Did Carl Sagan know something?

Originally posted by TheSam

Really? How the hell do archaeologists translate ancients texts & languages from civilizations long gone?

If this message was received & responded to, don't you think an ET race far more advanced than our own would have difficulty translating it? Even when our own race can translate languages long died out on Earth? To me it seems like childs play for an advanced race to translate our own language.

The difference, of course, is that even the most distant and alien human culture is still a HUMAN culture. All of our languages share common bonds, our topics of communication are familiar, our structure of language is common, and if you trace the clock far enough back we all come from the same tribe.

You really don't seem to understand the difference between a team of archaeologists decoding a tablet that's a few hundred years old and written in a familiar language, and translating a completely alien language that is encoded in an arbitrary cypher.

reply to post by Wolfenz


Okay, but now we're postulating the existence of an alien species that has coexisted with human beings on earth for thousands of years, with intimate knowledge of our communication systems and technology, without any evidence to suggest their existence besides a few crop circle patterns. But assuming that, then yes, I think they'd have a good chance of figuring out how to write in ASCII.

reply to post by VoidHawk


What profanity lol I think i may have posted some random numbers out of frustration but to be honest I found this post very thought provoking at the least. I dont think anyone will really know what is going on with his message and these crop circles. I know it is not about the crop circles but the mode of communication if it is a reply is very interesting seeing that there is so many other means to communicate, why the dramatics?

Originally posted by warren3720
I think there might be a connection to circle crops and the face on Mars, aka alien face on Mars? Aliens on Mars.

I think the anomolies found on the Moon, Mars etc could be the ruins of an Ancient Earth space travelling Civlisation.
But who knows for sure - I remain open minded. I am also open minded to the idea that there is a secret space programme going on today. I used to be unsure of UFOs until I saw 2 in one evening yet I believe they could have been Military.

I loved Carl Sagan's Cosmos! That was the best show ever for it's time.
"billions and billions" It boggled his mind like it does everyone else.
He was an extremely smart man!

I have nothing else to add to this thread other than to say WHAT A GREAT THREAD!! It made me think, which is a good thing!

I didn't read the entire thing though....

Just had to make a comment on Carl, he was the best.

We trick ourselves by anthropomorphizing the nature of this universe.

We trick ourselves by anthropomorphizing the nature of the divine.

We trick ourselves by anthropomorphizing what it is really not.

My point is, do not become so alluded by what you see. Observe the other causes and changes, and approach this universe with rationality.

www.merriam-webster.com...

This one has always fascinated me

Vigays death was " a mystery" coroners official response. Similar in suddeness to Rik Clay.
Something is definately happening this year. The effects are being felt i'm just hoping it isn't what we all fear

My response to the deaths of whistleblowers,theorists and the like is either black ops got them or the knowledge and the truth they found made their mind become insane thus ending their life prematurely..

The reply is amazing. Either brilliant hoax work or the real deal. The message, the perfect response tablet even the face.

Greys=false bearers(warning to the governments who are in league with them)
Human them?


I hope this stuff goes down in a way.

"I suggest that you ask people all around the world to write the following in deserts, beaches, forests, crops, and on all frequencies of amateur radio: ‘2', 5' ---6 ‘… ‘3', 5' --- 10 ‘ Or simply ‘6 /10’ if they are lazy. But the full
message is better ...”"

I don't get that i'm afraid.


As for the theory that it is this solar system i agree Earth,Mars,4 moons of Jupiter. I also believe 21.4 billion either refers to both combined or "they" live beneath the surface of mars.

If they lived here where do they live? Underwater due to the fact most of the ocean is unexplored and many places we just cannot go for example the Marianas Trench or subterranean way down beneath our feet.


I would love it to be true but i do remain convinced it is one of the more compelling ones out there. If it is an hoax well done to those who did it as it is far more convincing than most of the crap today.

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

why the dramatics?

lol, what dramatics? was simply replying in the same mode

In case you wondering it says Swearing is not allowed on ats

Sagan was not a believer in little green men, at least publicly, but he did believe that there was an acceptable probability of life elsewhere in the universe.

In other words, he left the door open for us Alien whackos after he did the 'real' (orthodox approved) science. I think his effort in sending the disk on Pioneer was perhaps seen as a genuine show of basic communication, and would be welcoming to an advanced race.

The sentiment was good, the science accurate.

Whoever left the circles was highly intelligent, and well versed in all manner of disciplines.

No one with the sheer resources to pull off an event like this has come forward, and any one or two personalities with these combined attributes would seek the incredible attention paid to the tricksters.

What would the military industrial complex gain from such an operation?

reply to post by wirehead
The ant factor...How we look at,think about and perceive ants,could be the way superior than us aliens perceive us.They may be as concerned about us,as we are about ants,as we continuously walk on,drive over and crush them by the millions every day...

Some of these crop circles "the alien made ones" might have nothing to do with humans.They could be highly evolved species of aliens communicating to eachother and not to us at all...

The highly evolved aliens are probably the true dominant species of earth,we just think we are,because we are taught and told to think we are and because of our egos...

If we tried to or had to,how would we be able to communicate with ants,who may be the most intelligent of all insects,what methods would we use?

Would we re-arrange their little piles of sand and pebbles around their holes into distinct shapes and sizes?

What would they think is going on?

What would we be saying to them?

Would they then re-arrange them into other shapes and sizes to try and communicate back to us?

What are we saying to them as we walk on,drive over and crush them all the time?

Originally posted by wirehead
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Okay, but now we're postulating the existence of an alien species that has coexisted with human beings on earth for thousands of years, with intimate knowledge of our communication systems and technology, without any evidence to suggest their existence besides a few crop circle patterns. But assuming that, then yes, I think they'd have a good chance of figuring out how to write in ASCII.

it could also be that they didn't want or need to communicate until the waters, the air and the earth itself is threatened in so many ways creating a need.

Star and Flag.

Great read!

reply to post by VoidHawk


numbers are meaningless, unless you put value to them. As far as dramatics are concerned Im just saying even still if they could beam a message from space (alien theory) or they could organize such a precise operation (secret organization) or unknown unknowns whatever put a message in a field beside a radio tower why not put it by the radio tower or the launch pad rather that the message was sent from? why a field to begin with? why not cloud patterns? these are the things that tend to make me more skeptical about the outer space thing personally my favorite is why wouldnt whoever "they" are just make a facebook account post some youtube videos and present irrefutable evidence on ATS about what ever message it is they are trying to relay?

also i wasnt referring to you being dramatic I was talking about putting a pattern in a field that is pretty dramatic in my opinion.

reply to post by Brotherman
Would an alien species "need math" to reach a superior state of mind?

Would they have to learn,understand and use "numbers" to reach an advanced level?

Is mathematical prowess an automatic pre-requisite for attaining super intelligence?

Maybe?...But i dont think so...

Just because thats what humans have done by choosing numbers and math as a way of structuring their thoughts and as tools to design and display their abilities,doesnt mean its the only way,the only thing to base intelligence around...

To a class-3 civilization,math and numbers might have become meaningless and useless as they continued to evolve ever higher and then attained their technological and psychological apogee...

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

i wasnt referring to you being dramatic I was talking about putting a pattern in a field that is pretty dramatic in my opinion.

edit on 29-1-2012 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)

I agree,

The message they sent towards M13 was a bit silly. If you look at it closely you'll see that sometimes it reads top down and in other places it reads side on, not ideal for first communication.

My real reason for the thread was to find out whether there was any validity to the chemistry and dna etc. If so then the idea that Carl knew something is not so rediculous. But, as we all saw, people wanted to focus on the circles. That wound me up at first because it wasn't what I was after but I now realise my error

Personaly I do believe that some circles are beyond MOST peoples ability, such as those I presented. That does not mean I believe it was aliens, I lean towards intel, though for what reason I dont know but in the cc vid you'll see plenty of millitary helicopter activity.

I agree the idea of contact in this way would be silly but there are many plausible reasons given by others.

I notice that some people researched various points and came back with their answers and to them I would say that if Carl DID know something and tptb did not want it known then its unlikely they are going to find the truth.

I know people will dissagree but personly I think Carl did it on purpose.

Originally posted by jimnuggits
Sagan was not a believer in little green men, at least publicly, but he did believe that there was an acceptable probability of life elsewhere in the universe.

Well, let's say that Sagan knew where the money was. He authored the sci-fi book "Contact," which was later made into a movie starring Jodie Foster and Matthew McConaughey, which sort of disproves any notion that Sagan couldn't think outside the box of dogmatic Science.

Interestingly, though, the movie version of the book was far more technological than Sagan's original concept. He very interestingly portrayed the alien craft as a kind of biological construct, almost like a synthetic brain.

That's an important leap for a man of science, I think.

I mean, I maintain that the brain — and all brains, in fact — function like Quantum Antennae, permitting all living things in the Universe to communicate over incomprehensible distances, essentially defying four-dimensional physics.

Amazing fact that I've learned reading this thread. Man sends message by radio wave into outer space. Aliens receive and translate message, compose a reply in English but respond by displaying it in a crop circle rather than a radio transmission.
How did they do this? Did they flatten those crops from their home planet with some sort of laser or did they send a crew down to earth and busily do this overnight?

Why would they travel great distances to flatten crops in the hope we'd interpret this as a response when they could just say "Hi! We got your message asking us to come visit...so...here we are!" ?

The whole point of the message is to give directions to where we're located, who we are and what we are.

Well, strangely enough, Carl Sagan thought the most likely means of Contact would be aliens sending our own radio transmissions back to us.

Which is eminently probable. See, aliens could spend CENTURIES trying to decode our radio and television transmissions and learn our languages... OR.... They could simply take our signals and send them back to Earth.

I mean, we would KNOW something was odd if original televised episodes of I Love Lucy from 1951 started raining down on Earth right about now, eh? The aliens wouldn't have to send a specific message at all. All we have to do is calculate half of 61 years, the round trip of a radio wave, and we will know that SOMEBODY about 30 light years away is trying to get our attention.

That would probably be in the vicinity of Vega, some 25 Light Years away.

We will thus know the aliens have something approximating radio-television technology, as well as a grasp of astronomy, inasmuch as they knew which direction to transmit the return signal.

There may be millions of other, closer civilizations that have NOT developed radio technology, of course.

But here's something to think about...

Most of the signals we sent into space from the beginning of Radio up to about six years ago were analog signals, okay? We are COMPLETELY switching over to digital transmissions now. We all had to get new televisions, right? Or at least get digital converters for our old analog televisions.

But WHY did we switch over from analog to digital?

Cleaner signal? Better resolution? Government control of ALL communications?

Or do they not want us watching analog television because there are OLD ANALOG SIGNALS returning to Earth from other civilizations?

But here's something to think about...

Most of the signals we sent into space from the beginning of Radio up to about six years ago were analog signals, okay? We are COMPLETELY switching over to digital transmissions now. We all had to get new televisions, right? Or at least get digital converters for our old analog televisions.

But WHY did we switch over from analog to digital?

Cleaner signal? Better resolution? Government control of ALL communications?

Or do they not want us watching analog television because there are OLD ANALOG SIGNALS returning to Earth from other civilizations?

What a fantastic idea. I personaly assumed it was for total control of what we view. Much harder to break into the digital satelite signal.
I'm not sure if you were joking but that IS a FACT. We would not be able to recieve it.