Did Carl Sagan know something?, page 24

reply to post by The Ghost Who Walks

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The earth has an ever expanding bubble of man-made radio signals expanding outward at the speed of light...

These early Radio transmissions were short range experiments that used simple clicks and interrupts to show transmission of information in the 1890s...

In 1900,Reginald Fessenden made the first,though incredibly weak,voice transmission over the airwaves.The next year saw a step up in power as Guglielmo Marconi made the first ever transatlantic Radio broadcast...

This means that at 110 light years away from earth,the edge of a radio sphere,which contains many star systems,our very first Radio broadcasts are beginning to arrive...

At 74 light years away,Television signals are being introduced.Star systems at a distance of 50 light-years are now entering the Twilight Zone and Star Trek ect,ect...

Our signals have reached over 100 light years out into space in all directions and there are around 15,000 stars within 100 light years of the Sun,only 1/3 of which are actually known...

Like some kind of giantic pulsating neon sign thats perpetually flashing in all directions and saying over and over again..."here we are,come and get us"

What have we done?

Who or what is technologically advanced enough to have figured out where those signals have been emanating from?

We might not like who or what comes knocking at our door,or are they already here?

Considering the fact that theres been a great increase and literally well over a million UFO,Flying Saucer and Alien sightings and encounters in just the past hundred years and knowing that perhaps half of all sightings and encounters remain unreported for fear of ridicule and denial...

They already have found us...

reply to post by blocula

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dude nice reply
i think they found us already to
www.youtube.com... have u seen these yet
looking forward to one of ur next threads

reply to post by VoidHawk

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Excellent thread. I read through the entire thing and now I must think about it. Very interesting questions arise. I'm going to read through the replies later.

reply to post by blocula

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Gee you could make not so bad posts too and talking about how radio signal travels. Yes I agree.

reply to post by Imtor

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Its so true,i mean think about it,we've actually been finding earth like planets and perhaps there are millions of them or even more and there are at least 15,000 stars within 100 light years of our sun and for around 100 years we have been advertising ourselves...

Just like some kind of massive bulls-eye,a gigantic glistening and flashing neon sign thats perpetually saying "Here we are" "Theres intelligent life right here" "Third planet from the sun contains advanced beings" "Come one come all who ever you are" "Come one come all what ever you are"...

Only problem is,in the past,when we started emanating this ever expanding bubble of non-random signals out into space in all directions at the speed of light,i dont think very much thought went into contemplating or realizing who or what might be out there thats advanced enough to have figured out the origin of our steady stream of signals and in doing so will be able to pin point our location exactly...

And the ominous fact remains,as far as i can tell,theres a 50/50 chance that they or it are either benevolent or manevolent in nature and whoever or whatever they are,they may already know we are here and they could very well be an evil and war like civilization...

As far as i'm concerned,many different civilizations already know where we are and at least a few of them are already here and some of them may be so advanced that they were able to detect our signals from within another dimension and even they are here amongst us as well,they're in the air,they're in the ocean and they're underground...

reply to post by Harte

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I totally understand how our signals would dissipate the further they travel out.But i also think that any advanced civilization,say a class-2,would definitely have the technology to distinguish our non-random signals and the random and naturally occuring signals of space and they would be able to trace them backwards to their source and know where they're emanating from,you and me...

For over 100 years the earth has been like a lighthouse in the fog of outer space,sending out a perpetual flow of non-random signals,ever expanding beacons of intelligently designed transmissions streaming outwards in all directions at the speed of light...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Harte

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I totally understand how our signals would dissipate the further they travel out.But i also think that any advanced civilization,say a class-2,would definitely have the technology to distinguish our non-random signals and the random and naturally occuring signals of space and they would be able to trace them backwards to their source and know where they're emanating from,you and me...

The technology? Maybe.

However, the point is that they wouldn't know where to find them and our broadcasts wouldn't stand out at all against background EM signals.

In fact, depending on the direction, our broacasts could easily be completely consumed by background EM, such as in the case where our solar system is between the aliens and one of the millions of systems that are putting out extremely strong (but natural) radio signals.

Sorry, but the idea, while very interesting, is also very unlikely.

Harte

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by The Ghost Who Walks

---

The earth has an ever expanding bubble of man-made radio signals expanding outward at the speed of light...

These early Radio transmissions were short range experiments that used simple clicks and interrupts to show transmission of information in the 1890s...

In 1900,Reginald Fessenden made the first,though incredibly weak,voice transmission over the airwaves.The next year saw a step up in power as Guglielmo Marconi made the first ever transatlantic Radio broadcast...

This means that at 110 light years away from earth,the edge of a radio sphere,which contains many star systems,our very first Radio broadcasts are beginning to arrive...

At 74 light years away,Television signals are being introduced.Star systems at a distance of 50 light-years are now entering the Twilight Zone and Star Trek ect,ect...

Our signals have reached over 100 light years out into space in all directions and there are around 15,000 stars within 100 light years of the Sun,only 1/3 of which are actually known...

Like some kind of giantic pulsating neon sign thats perpetually flashing in all directions and saying over and over again..."here we are,come and get us"

What have we done?

Who or what is technologically advanced enough to have figured out where those signals have been emanating from?

We might not like who or what comes knocking at our door,or are they already here?

Considering the fact that theres been a great increase and literally well over a million UFO,Flying Saucer and Alien sightings and encounters in just the past hundred years and knowing that perhaps half of all sightings and encounters remain unreported for fear of ridicule and denial...

They already have found us...

edit on 30-1-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

"They already have found us..."


And, if everything you're saying is true, than they must be living by Star Trek's Prime Directive, eh?

Not so science fiction, after all. Mooohooohaaaahaaaahaa...

Originally posted by thebestnr1
reply to post by blocula

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dude nice reply
i think they found us already to
www.youtube.com... have u seen these yet
looking forward to one of ur next threads

That video is pretty solid. In terms of collecting legit news sources reporting strange arial phenomenon, time after time after time and again and again and again...

[and, blocula.. for real: well stated, above - interesting to think about]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

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Its now supposed that there exists many billions of planets all over the universe,containing perhaps millions and millions of earth like worlds orbiting around their stars habitable zones...

Our ever expanding stream of radio and television signals have now reached outwards in all directions for over one hundred light years and within that vast distance exists more than fifteen thousand stars...

We are not alone and there must be numerous advanced beings and entities out there within the void of ancient light and some of them know we are here and they have found us...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

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Its now supposed that there exists many billions of planets all over the universe,containing perhaps millions and millions of earth like worlds orbiting around their stars habitable zones...

Our ever expanding stream of radio and television signals have now reached outwards in all directions for over one hundred light years and within that vast distance exists more than fifteen thousand stars...

We are not alone and there must be numerous advanced beings and entities out there within the void of ancient light and some of them know we are here and they have found us...

edit on 3-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

Well, I see what you're saying, and I'm with you, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

15,000 stars is not a very big sample size(!) Even if 1 planet in 1 Million come out the other side of the (new) Drake Equation - which I would think to be extraordinarily high, but good for this example - that would still only be a 1 in 67 chance that another advanced civ would be detecting our man-made radio signals.

MY guess is, folks know we're already here, because they seeded us here in the first place, long ago.

reply to post by lke123

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The two most grounbreaking science fiction movies ever made imo are...

Star Wars-1977 by George Lucas.Because with that movie,its story,those characters,the spaceships and death star,i think he tapped into something thats been buried deep within the subconsciousness of humanity,ancient race memories of humanities long ago and long forgotten past and thats why it was the most popular movie ever made.There was nothing like it before and it changed our culture and the way we think about and look at outer space...

2001 a space odyssey-1968 by stanley kubrick,another milestone movie,done without computer aide,filmed before we landed on the moon,that changed the direction of science fiction films and altered our perceptions about the possibility of superior beings out there in the universe and its profound use of music,perfectly designed spaceships,the stargate sequence and star child ending are simply mind expanding and subliminally uplifting...

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

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I'm no albert einstein,but wheres the proof that frank drakes equations are even correct?

Why was he able to be the one to decide and say how many planets with intelligent life are out there in the milky way galaxy?

He may have been totally wrong and he certainly shouldnt be granted the final say in the matter...

Surely his thoughts and equations are not the be all end all solution and the only answers...

Theres probably many other intelligent people out there who completely disagree with him...

There could very well be one hundred times as many planets as drake said there are out there with intelligent life living upon them...

Theres probably some guy living in a shack in india right now whos ten times smarter than drake was,who will never be able to get into the position to properly express his genius about the subject...

reply to post by blocula

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Nobody's saying Franke Drake is the end-all, be-all of human existance- but, it's a good start.

You got a better equation? A better explanation? I'm all ears.

Guys much smarter than me or you came up with that, so let's at least start there. The ONLY factor that changes based on anything new (eg. number of earthlike planets being found, specifically) still does not make 15,000 stars a good SRS for advanced civs.

Sorry. Just the way it is. Don't fight the math.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

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How is math able to be the deciding factor in determining how many planets that there may or may not be out there amongst the hundreds of billions of stars in the milky way galaxy? and there are hundreds of billions of other galaxies that aso exist as well...

There has been criticism of the drake equation,mostly because several terms in the equation are largely or entirely based on conjecture...

"Thus the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions of any kind" As michael crichton,a science fiction author,stated in a 2003 lecture at caltech...

Drake originally formulated the equation merely as an agenda for discussion at the Green Bank conference...

Drake equation > en.wikipedia.org...

Excellent thread.

Maybe Sagan designed the original transmission AND the RESPONSE?

I always thought that Sagan was Chief of the uber-Team-Newtonian-debunkerizer crew; Your post may actually suggest that, in fact, this persona was just a facade ...

Which leads me to wonder, does the mere mention of his name lead me to vomit (as it always has), or, is he my new Christ (for double-crossing all the pseudo-intellectuals like me who hated him for being so smart and insisting that the closed-minded nonsense he publicly spouted all those years was the conclusions of such brilliance) ... (and he was very egotistical about it ... laughing and scoffing at anyone questioning human #1 in several public (televised) discussions) ... but, was it just 70s-80s Bruno (satire)?


OP - I think you may enjoy some of what Steven J. Smith wrote on this...

Originally posted by jim3981
The forums I've been reading lately often include scientists debating health research. Biologists, and other scientists experienced with doing various types of genetic testing (including, but not limited to PCR testing). Some of the scientists believe that viruses and bacteria can modify the way our genetics function, and are trying to prove/disprove that.

One commonality between those forums and here. There seems to be a very well organized group of people, who claim not to believe in the forum topic, but who spend hours trying to convince everybody else there is nothing to see. Surprisingly, many of the de-bunkers seem to have very specific knowledge (Not just drunk high school kids).

Not if they try to make the argument you mentioned above.

See, humans have gotten some of their genetic makeup through lateral transfer from bacteria and viruses.

Abstract
The initial analysis of the human genome draft sequence reveals that our 'book of life' is multi-authored. A small but significant proportion of our genes owes their heritage not to antecedent eukaryotes but instead to bacteria. The publicly funded Human Genome Project study indicates that about 0.5% of all human genes were copied into the genome from bacterial sources. Detailed sequence analyses point to these 'horizontal gene transfer' events having occurred relatively recently. So how did the human 'book of life' evolve to be a chimaera, part animal and part bacterium? And what was the probable evolutionary impact of such gene plagiarism?

Source: (Abstract only)

Originally posted by jim3981

The dots I am connecting may be far apart, or maybe not. Just saying the full time de-bunkers are all over the web.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe these "debunkers," who, by your own estimation, are quite knowledgeable on the subject, are right?

Myself, I started out as a believer. The only reason I'm still volunteering my knowledge at this site is because that is just how pissed I was (and am) that not only was I lied to by fringe authors, I even believed the lies.

That's enough to cause me to fight back against moneygrubbing liars that simply make up their own facts. People like VonDaniken, Sitchen, and the rest of the idiot crew on "Ancient Aliens."

I can't speak for every mainstream voice at this site, but I can say that, at least in the "Ancient Civ" section, there are a lot of people with the same story as mine.

Harte

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