Your Views On 'Smacking' children.

To all the older boomers in here who say that kids today are undisciplined and whatnot....

The reason they are is because your kids refused to discipline them. That movement likely arose because of you, your belts across their bottoms, and your "wait until daddy gets home, you little monster" guilt and fear based upbringing that you graciously supplied them out of your undying love and endless patience.

As a teacher, I can tell which kids get hit at home. They're insecure, angry, and have a disproportionate fear of adults. They're also more likely to cheat on a test, 'cause the F brings the belt out. That's a quality life lesson I'm sure will serve them well.

There's a difference between "no boundaries" and "no hitting." If you can't set boundaries for your child without the back of your hand, simply put, you can't outsmart your child. I don't understand why someone would wear that as an emblem of pride.

reply to post by Jiggyfly

As a teacher, I can tell which kids get hit at home. They're insecure, angry, and have a disproportionate fear of adults. They're also more likely to cheat on a test, 'cause the F brings the belt out. That's a quality life lesson I'm sure will serve them well.

Sure you can. How do you know you are right?

My brother is also a teacher, and so is my sister-in-law, and her best friend, and they can also tell which kids don't have discipline at home, because those are the kids constantly not listening to the teacher, constantly smarting off, and constantly blaming someone else for their own inadequacies, and consequently they are the same ones spending a lot of time in the principles office.

My brother actually has parents come to him and ask him how to discipline their children. He teaches high school. It is outrageous! It is almost impossible to suddenly introduce discipline at high school age, they have already failed as parents! He asked one set of parents if they ever used corporeal punishment, and they said no. Then, the next day, they called the school and asked the front office what corporeal punishment was! Losers. No wonder they have a bad kid that is going to flunk out of high school and be a drain on society.

When I was a kid I was subjected to corporal punishment numerous times, until I reached the age of 12 or 13. The punishment was never severe. It was more of an irritating interruption of my life than a physical ordeal.

The fact of the matter is that having "time outs" and little explanations of right and wrong behavior are (no substitute for thrashing your kids when you are at the end of your rope) not always possible for weary exhausted parents or ones with willful children who refuse to take instruction.

An impatient parent is likely to take a short cut and rough the kid up.

The fact of the matter is that children can take a lot of lickings before they begin to be psychologically damaged by them. As long as the rough treatment is not injurious physically, most children will shrug it off and are actually toughened up by the experience.

The judicious use of corporal punishment will turn a brazen little crapper into a hardened hellion in time for the rigors of schoolyard life. As long as they keep their marks up, I see nothing wrong with that.

What is really truly injurious to the psyche of a child is some nitwit parent, physically restraining the child, while they pour the poisonous marmelade of their stupid parental wisdom into the "porches" of the child's defenseless ears, warping the mind within.

Fortunately the victims of such abuse have an antidote to hand, i.e., the hardened hellions in the class who will disabuse them of their wrong headed notions. By the end of high school there has been sufficient cross pollination of understandings that both kinds of children emerge fairly well balanced and wiser for the shocking experiences of encountering "the other".

I see nothing wrong with judicious corporal punishment, when there is no time or inclination to play "parent counsellor" to your child. As long as the parent isn't taking out other issues on the child and is not a sadist and is not excluding "sweet reason" from their repertoire of communication, there is probably no reason to fear corporal punishment.

Sometimes a quick whack on the butt is much kinder to the child than settling them down and forcing them to listen to yet another tiresome lecture from "Dr. Mummy Dearest, Ph.D."

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Onboard2

 

I'd rather my children mind me out of love and respect and not fear.

Either one is fine with me as long as they mind. Actually, why not all three? Why not love, and respect, and fear?

It's bad form to quote myself, but when I just re-read this it reminded me of some stuff from the Bible.

Doesn't God expect a person's Love, Respect, and Fear? If its good enough for God, shouldn't it be good enough for a parent?

1 Peter 2:17
Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Samual, Kings, Chronicles, Job, Psalms, and others!
The Quran has a similar Messages.

It seems Love, Respect, and Fear are not mutually exclusive, and in fact they lend themselves to good behavior in Two huge religious views.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

In my example, as we approach a crosswalk, I tell them to hold my hands (little kids 3-5 year olds), and I tell them to wait at the curb and I tell them to look both ways, etc., etc. BUT, if one tries to jerk their hand away, or takes off running in front of me, I grab them, smack their butts, and then give them a good lecture about minding, and about getting hurt or killed.

I am with you on two of three...I remember clear as day when I parked the car beside a busy road for a friends BBQ and my youngest, 4 years old at the time sprinted toward busy, speeding traffic going 75 mph just a couple of yards from the back bumper. Only a parent knows what super-human speeds we can conjure up in those moments and I grabbed her by both arms and had her up in the air in an instant by the time she reached the shoulder of the road. I don't know how I covered the 10 or so feet in what seemed a blink of an eye. It seemed the world was in slow motion except for me. The shock of how quickly grabbed her and had her up and into the air had her in instant tears, sobs and wide terrified eyes. I had to wait a good few minutes before talking to her, to let both me and her calm down. I can't see how spanking would have not made it worse, she was already terrified and understood by my behavior the gravity of the situation. She needed all of me in that moment. She needed Dad not dad hitting her. It took her a year to get over her fear of cars enough where she could walk down a neighborhood street without feeling anxiety. Natural consequences...in the moment...spanking is just mom or dad hitting you...at best fear with a measure of disconnect to the cause...at worst it puts distance between you and your child. Not condemning spankers et al. But the emotional harm/relationship harm outweighs the miniscule, questionable, statistically rebutted benefit IMO. More so when there are proven alternatives that don't involve risking damaging your relationship with your child or their emotional well being.

Spanking does NOT emotionally damage a child in any way. Beating them? Yes.
I think of it this way. A little discomfort gets their attention, and is designed to save them from larger, potentially life-threatening pain later.
It is all in the level and the intent. Kids are not morons. If you beat them about the head, YES, they may end up to be morons. Or deranged individuals.
Child abuse is often repeated by the kids in a vicious cycle, but the same rule applies to effective parenting. Don't ever try to steer a young parent away from the sort of effective parenting that they grew up with. That is precisely what our government does, and look at the result.
Use your own best judgement.
Also, occasionally losing your temper means you are HUMAN. If you make a mistake apologize to your kid. You will know if you made a mistake. Don't let others convince you that you have, when you know you have not.

reply to post by Indigo5


It doesn't sound like your example needed spanking. I agree with you 100%, but what if she had been laughing and giggling and thinking it was just a game? In that case, a swat or two in the heat of the moment might have gotten her to the emotional state that she needed to equate her actions with very bad consequences.

Of course every situation is unique, and nobody should go around spanking their kids for every little thing, and I don't think anyone would advocate that.

I once lost a customer when I was a young salesman at a tire store. This woman was trying to talk to me about tires while her 5 year old was ransacking the place and she didn't even notice. The other people in the lobby were gritting their teeth and trying hard not to beat the kid, and my showroom was becoming shambles, and I said something to her, and she turned around and said, "honey quit it," and then turned back to me and kept talking. The kid never even slowed down. SO, I said, "excuse me for a second." And, I took the kid by the hand, FIRMLY, and in my gruffest voice I said, "We're going to clean up the mess you've made." And I led the kid piece by piece to return everything to its proper place, and it took a good 5 or 10 minutes to do. When we were done, I walked the kid back to his mother and placed his hand in her hand. She looked dumbfounded and then she stormed out the door. The lobby cheered, and my boss came out and asked what happened, and I told him I lost a tire sale, but he understood, LOL! I didn't beat her kid, I might have beat my own for acting that way, but I know that my own kids know better, her kid will be trouble all through school, and he will probably have the privilege of becoming an inmate of the State eventually.

In my opinion, it is unacceptable to fail as a parent. The stakes are too high, and we owe it to our kids to be successful in their rearing. We should be ashamed of ourselves if we don't find some way to reach them and teach them right from wrong.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

In my opinion, it is unacceptable to fail as a parent. The stakes are too high, and we owe it to our kids to be successful in their rearing. We should be ashamed of ourselves if we don't find some way to reach them and teach them right from wrong.

And there we agree 100%. I also think that coddling children is an unnacceptable failure that we see too much of with todays parents....but I also strongly believe spanking is not the solution. Believe me, if I thought it did more good than harm I'd be all for it. In most circumstances our children will be here after we are gone, they are our contribution to the world and what we teach them, if they have kids, will span generations long after we are dust.

Whether it be spanking or coddling, these discussions are worth having because becoming a better parent is the same as becoming a better person. The stakes are exponentially raised when you start preparing a little man or woman to luanch into the world and represent your best effort long after you are gone.

Originally posted by blaastaaz
The way I see it.

If a child does not believe that a cigarette lighter in the car is hot.
*Do you explain it to them that it's hot?
A lecture is nothing more then a lecture. It proves little in the mind of a child................
They learn very quickly through spankings what is right and what is wrong,............

Sorry but you are wrong on this one. I taught both my children that the stove was hot and could hurt them without hitting them or causing them pain or allowing them to burn themselves. They were both under 1 year.

What did I do? Instead of using the "instant gratification" demand method of hitting, I used the "take a few extra minutes" technique of thinking of a way to teach them and followed through. I held a piece of paper over the stove and slowly moved it closer to the burner with them watching. When the paper burned I yelled HOT HOT OUCH OUCH DON'T TOUCH! I used my facial expression and body language to CONVEY to them that fire demands respect.

Neither one of my children had to be hit, neither one had to be hurt, neither one had to be put into fear of me hurting them or pain to learn that important lesson.

So, I made it work, how come other parents believe that the ONLY way to teach this lesson is to use pain by either letting the child get burned or hitting the child?

I certainly will never understand that concept. I figured out a way to teach my children without hurting them. I used something called my brain and thought of a way to teach them. Have I made mistakes as a parent? YOU BET! We all have! As soon as I realize I've screwed up, I "step up" and apologize to my children, I USE it as another teaching lesson for my children. I then work at not repeating the same mistake again.

What I've seen is that my children are more apt to quickly apologize for their mistakes and work towards not making the same mistake again. The apology they give is sincere instead of what I have seen of children who's parents "FORCE" an apology from their children. These children give snide apologies and insincere apologies and will quite often do the same thing over and over.

To me choosing to hit your child instead of thinking of ways to teach your child, is using what I believe to be the "instant gratification for the parent" style of parenting, and the "easy way out". Hitting is easy, taking the time to think of another way? Not always so easy, takes time and does not involve instant gratification for the parent.

As their parent, I am supposed to be trustworthy. How many of you trust people who hurt you on purpose?

Do you truly trust that the person who hits you has your best interest at heart?

And YES... if you hit your child, you are doing so with the direct purpose of causing pain and the instant gratification of receiving compliance through force of pain.

Hitting to ME seems to teach "instant gratification" through force.

Let's please learn how to teach our children in ways which do not involve the violence of hitting another person.

Harm None
Peace

Children should never be smacked but should instead be sat down and talked to like their are intelligent enough to understand what and why their actions have resulted in the "Talk Down"

I can assure you that those who smack their children instead of talkign to them about what has happened has a severe problem in explaining what has happened and become frustrated thus causing them to use pain and suffering to associate what was done wrong.

The child will remember what they did wrong everytime they encounter a situation where the flashback results in remembering being smacked. Every time this occurs causes the child to become more fearful of doing something wrong until they come to a point of everything being wrong and to avoid being smacked they simply do nothing at all.

Originally posted by amazed

What did I do? Instead of using the "instant gratification" demand method of hitting, I used the "take a few extra minutes" technique of thinking of a way to teach them and followed through. I held a piece of paper over the stove and slowly moved it closer to the burner with them watching. When the paper burned I yelled HOT HOT OUCH OUCH DON'T TOUCH! I used my facial expression and body language to CONVEY to them that fire demands respect.

Neither one of my children had to be hit, neither one had to be hurt, neither one had to be put into fear of me hurting them or pain to learn that important lesson.

So, I made it work, how come other parents believe that the ONLY way to teach this lesson is to use pain by either letting the child get burned or hitting the child?

I certainly will never understand that concept. I figured out a way to teach my children without hurting them. I used something called my brain and thought of a way to teach them. Have I made mistakes as a parent? YOU BET! We all have! As soon as I realize I've screwed up, I "step up" and apologize to my children, I USE it as another teaching lesson for my children. I then work at not repeating the same mistake again.

My highlighting. Ok lets face the fact that not all parents are equally as smart as you are concerning the "how to" aspect. Should all those parents take a course in how to parent? Should it be governmentalized? There are those who have had no education, work 15 hours a day and simply don't have the resources to learn these things. Should they be disallowed having children. Since paddling your kid IS a viable option to learn kids stuff, and that children are different and respond differently to different teaching methods, who is anyone to tell others how they should raise their kids?
There is no right or wrong, there are just different consequences for different paths for different people(kids/adults)

Actually I'm thinking: Does this boil down to the question:

Is violence wrong?

I see nothing wrong with smacking my child if hes doing something naughty, a slap on the back of the hand is nothing compared to what i got when i was a kid. I wasnt beaten but i sure didnt like it when my dad slapped the back of my legs or my arse. Sometimes even warni g them there going to get a smack is enough to stop them being naughty.

reply to post by scratchmane

Should all those parents take a course in how to parent?

My wife took a parenting course when our first son was born, and it was so dam ridiculous that she, and two of the other fathers walked out halfway through the second meeting.

Most parents instinctively know what to do, and what not to do, and when they have done too much, or too little, and how to make amends if need be.

I think the problem arises when parents start taking too much outside advice from theorists that have no real world experience, or theorists that have bad kids of their own, but the PhD by their name is somehow more important than the fact that their kid is 35 years old, and living at home or in jail.

My parents gave me and my brother spankings when we deserved it, which wasn't often. Beyond a certain age of course they threatened other things like no going outside to play. (Yes back when I was a kid we played outside)

Actually the two of us were very well behaved.

Both my brother and I have a very good relationship with our parents, we see them once a week.

I have witnessed up close and personal a parent that doesn't discipline, physical or otherwise. Empty threats and promises of rewards for stopping bad behavior. The result? Almost no respect for the parents from the child. The entire family revolves around the wants and desires of the child.

God that child's future spouse is gonna just love what those parents have done.

reply to post by getreadyalready

The story about the kid in the tire store highlights a big problem with many parents, and can save the parent from having to spank the kid.
From an early age, the kid has to respect you and your instructions. If you say, turn off the television and go to bed, you only say it once. If the kid doesn't do it, you go and "follow up" to insure that your orders are followed. But, ONLY make the order IF you are serious, no wishy washy, oh okay, 15 more minutes...or worse yet, allow them to ignore you altogether.
I never had to spank my kids after they were about two years old. So, many of these arguments against spanking have merit only because the parents have already failed. The spanking can be a sign of frustration.
So, a lot is taken out of context. Spanking CAN be a sign of failure.
This is not directed to you, you just reminded me of an important parenting tip.
Too bad people can't actually meet the kids to see who's story has merit and who hasn't actually raised a kid or two.

Here's a better idea. How about the lot of you that try to dictate how "I" raise my children mind your own business and keep to your own. I'll raise my children how I see fit, not how YOU see fit nor how the GOVERNMENT sees fit.

While you may be entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to my own which is again... mind your own business.

I agree 100% it is a Fathers right to smack the ass of his children, especially the boys.

I have never had a daughter, so I can't speak there but I smacked the ass of both my boys when they were young and with great results.

I didn't blacken their eyes, I didn't leave welts on their body, no bones were ever broken and blood was never shed.

Tears happened on most occasions as did discipline, consequences and boundaries and a new understanding for listening to your father.

My kids both grew up with out problems acting out, lying, stealing, drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, teen pregnancy, truancy or whatever hell kids get into these days.

Why? Because when they were toddlers I taught them right from wrong what the social and personal and familial boundaries are in life and society are. Part of that was the spanking they got when they stepped out of line. There were not many instances as each one was done out of tough love, not common moments of frustration and anger. That is the difference between abuse and parenting.

Keep in mind this was situation and child appropriate. I wasn't spanking my 13 year old sons. Long before then they were intelligent enough to talk out their problems with me. We had build a relationship of trust and understanding. They knew and now know what is expected of them to be good people, to do the right things for the right reasons and accept the responsibility and consequences of their actions.

It worked for me and my father, and it worked for me and my children.

Originally posted by Equ1nox
anyone who uses any form of hitting/smacking should be ashamed of themselves, i despair reading comments saying that it's ok. It just shows a complete lack of intelligence, whoever hits their children should be hit themselves, see how they like it.

Most of us who advocate spanking - SPANKING, not BEATING, and there IS a difference, and whoever can not tell this difference needs their head checked - were spanked ourselves as children. Do we resent our parents? No, not in the slightest. Are we emotionally traumatised? Not a bit! Heck, we are ADVOCATING the same kind of punishment that was used on us because we know that in some cases it works wonders.

What you guys are equating this to is physical abuse and it is not the same thing. It just simply isn't and frankly it is scary that the majority of the anti-spanking group can not differentiate between spanking and beating.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


I agree 100%. I said earlier, I don't expect to have to spank my kids any more. They are 5 and 4 years old, and they very rarely get in trouble, and when they do get in trouble now, it is more effective to take away the TV, or the bicycles, or threaten to not let them go to karate. In fact, the karate teacher is a huge ally. They get a red stripe, once per week if they are good at school and at home. Only 1 time has one of my boys gotten in trouble at school and he didn't get the red stripe, and every day since then he runs to the car saying, "I was good at school today Dada!"

Using the spankings when they are too young to reason with is very effective, and it negates the need for spankings later on in life.

Perhaps all those who are anti-spanking are thinking of older aged children?