I Was Arrested At Occupy Oakland Yesterday

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by XPLodER

 

You obviously don't get it. Capitalism is the force that made America Free and the greatest nation on earth, the reason why people from communist nations flee to it, in hope for a better life.

Occupy is trying to dismantle capitalism. Yes those evil capitalists with their better way of life. Maybe their is something to it?

This post sounds like trolling, but in case it isn't...

The only problem with the theory that Capitalism is awesome, is that the number of people who it is awesome for is getting smaller by the minute, while everyone else is having major difficulty staying off the street, and avoiding starving. You might be one of those individuals who feels that as long as you're ok, then screw everyone else; but some of the rest of us also realise that we really live in an interdependent society. The more other people around us who end up on the street, the more likely it is, that we ourselves will end up there as well.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
A question for you occupy members, where are you getting your shields from?

I have heard that there is some seed money to be used by the Occupy movement, around 11 million.

links to support your WILD claims?




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As to the capitalism is the route of all evil - what we have today isn't capitalism, it is a marriage between government and big corporate world.

edit on 29-1-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

what you are describing is fashism
a marrige of corperate and state actors
xploder

I don't have links, I actually talk to people (and you know - rumors)....something has to be written down for me to ask a question? Take it as a load of baloney if you want, but I heard about this 11 million fund and I am asking the question.

reply to post by petrus4

This post sounds like trolling, but in case it isn't...

The only problem with the theory that Capitalism is awesome, is that the number of people who it is awesome for is getting smaller by the minute, while everyone else is having major difficulty staying off the street, and avoiding starving. You might be one of those individuals who feels that as long as you're ok, then screw everyone else; but some of the rest of us also realise that we really live in an interdependent society. The more other people around us who end up on the street, the more likely it is, that we ourselves will end up there as well.

thank you for taking the time to explain that,
but i think his time is not for debate,

it is only through unity that the peoples standard of living will increase.
star 4 u

xploder

reply to post by MemoryShock


The video looks a lot like the egypt protests save the fact that in those they used live rounds. The problem here is that the protestors looked prepared for a fight and that just invites the kind of treatment they got from the police.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
I don't have links, I actually talk to people (and you know - rumors?)....something has to be written down for me to ask a question?

edit on 29-1-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

well as ALL finacial details and transactions from ALL occupies from ALL over the world HAS TO publish there accounts on the net for all to see,
if you give me more details i will show you the proof that your claim is just that,

an unfounded claim

details and i will show you receipts for the week month or to date.

xploder

Originally posted by k1k1to
reply to post by MemoryShock

 

the occupy movement is still going on? i thought it ended a couple of weeks ago...whats the point really?...it never accomplished anything, and just proved that kids now-a-days are lazy and dont want a job that requires hard work and a little elbow grease...

Lazy? These people have jobs. They're protesting because they're having their rights stepped on so the top leaders get more money to wipe their bums with. I protest, petition, and post flyers and I have a job. Oh, and I'm a "kid".

reply to post by Avalessa


To back up your point about the protestors actually being employed heres a pretty good link with some actual data: www.washingtonsblog.com...

I believe it stats that the employment rate of occupy protestors is at about 85%.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
As to the capitalism is the route of all evil - what we have today isn't capitalism, it is a marriage between government and big corporate world.

We sure do have capitalism. Capitalism is 'the private ownership of the means of production'. The big corporate world is a result of capitalism. Incorporating is just another way for capitalists to protect their capital.

A marriage between capitalist corporations and government is fascism.

reply to post by XPLodER


Now the problem with capitalism is that there are many different types of it. herein lies the problem.

Types of capitalism
Mercantilism

A nationalist form of early capitalism where national business interests are tied to state interests, and consequently, the state apparatus is utilized to advance national business interests abroad. Mercantilism holds that the wealth of a nation is increased through a positive balance of trade with other nations.

Free-market capitalism

Free market capitalism consists of a free-price system where supply and demand are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by the government. Productive enterprises are privately owned, and the role of the state is limited to protecting property rights.

Social market economy

A social market economy is a nominally free-market system where government intervention in price formation is kept to a minimum but the state provides significant social security, unemployment benefits and recognition of labour rights through national collective bargaining laws. The social market is based on private ownership of businesses.

State capitalism

State capitalism consists of state ownership of the means of production within a state. Capitalism is the physical work process by which wealth is created in excess of the quantity consumed in the production of it, regardless of whether that process is operated by private individuals and companies or by the government. The debate between proponents of private versus state capitalism is centered around questions of managerial efficacy, productive efficiency, and fairest in the distribution of the wealth created.

Corporate capitalism

Corporate capitalism is a free or mixed market characterized by the dominance of hierarchical, bureaucratic corporations, which are legally required to pursue profit. State monopoly capitalism refers to a form of corporate capitalism where the state is used to benefit, protect from competition and promote the interests of dominant or established corporations.

Mixed economy

A largely market-based economy consisting of both public ownership and private ownership of the means of production. Most capitalist economies are defined as "mixed economies" to some degree[citation needed] although the balance between the public and private sectors may vary.


Clearly most on this site have a problem with corporate capitalism something that our governemnt allows to run rampate this day and age. So before you just broadly generalize a subject maybe you should research it bit more.

reply to post by NoJoker13


thank you for the information on capitalism
i am well read on the ideas and systems used to control nation states,
i am NOT anti capitalist,

i am against the pretence of capitalism while a state actor picks winners and losers with polocy decitions,
in the interests of the 1 %

xploder

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by XPLodER

 

You obviously don't get it. Capitalism is the force that made America Free and the greatest nation on earth, the reason why people from communist nations flee to it, in hope for a better life.

But those so-called communists countries were not communist.

My purpose is to compare Communism with its application in Soviet Russia, but on closer examination I find it an impossible task. As a matter of fact, there is no Communism in the U.S.S.R. Not a single Communist principle, not a single item of its teaching is being applied by the Communist party there. Emma Goldman, anarcho-communist.

There Is No Communism in Russia

Occupy is trying to dismantle capitalism. Yes those evil capitalists with their better way of life. Maybe their is something to it?

Yes that much is true. Capitalists have a 'better way of life' because they get wealthy from exploiting labour. The profit they make to have a better way of life could be OURS. We could all have a better way of life.

Capitalism is exploitation because workers have to produce more than they are paid for in order for the capitalist to make profit. Profits are raised by creating artificial conditions of scarcity, including 'jobs'. If the workers owned the means of production themselves they would all share in that profit, a more fair distribution of wealth that we all help to create. We already produce enough for us all to be happy.

Technological capacity to produce enough to satisfy everyone's needs already exists globally and has done so for many decades. Yet needs continue to remain unmet on a massive scale. Why? Quite simply because scarcity is a functional requirement of capitalism itself.

www.worldsocialism.org...

Artificial scarcity in a world of overproduction: an ecape that isn't

reply to post by NoJoker13


There is only one form of capitalism, that being the private ownership of the means of production. Anything else is just different way to implement that.

The term was coined by the left to mean the system that replaced feudalism, when the laws changed that allowed private owners to sell land and deny 'the commoners' (us, 'the people' is not really us, but 'them') it's use. This forced people into 'jobs', instead of being self sufficient living off the land. Those jobs created wealth for the private owners, but created poverty for the commoners. No land and no job means you're screwed. This is what lead to welfare etc..

Just like socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, and there are different ways to implement that such as Marxism, libertarian socialism, communism.

Private ownership of the resources we need for our survival is the problem with capitalism that socialists appose, not money, not markets, not making profit (as long it is fairly distributed).

Well maybe if you occupiers stopped urinating in the streets and throwing your crap everywhere, incidents like this could be avoidable. Do you want a handout? From who? Lost movement.

Originally posted by k1k1to
reply to post by MemoryShock

 

the occupy movement is still going on? i thought it ended a couple of weeks ago...whats the point really?...it never accomplished anything, and just proved that kids now-a-days are lazy and dont want a job that requires hard work and a little elbow grease...

There are still people who think this country is on the right track? I thought people would've woken up ages ago.. but I see there a sheep still grazing. They'll never realize how fu&*ed up their gonna be, they won't be prepared when TSHTF. Just proves that some adults who think kids are doing pointless things have already forsaken themselves and don't want better for others.

It's cool, you and all of those who starred you can continue grazing.

reply to post by petrus4

Occupy needs to become an organisation with a proven, widely held reputation of assisting the homeless and disadvantaged. You don't have that yet; and the authorities can exploit the fact that you don't, with people who don't know better. The goal needs to be the moral high ground; not seeking confrontations with the police. You might win those long term, in terms of public opinion; but you won't win them on a per-engagement basis, and they will also seriously compromise the organisation's long term stamina, if its' most valuable people are being thrown in jail.

If I could star this a thousand times I would. Right on the money.

Originally posted by schuyler
Another "peaceful protest."

Mayor Jean Quan was among those inspecting damage caused after dozens of people broke into City Hall on Saturday, smashing glass display cases, spray-painting graffiti, and burning an American flag.

That break-in culminated a day of clashes between protesters and police. Interim Police Chief Howard Jordan said nearly 400 people were arrested on charges ranging from failure to disperse and vandalism. At least three officers and one protester were injured.

Saturday's events began late Saturday morning, when a group assembled outside City Hall and marched through the streets, disrupting traffic as they threatened to take over the vacant Henry Kaiser Convention Center.

The protesters then walked to the convention center, where some started tearing down perimeter fencing and "destroying construction equipment" shortly before 3 p.m., police said.

Police said they issued a dispersal order and used smoke and tear gas after some protesters pelted them with bottles, rocks, burning flares and other objects.

Quan said that at one point, many protesters forced their way into City Hall, where they burned flags, broke an electrical box and damaged several art structures, including a recycled art exhibit created by children.

Source

I know. It was another brutal police response against peaceful protesters who just happened to cause tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage.

Thanks for posting this.

"Peaceful" my ass. Funny how those protesting and joining this Occupy bandwagon all claim it's peaceful and the cops attacked first when the truth is the other way round every single time.

Originally posted by COconspiracyguy
Very interesting account. Thanks for taking the time to share it...

As we slip down the slippery slope of losing what sets America apart
from the rest of the world, ie the Constitution, keep these word in mind.

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If we lose this, we go back 200 yrs, and all those lives and blood given in the name of freedom will be forever lost...

Something worth fighting for, in my opinion...

Problem is an Occupy Protest is rarely a "peaceable" event.

They really should study and copy a TEA Party Protest. They were very effective and they actually cleaned up after themselves.

reply to post by MemoryShock


People forget to mention the fact that their is a difference between a peaceful protest and a legal one.

Just because a protest is 'peaceful' doesn't mean that it is legal.

Sure you will mention the Constitution - but the constitution also says we can bear arms (or something to that matter). So can just anyone get a gun and carry it around - no. There are legal paperwork that you must complete before you can. Do we want a Felon to carry around a gun - heck no.

As for the peaceful protesters - next time do the paperwork for your assembly. If the city/state denies the forms without just cause - then, and only then, should you assemble the way you did -but all the while protesting the city/state's refusal to allow you to be there. If the city/state allows it - the group doing the paperwork needs to be prepared to pay the extra fines that may come with it (police overtime, etc..). ...didn't the TEA party people do this the proper way?

Laws are in place for a valid reason. You break them, expect to be punished. I wouldn't want an armed felon walking around without legal right, nor would I want a group of skin heads blocking the city's main streets the same.

Obey the written law and if you are wronged, then you have a case. Otherwise, you are just like a criminal that is doing nothing but interfering with traffic.

But no matter the law - I believe in your cause. The Occupy folk just need to be more smart about it. They don't file the proper paperwork because they dont want to be held accountable...which is another American flaw no-a-days.

Good luck.

Occupy is not exactly black and white; people see these protesters commit wrongful acts and they demonize them as if they are hellbent on destroying America. What people need to understand is that a peaceful protest is a peaceful protest, and a violent/destructive protest is a violent/destructive one. Unfortunately, when our police respond to peaceful forms of protest with tear gas, flashbangs, batons, and rubber bullets, it makes violent protest a more desirable option.

As for the burning of the flag in city hall; it symbolizes disgust with the government, which people have every right to have considering congress is at an 11% approval rating. These people view the government as having failed them; they attempt to protest peacefully and they are met with violence; they take more drastic measures and suddenly they are the bad guys?

Disgusting acts have happened on both sides of the front; I believe the police are more at fault than the protesters are, though. By responding violently to peaceful forms of protest, they bait protesters to resorting to more violent means. This doesn't make the violent protesters any less responsible for their actions, however, it does shed some light as to where the blame really lies.