Did Carl Sagan know something?

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Harte

 

No online translation that I'm aware of.

I wouldn't expect them to know the inner workings of the technology, just the bit's and pieces that the 'Gods' allowed them to observe.

I think that the above doesn't fit in to the mythos, since texts like the Mahabharata credit the invention of the vimana to the "clever Greeks."

Your linked source describes how the thing is built, describes putting mercury in a vessel. How could putting mercury in a vessel cause energy output?

No, I believe Vimanas were not only flown by gods, but by men as well, according to the myths.

Harte

Wowwy, this is some real good research! If those are faked crop circles, then I'm the governor of Alaska. They are far too large and complex to be human-made. I don't think that I'm going on a limb here by saying that this is a message from one of the more noble alien races letting the shadow government know that they are in bed with some deceptive entities and they will stand against it. There's not just 1 other species among us folks, hate to break it to ya!

reply to post by jaketyson85
The earth is a higher conscious being whos trying to communicate to us,trying to tell us something,its showing us messages in the shape and form of intricate,elaborate,massive geometric crop circles that would be impossible to make by humans on the ground and the earth may be saying..."what are you doing to me? I will live on,but your extinction is imminent"

Would'nt it be mind blowing to find out that crop circles started appearing to the dinosaurs a few years before the yucatan doomsday asteroid struck...

We should have secret code makers,code breakers,crypto analysts and other such experts working on these crop circles night and day,just like countries had during WW-2,trying to figure out the crop circles messages and meanings "break their codes" and along with the help of modern computers theres no reason why we shouldnt be doing this...

I was a huge fan as a kid of his Cosmos series and I guess that is where it all started for me. Although it was the catch phrase "billions and billions" that brought him fame, his work was one of a pioneer of sorts. He was one of the first to stand behind SETI and also Exobiology. I have nothing but great respect for him and thought he was way ahead of his time. He had the gift to be able to speak to the common man about astronomy. We all can see the stars and moon, but he helped us marvel at the vastness and possibilities of space and beyond! Oh yes... also a Jewish Atheist.

Originally posted by MeMyselfI

Originally posted by VoidHawk
The area showing our solar system is slightly different.

Don't know about all of this post, but the part (above) about the solar system depiction caught my attention...

The reply, showing Earth, Mars, and Jupiter raised up, AND Jupiter "glowing" made me think of *2001: A Space Odyssey*! Recall in the sequel, "2010", Jupiter is turned into a new "sun" so that our system becomes a binary star system. This could also (maybe) make Mars habitable. To me this looks like what the reply is showing us...

I thought this too originally - Earth, Mars and Jupiter. However staying true to the original message where each small square represents a planet - the "message" could instead represent planet 1, planet 2 and a Klemperer rosette of planets 3,4,5 and 6....just a thought.

reply to post by umbratica


What i think the return message is saying is that they have inhabited the 3rd,4th and 5th planets out from whichever star that is and the 5th planet out has 4 moons and we should have put a little circle next to our earth circle to show that we have a single moon,why did'nt we do that?

reply to post by VoidHawk


This looks visually great. As much as I would like to think this is a "reply" from extraterrestrials I just can't. I think the simplest answer is most likely the most realistic. A lot of clever people like to make interesting patterns in fields, just to see how much interest it generates on sites like this one. Remember it only really needs one or two scientifically bright people to come up with the pattern design, you don't need a whole team of Phd's running around in a field in the middle of the night with their planks and bits of string. Or ground corrected GPS units.

I have to wonder about the following:

If it's an alien reply that was made instantaneously by some marvellous device, why were'nt the patterns all made at the same time.

Why wasn't any reply just sent back to Arecibo on the same radio frequency.

And the big one:

Why, if they have such amazing technology aren't these complex patterns appearing on clouds all over the planet. The same pictograms in glorious colour, kilometers across.

I think the answer to the last question is:

Because it's easy for anyone that really has a mind to draw complex patterns in feilds to get a team together and do it. Projecting the same complex images on clouds kilometers across is way beyond any smart uni students with a sense of humour and an interest in ET.

Of course for any ET's wishing to send a "reply", or any other deep meaningful message for mankind, producing these huge colour images on clouds would be a peice of cake.

Then of course there's the target star system, 20 odd thousand light years away, the signal has been travelling how long? 20 something years, it's still over 20,000 years from getting anywhere near it, not to mention when it does eventually get to that point in space the target star system will be gone, the universe is in constant motion, the target star system will be in a completely different location.

As far as the signal being heard by anyone or anything inbetween us and the target star system goes, it was a pretty narrow beam, I doubt it.

As far as not thinking too much about the crop patterns goes, I don't quite get it, if the crop patterns are man made, just for fun, what's the point of spending time trying to figure out what they're trying to say. Just put a line through the crop patterns, then you can forget all about it. And save yourself a headache.

Remember Occam's razor gentlemen.

So, sorry guys, my opinon for what it's worth, nothing whatsoever to do with ET.

reply to post by VoidHawk


I figure I should reply to the OP regarding anything other than crop circles, else he may explode.

Are you suggesting that humans and aliens, although having a different genetic makeup (I don't understand DNA properly either), are related or of the same family/genus/possibility for hybrids?

Also, does the supposed alien DNA give them the biological makeup to be able to exist on other planets in our solar system?

I don't know why, but I generally assumed aliens wouldn't be physical, or at least as dense as humans. I always imagined them to be conscious ether with a rapid vibration that gave the illusion that they were just light.

I hope this has met the OP's expectation. I did read it all..

No activity for me, after spray-painting that msg I said I would on a series of roofs. Truth be told, though, I don't go out onto the roof a lot during the middle of the night in Winter time, cuz.. you know... it's kinda cold out. Summer time I can spend hours outside watching the skies, and I do. Might have to wait til warmer weather?

I'll keep trying, but I haven't personally seen a UFO in a couple months now. Mysterious things! Last time I saw, though, two friends that hadn't ever seen any saw what I did. They were astounded, but positive.

Originally posted by elg3cko
No activity for me, after spray-painting that msg I said I would on a series of roofs.

If you realy painted that message on the roof I take my hat off to you at least you tried.

Originally posted by Fragment
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

I hope this has met the OP's expectation. I did read it all..

My purpose for the post was to suggest that Carl Sagan may have known something, also I wanted confirmation on the dna. I had assumed that most people would have already seen the crop pics and I included them mainly to show how I arrived at my question.

I live and learn and any future threads will be prepared more carefully.

No I wont explode.

While i am entertained by the replies and a excellent read, thank you OP for a good topic.

I sit on the fence and see something amazing created, and to think it was done by some drunk locals, now to me drunks would atleast make a mess of it being in a drunken state.

I also find it hard to beleive that if i was sending a message quoted below

Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts and their BROKEN PROMISES.
Much PAIN but still time.
There is GOOD out there.
We OPose DECEPTION.
Conduit CLOSING.


I have a few sentances or phases to say and i would mention Conduit Closing??
Why would i mention something that has no real meaning other than an action i'm taking " to close the conduit" or it's being closed

Surely i'd use this opportunity to give something more informative.

Originally posted by ZeskoWhirligan
Well, strangely enough, Carl Sagan thought the most likely means of Contact would be aliens sending our own radio transmissions back to us.

Which is eminently probable. See, aliens could spend CENTURIES trying to decode our radio and television transmissions and learn our languages... OR.... They could simply take our signals and send them back to Earth.

I mean, we would KNOW something was odd if original televised episodes of I Love Lucy from 1951 started raining down on Earth right about now, eh? The aliens wouldn't have to send a specific message at all. All we have to do is calculate half of 61 years, the round trip of a radio wave, and we will know that SOMEBODY about 30 light years away is trying to get our attention.

That would probably be in the vicinity of Vega, some 25 Light Years away.

We will thus know the aliens have something approximating radio-television technology, as well as a grasp of astronomy, inasmuch as they knew which direction to transmit the return signal.

There may be millions of other, closer civilizations that have NOT developed radio technology, of course.

But here's something to think about...

Most of the signals we sent into space from the beginning of Radio up to about six years ago were analog signals, okay? We are COMPLETELY switching over to digital transmissions now. We all had to get new televisions, right? Or at least get digital converters for our old analog televisions.

But WHY did we switch over from analog to digital?

Cleaner signal? Better resolution? Government control of ALL communications?

Or do they not want us watching analog television because there are OLD ANALOG SIGNALS returning to Earth from other civilizations?

edit on 30-1-2012 by ZeskoWhirligan because: (no reason given)

25 pages in and this was the most compelling post imho. Brings up a great point. And the fact that you mentioned Vega really excites me if this was, in fact, the destination our communications have reached. However, if Vega did intercept our message, with prior knowledge of the planet, why wouldn't they give us something WAY more important back. Especially considering science is now contemplating that our solar system is actually spiraling right towards the planet Vega.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Harte

 

Well now I understand why you are hell bent, with the red mist blinding your eyes, on debunking, and your post to star ratio shows it.

There are people who lie. Not Von Daniken. He poses questions. David Childress seems to be the liar. We've been through this before.

Sitchin isn't necessarily a liar either. Neither is Sagan.

There are certain uncertainties. The Vimana's and the description of their design (including the use of Mercury) in ANCIENT Sanskrit texts. Ezekiels chariot. Some of the Mesoamerican statues of men in what seem to be rockets, and other art that has replicated modern, or even advanced, technology. Also, The strange data supplied in 'some' crop circles. The Sumerian/Babylonian creation tale.

Then there are uncertain uncertainties like David Childress' quote of the mahabharata....and the 'incandescent column of smoke and fire'.

I respect the fact you are on a mission. Just ensure you keep an open mind.

If it wasn't for Sitchin I would have never really questioned things and furthered my quest for knowledge. And as far as the Vimanas where did you first stumble on such "tales" for lack of a better term?

Originally posted by LAZers

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Harte

 

Well now I understand why you are hell bent, with the red mist blinding your eyes, on debunking, and your post to star ratio shows it.

There are people who lie. Not Von Daniken. He poses questions. David Childress seems to be the liar. We've been through this before.

Sitchin isn't necessarily a liar either. Neither is Sagan.

There are certain uncertainties. The Vimana's and the description of their design (including the use of Mercury) in ANCIENT Sanskrit texts. Ezekiels chariot. Some of the Mesoamerican statues of men in what seem to be rockets, and other art that has replicated modern, or even advanced, technology. Also, The strange data supplied in 'some' crop circles. The Sumerian/Babylonian creation tale.

Then there are uncertain uncertainties like David Childress' quote of the mahabharata....and the 'incandescent column of smoke and fire'.

I respect the fact you are on a mission. Just ensure you keep an open mind.

If it wasn't for Sitchin I would have never really questioned things and furthered my quest for knowledge. And as far as the Vimanas where did you first stumble on such "tales" for lack of a better term?

Just like you, I first heard of them from fringe authors that (it turned out) were lying to me about it.

Harte

It is an interesting theory, but after seeing "two drunks with a plank of wood" create quite a complex circle in a matter of a few hours, I am not sold.

All it would have took was someone with a bit of creativity and knowledge of the original message to come up with an intriguing hoax. I think it is a safe bet that every crop "circle" maker tries to outdo the last.

It has become an impressive art form, but art nonetheless, terrestrial, man made.

Oh the two drunks with a plank of wood I mentioned earlier was actually a small group of very sober men and women.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I'd also like to add that I believe many people in important places, such as Sagan was, are privy to the information stating that humans have been genetically engineered by aliens.

If the US government stumbles upon advanced technology which needs to be examened because it is completely unknown to what scientist do know, you bet they try to put 'the best and the brightest' on it.

Maybe Sagan was not the best and the brightest but he would certainly qualify for being asked to look into the "matter". Therefore I always try to read between the lines when a top-scientist is asked about the "unexplained". There are indications that there are such scientist who deny the existance of UFOs to the public actively while being a member of a secret governmental investigation team.

Stanton Friedman allegedly stumbled upon such a scientist. Dr. Donald H. Menzel, a Harvard astronomer who supposedly was a thorough UFO sceptic, but whom Friedman discovered led a very busy Military Intelligence life.

If you would like to learn more about such scientists read this information.

reply to post by LAZers


Such tales, I heard about them from Alternative sources but have found some solace in the fact the info DOES appear as per this post, in credible texts of antiquity:

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Harte

 

I'll happily prove you wrong:

Link

Samarangana Sutradhara is in eighty three chapters with chapter thirty one specializing in the mechanical contrivances and Yantras, having verses 95-100 dealing with the construction of bird shaped aerial cars and verses 101-107 dealing with the Robots meant to act as guards.

i.e. Having made a wooden large bird having body very stout and well knit, in the interior or abdomen of that one mercury, one may pour down. In its lower portion the fire place having fire filled in-

i.e. mounted over or into that the man by the breeze released owing to flapping of wings twain by the energy of its mercury, taking to marvels -flies far away into the sky. Samarangana Sutradhara, GOSE, pp. 183-184).

A wooden bird in whose hollow body is placed a copper contrivance one inch long and one quarter inch high, of slender cylindrical shape in two well joined halves allowing a hole at the centre along which air passes when the bird moves creating a pleasing sound.

reply to post by Harte


Yes, but as we have discussed Harte, it is certainly not cut and dry. It's just people like Von Daniken and Childress have used lies to reinforce their beliefs. Doesn't mean there isn't truth mixed in there.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
Yes, but as we have discussed Harte, it is certainly not cut and dry. It's just people like Von Daniken and Childress have used lies to reinforce their beliefs. Doesn't mean there isn't truth mixed in there.

Yes, there's no doubting that such tales do appear in fairly ancient texts.

However, many other truly fantastic things appear in the same texts. Such as talking a mountain into moving out of the way.

Are we to believe this as well?

My point is, there is simply no reason whatsoever to take these stories as factual in any way.

Until at least a whit of evidence appears, there's simply no reason at all to believe this stuff.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Are you referring to the bible that states you can move a mountain with faith?

I believe things like this could be done by those beings. Who knows what they were capable of? Who knows if the technology being written about is even correct? What if it was just a guess that it was mercury?

There's still so many questions....one cannot dismiss because it sounds preposterous.