feelings but no conscience...

Originally posted by mandroids
Keeper: ya want some fish, flipper?

Flipper: Naw, ya idiot, I want a whopper. now get going or i soak ya shorts.

I agree, now I think a re-evaluation of Flipper is needed. He might have been sexually harrassing people for christ sake!

After all, dolphins are known pervs

basically they see sonar the way we render it visible on a monitor then. One should be able to teach dolphin in the near future.

Once stable communication is available I would love to see if we can ask if there are any species that the dolphin kingdom has encountered in the seas that is far more intellectual than both humans and dolphins!!!