This is why the occupy movement MUST BE STOPPED!!!

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by PhantomLimb
You had family die for a flag? Yeesh. I can't imagine what they would do for money.

edit on 1/30/2012 by PhantomLimb because: (no reason given)

I have, and so have millions
of other Americans.
Of course a measly
worm can't imagine
fighting in a war protecting
their country it is unfathomable
for a dog to think about brain surgery.

There haven't been any wars to protect this country since WWII. All of the rest have been based on securing oil and other interests that have nothing to do with the safety of the American people.

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Foul BEHAVIOR from occupy

Occupy protesters broke into Oakland's City Hall and a YMCA Saturday night, after a day of demonstrations that led to several clashes Source: The Bay Citizen (s.tt...)

www.baycitizen.org...
Disgusting BEHAVIOR OCCUPY

The picture speaks for itself really.
Breaking into a YMCA>? I can see CITY HALL.
Why screw up the YMCA? THAT IS
NOT ACCEPTABLE. This is not just
a few kid's throwing rocks anymore.

I see them burning the flag of maritime law and that is not the flag of the United States and the constitution it stands for.
Maybe they are going to far, but, it is all a farce anyway, they are controlled opposition a movement full of the unthinking, uncaring, easy to lead super sheep that think they are doing something for themselves.
A bunch of political tools, look at the russian revolution to see these kinds of groups in action in history.

reply to post by PhantomLimb


Who represented us during the bailouts? The officials we elected into office! We have elected representation in office. They don't have to ask your or my permission to act on legislation, but must use their best judgement. That's the key when voting, looking for someone we think has our best interests and judgement. If they don't, then we find Someone else, that's our Republic.

This is far from "no taxation without representation." we have elected representation! If you don't like it, find a candidate you do like and work on their campaign, vote for someone new. Destruction of any property just costs the taxpayers and property owners money.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

Um. . . how is the YMCA part of the 1%?

This is a poor reflection on their movement.

They broke into it (or rather stormed into) because the cops used a kettling tactic to pin + herd up all the protesters. You should read or listen to what is actually happening before making assumptions, same for the op.

As for the OP's opening post. Whether it is a minority or not that is causing violence, peaceful protest does nothing in terms of change and it's already gotten to the point where alot of people have noticed the government is doing absolutely nothing to change the mess that is america.

Americans burning the flag is not a statement of anti-americanism or whatever "anti" cause statement you try to pin on it. The fact is this people are fed up with the way their county is treating them. Anyone with their eyes open can see the flag is being burnt because these people are trying to get across the message that america is no longer what it used to be.

America is dead. Those who try to pin the patriotic act and think their government is doing everything perfectly are part of the on-going reason of why america is falling.

It doesn't take an expert to look around and see that alot of people all over the world are getting fed up with war-drumming, propaganda, and negligence towards the lower/middle class of americans. It's not just the rest of the world that can see this, it is also the americans themselves, and the occupy movement is a good start for change.

Whether you like it or not, these people are fighting for your freedom and future of america.

As it is now, there is currently no freedom in america as the country is run by pigs (the kind that guzzles everything up and leaves behind nothing for others).

Originally posted by InsideYourMind
Americans burning the flag is not a statement of anti-americanism or whatever "anti" cause statement you try to pin on it. The fact is this people are fed up with the way their county is treating them. Anyone with their eyes open can see the flag is being burnt because these people are trying to get across the message that america is no longer what it used to be.

...

It doesn't take an expert to look around and see that alot of people all over the world are getting fed up with war-drumming, propaganda, and negligence towards the lower/middle class of americans. It's not just the rest of the world that can see this, it is also the americans themselves, and the occupy movement is a good start for change.

Whether you like it or not, these people are fighting for your freedom and future of america.

As it is now, there is currently no freedom in america as the country is run by pigs (the kind that guzzles everything up and leaves behind nothing for others).

Very well said, 50 stars if I could. The Occupy movement is the best thing to come along in the US in quite a long time. If they choose to express their opinions by burning the cloth that represents the US, then people should take a look at what the representation has come to be: war for profit, ruin the environment for profit, ruin the bulk of the economy for profit, etc for profit, then so be it.

But as usual, there are the "freedom defenders" who will defend freedom at all costs, unless it is a freedom with which they disagree.

The Occupy movement may take a while to succeed... the Civil Rights movement had similar starts and hesitations as well.

This is why the Occupy movement must be supported!!!

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

Um. . . how is the YMCA part of the 1%?

This is a poor reflection on their movement.

These goons are just rioting to riot.
It is the cool in style thing to do.
THIS IS NOT THE 60'S or 70's
VIETNAM anti-war movement.

The Y was invaded for fun.
They wanted to go play some basketball
and stay in there and use it
for fun because they had so many people
they thought who can stop them.
ATTACKING THE YMCA these people are
SICK!

Sorry for the quote, had to do it.

Why is it that when people say that the people in black who do nasty things don't represent the movement, people like you say "Of course they do, they're a bunch of rioting morons!"

But then, when someone say "I watched the whole thing, they were trying to escape" you say something like "They wanted to go play some basketball?" Extremely racist, btw. There was nothing to insinuate basektball other than the fact that you had already characterized them as minorities. Did they bust open the vending machine for some purple drank too?

In the first case, you're calling someone out for saying something unverifiable, and stating that unless we know for sure that the opposite is true, we have to accept them as part of the movement that allows them to act in such a fashion. In the second, someone gives you the context that you called out the first poster for not supplying (indirectly, of course, since we can't expect you to be forthcoming with your argument, just your hyperbole) you simply ignore it and respond with racist, inflammatory, unverifiable crap.

People who vandalized the Y should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That eliminated a service, temporarily, for people who need it. I have no respect for them. Your statements, however, are dishonest and racist. Your argument is every bit as moronic as the people you're condemning.

reply to post by InsideYourMind


Really? Peaceful protest doesn't work? What about Ghandi or Rosa Parks? Peaceful protest is very effective when you have an actual violation to protest. None of these OWSers are fighting for me, they are fighting for themselves. They can't even come to a consensus about what they are for or against!

I'm throwing the BS Flag, Peaceful protest has worked in the past and can work in the future but only if all are on the same page and all are willing to truly sacrifice.

Ghandi or Rosa Parks.......no problem with that fact , but we are in an all together different vortex of government from them days , there is so much at stake for the nefarious elite , peaceful protest , while a great thing to behold , will not I'm afraid cut it , with the 1% mindset, they don't care who get's trampled under foot , all they care about is keeping order , the order they are accustomed to , something will give at some point , Oakland is showing signs of it now , they will false flag situations against people so they can use all the toys they have to quell the people down.

Originally posted by Jiggyfly
Why is it that when people say that the people in black who do nasty things don't represent the movement, people like you say "Of course they do, they're a bunch of rioting morons!"

But then, when someone say "I watched the whole thing, they were trying to escape" you say something like "They wanted to go play some basketball?"

For the simple reason that the Occupy movement has tapped a real, serious problem with the social contract in the US today, and the apologists for the status quo are frightened.

They need to marginalize the Occupy movement, try to build the false picture of them as nothing but a bunch of loafers and deadbeats who want everything given to them for free, and are interested in nothing but dope, sex and busting stuff up.

All of which is pure BS, of course... the Occupy movement is bringing a major problem to the surface and forcing attention to be paid to it.

And the apologists and supporters of the current flagrantly imbalanced system are running scared.

After watching the Occupy movement, and the reaction to it, I put it in the same bucket as Obama - the Occupy movement is by no means perfect, but they are raising an important topic, which has the Status Quo worried. And about 99.9% of the claims of bad behavior on the part of the Occupy movement are false or grossly exaggerated. And the detractors of the Occupy movement are guilty of far worse lies and oppression (re: behavior of the hired goons, er, uh, I mean, "police") than is the movement itself.

It's largely a matter of propaganda... and the Defenders of The (Rotten) Status Quo are masters at propaganda.

Originally posted by The X
they think they are doing something for themselves.
A bunch of political tools, look at the russian revolution to see these kinds of groups in action in history.

Post is just brilliant, wish I could give 10 stars.
That is all this is. Political tools being
used by the puppet masters to stir things
up. Russian Revolution was no coincident.
These hoodlums breaking into a YMCA
and city hall and doing what they are doing
the support is going to go limp like a noodle.

No one is going to support a bunch of retards
tearing peoples stuff up, costing the tax payers
MORE MONEY!!

Occupy people need to know who they are keeping company
with, which most do, they are all in on getting *in on the fun*
of rioting and EFFIN things up yaaahoooo..

NO WERE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT!

Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by InsideYourMind

 

Really? Peaceful protest doesn't work? What about Ghandi or Rosa Parks? Peaceful protest is very effective when you have an actual violation to protest. None of these OWSers are fighting for me, they are fighting for themselves. They can't even come to a consensus about what they are for or against!

If a peaceful protest is ignored it is inevitible that it will turn violent.

I'm throwing the BS Flag, Peaceful protest has worked in the past and can work in the future but only if all are on the same page and all are willing to truly sacrifice.

Everybody isn't on the same page though are they. The people at the top only manage to stay were they are by making everyone else suffer. It's called corporate greed, the fundamental root of capitalism.

Without greed, capitalism cease's to exist. My point here is that capitalist's will not make negotiations with people "below them" for the better of everyone else. It is the neglegence of this which is causing people to protest, and seeing as someone who has an edge for greed (bankers, politicians, sheep) will not care for people "below them", a peaceful protest would be entirely pointless.

Once you get to the stage were you have been completely ignored, then things become violent. I agree that violence doesn't solve everything, but sometimes it is needed to get a simple message across.

Originally posted by theubermensch
These people can be used to the advantage of the rebellion. So can Sorros and his cash. My favourite book is The Iron Heel by Jack London. Its pretty much a manual on overthrowing government(the inspiration for The Turner Diaries which is like an updated manual) Activists have alot of energy even if they are mostly idealistic morons. The anarchists can be utilized. The poor. Minorities......

It isnt really a 'movement' its a rebellion.

Great book, very prescient. I loved picturing what a hypothetical fascist police state would look like in pre WWI years in America. Jack London really painted a picture in my mind with that. Then again, he was only embellishing probabilities based on what he saw going on way back 100 years ago. The very next book I read after that was Grapes of Wrath, for the first time, which was also very telling and modeled an emergent police state.

In fact, going back, none of this is new. Or as they say, there is nothing new under the sun. What it is that the Occupy Movement is rising against has been in play for many years. The thing was that since we deferred certain social ills after the Great Depression (with Social Security) and Civil Rights (with integration and supposed equality) and further social movements, we have not really paid attention to how the system is still rigged. And as things started to come to a head over the last 30 years, as manufacturing disappeared, as wages stagnated, as imperial wars started to corrode the quality of life at home...well, things started to exponentially worsen.

And we're seeing that now. There are no jobs, there is no money (at least for what counts - there's plenty for socialist programs that only benefit the wealthy, I've noticed) and the people, many of whom are too ignorant to get it, are waking up to a reality that people on the fringe and in the 3rd world (an extension of our imperialism) have been well aware of even since Jack London or Steinbeck were writing their scathing critiques of our system 80 to 100 years ago. Nothing's changed, more people are getting that.

EDIT: As for the OP, I think it's a bit of a simplistic exercise in neuro-linguistic programming and cognitive framing gone awry. You post a picture of guys in black clothes and bandanas over their faces burning an American flag. The first statement is that of "Broke into YMCA" and the person reading the blurb and seeing the picture:

1) Uses the black clothes and bandanas as iconic metanymy of all protesters (ie, protesters are all violent; to protest = to riot, etc.

2) Associates the picture with the caption (in your case an explanatory paragraph) that refers to the YMCA, even though the picture has nothing to do with the YMCA

So, people who have been trained by the media to read into things a certain way will see the picture and say:

A) Those OWS protest-rioters are destroying the YMCA and burning the American Flag they had inside.

An informed and critical person will say:

B) That group of people who are unknown to me are burning an American flag in front of a classical, columnar entry way. Apparently some members of the OWS movement "broke into" a local YMCA. The picture shown is clearly not the YMCA and by extension those pictured with fire and covered faces are not necessarily those who "broke into" the YMCA. My English semantic system tells me "broke into" means entering when locked or closed or through an access that is restricted, however the article linked says that exercisers inside the YMCA were surprised, which means that broke into probably meant only entering where restricted, and not necessarily or automatically what the normal cognitive framing extension of "broke into" might imply (destruction for the purpose of theft of property).

Therefore, I would be left saying, "huh, a group of angry young people burnt an American flag in front of city hall (pictured), while apparently some other protesters gained access to the YMCA without the necessary permission and both of these incidents are neither necessarily related nor metanymic to the whole Occupy Oakland movement, other Occupy movements, or protesting in general; they are what they are: isolated incidents."t

reply to post by popsmayhem


Sit back and watch some more NFL Football, Dancing With The Stars, and American Idol. The Revolution does not need you at this time.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
OWS failed because they were doing it all wrong.
"Hey guys, let's sit on our asses for months and yell and chant until the corruption ends..." Really, what a good idea.

The whole thing was hijacked from the get go, taken in the direction TPTB wanted it to go, and of course, nothing was solved.... except for a $5 BOA fee that fell through.

How about getting a group together and performing citizen's arrests on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the whole cast & crew of the last 10 years fiasco of illegal wars, crimes against humanity, and murder? No? Ok, then maybe protesting with signs and burning flags will eventually work even though it's done nothing for the last 60 years.

edit on 29-1-2012 by JibbyJedi because: (no reason given)

Yah this is what need to be done, we the people, need to be the governement of these fags for eternity. But the problem is, im from canada, and i know there's a problem in your country, but you guys and all of your country, aint doing nothing... Whats teh problem... You guys better act before other countries do it for yourself, and if that would ever to happen, it wont be pretty.

I can only see 2 scenarios.... 1 you guys rebel and remove your governement and teh elites in power or we wipe out your map and the people on it, and start from scratch and that one wouldnt be pretty for shur.

Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by InsideYourMind

 

Really? Peaceful protest doesn't work? What about Ghandi or Rosa Parks? Peaceful protest is very effective when you have an actual violation to protest. None of these OWSers are fighting for me, they are fighting for themselves. They can't even come to a consensus about what they are for or against!

I'm throwing the BS Flag, Peaceful protest has worked in the past and can work in the future but only if all are on the same page and all are willing to truly sacrifice.

I AM THROWING UP THE BS FLAG. Peaceful protest does NOT work. Rosa Parks is to be commended and all for igniting the fuse, but people fought and died to try and end segregation and racism. lt was no PEACEFUL PROTEST.

You cannot politely ask somebody to step down from power. They have to be forcibly removed!!

Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by PhantomLimb

 

Who represented us during the bailouts? The officials we elected into office! We have elected representation in office. They don't have to ask your or my permission to act on legislation, but must use their best judgement. That's the key when voting, looking for someone we think has our best interests and judgement. If they don't, then we find Someone else, that's our Republic.

This is far from "no taxation without representation." we have elected representation! If you don't like it, find a candidate you do like and work on their campaign, vote for someone new. Destruction of any property just costs the taxpayers and property owners money.

I mean, yeah, ok, we "elect" them. But I think that it's a far cry from legitimate "elected representation". As far as, if you don't like it, find a candidate you do like..." ...well, that's not really how it works anymore. There is too muchmoney and the game is rigged. If this were authentic, there would be more inclusive debates. Are people really so ignorant as to think that only Newt, Romney, Paul, Santorem and the 3 or 4 others thathave dropped out were the only people running for president. Are they so ignorant to think that it is only the Republican party that is going to challenge Obama in the next election?

Quite frankly, yes. Everything is spoon fed to the public by a bought-and-paid-for media that will only allow sanctioned candidates of the other sanctioned party (the one not in office) on the TV for debates. Only CSPAN will even give a forum for non-Republican and minor Republican candidates seeking the office. Do those people on CSPAN have less qualifications than Newt or Romney? Maybe only the guy with the boot on his head...what's his name, Ratfink or something? (He's clearly satirical anyway).

The answer is no. Odds are they are more qualified, for the most part, but lack money. Lacking money means lacking access.

So, while you're little spiel seems like a justification for "not" protesting, it really is basically an explanation of the mainstream meme of civic duty...a sort of "I get to wear an "I VOTED" sticker because I care about the issues!" kind of civil democratic vicariousness. You and I both (I hope, at least) both know that is not how the system works with all this money and influence.

I will give you one thing, though, if more people actually cared to vote, we probably would see less Republicans and Democrats and more involvement of minor parties. As it is, apathy takes over and the few who care to go through the playtime motions of a makebelieve democracy are the same that are manipulated into one of two rather identical worldviews.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

Sit back and watch some more NFL Football, Dancing With The Stars, and American Idol. The Revolution does not need you at this time.

There will be no
revolution!!
These grandiose
fantasies of MAD MAX style
gunning, another revolutionary war, it is NOT going to happen.
This is not 1776! WAKE UP quit dreaming.
We will smash any revolution !

reply to post by popsmayhem


i watched the whole of the march from 2pm to 2am when the last live stream battery died. THE police started by doing flash grenades and teargas on a crowd simply walking, they did nothing wrong, they did not break into the ymca the doors were open, the police kettled them in told them to disperse, when there was no way to disperse because they were trapped some tried to get to the ymca and through the back but they were arrested inside. where they must have had tons of police waiting ... not only did the police put an innocent girl in the hospital for simply walking, they had under covers dressed in black and stealing cameras, Pushed down an old man for no reason, and arrested innocent bystanders. and that is only from a couple of the sources i saw. the group that burned the flag well, there are those people in every group of thousands of people right? are you saying the moon is a door so everyone on ats thinks its a door>? i truely hope not.

this was reported incorrectly, unfairly and of course that is the way they want them portrayed.

the man filming said they had been releasing chemical weapons all day...(police not the protestors)

however i did see them littering and eating dinner, using excessive force, on 4 peaceful people just walking with the crowd.

and i took several screen prints during the feeds of them getting arrested.







another account in the citys info that is untrue

protestors were not throwing things at police, they did not have expolosives, they did walk in the streets but did not know where they were half the time, so then police kettled them. and told them to disperse, however since the occupiers were surrounded on all sides they could not disperse, and anyone that got close to the police was arrested so they were not near the police especially after this,

old man

moments later the girl with the bicycle was punched in the face and flew like 5 feet back and landed on her head, the officer who did that was 3x her size, she was only facing them and telling them they should not have knocked down the old man... she was grabbed by the police and then rushed to the hospital they were concerned about internal bleeding from hitting her head so hard on the pavement, someone also said she was pregnant but i couldnt tell for sure.

another person watching live said this on their facebook

mayor recieved many unhappy calls undoubtedly from many people around the world. came out and told them they can no longer use police to harrass her own people. anon hacked her personal info and it is now all over the world. i had nothing to do with this im just a msgr. the cia also got taken down for a time during this i do not know if anon was involved but i assume it was an attempt. approx 300 people arrested, 7 busses sent, still about 50 people left to send out. camera man is about to run out of battery, he is filming from a private residence someone came and got him so he did not get arrested.

i also heard that the mayor came down on the feed and spoke to them about using her men to bully her town. so I dono who she meant... the pd or someone else?

the screen shots i have now are showing not what it would look like in an anarchy situation but in a police state... while those cops were eating and littering and beating the crap out of some more people there were about 100 more in the YMCA and about a cop per person if you counted them out (for the people in the YMCA) I believe to have that many cops in there, without actually Seeing the cops enter they must have corralled them here and had the police waiting inside. because i did not see that many cops follow into the building!

cornered all here cuffed and sitting quietly while police wait for transportation

nobody is revolting or fighting

across the street

just 4 of the bus's they took the rest in vans and cars when ran out
protestors waited hours on end, and did not cause problems.

the violence demonstrated by the police in this was totally uncalled for from what i saw, Now mind you, im not talking about the people who were strays from this demonstration that burned the flag I was not watching them but obviously they were not in this crowd. That for all i know could have been a stunt by the police like they had been pulling all fricking day or some kids who thought they were awesome and radical.

i am pretty sure you can expect another mass lawsuit against the departments that were involved in this. They had several called in, and called for more and more as the night went on.

thats it out of room.

Originally posted by METACOMET
They can burn all the gold-fringe flags they want as far as I'm concerned.

Well spotted
I agree but most people on here will not even appreciate the hidden meaning of your statement

PEACE,
RK

reply to post by popsmayhem


You, sir, seem to have a fetish for distorting the truth and using second-hand mainstream media reports to slander an entire group of individuals.

You're just as bad as what the left did to the Tea Party; you're disgracing everything this website is for.

Deny ignorance, sir, and watch a bloody livestream from time to time. Listen to what they have to say. Ignore the actions of black block and provocateurs. If you don't do this, you can truly give no commentary against Occupy that is not sensationalist drivel the likes of which Fox News can't even spew.