The Sitchin - Catholic Problem

Not sure this thread will be considered to be in the right place. But I felt the issue was evidence of a conspiracy in religion and about religion, so this initially seemed the best place to put it. What it essentially covers is how conspiracies against religions are formed because the adherents often don't know what it says, and when confronted with what it says, they freak out and call you a devilish liar from the pit of hell.

Conversely, atheists and other people who have been taught that papal writs equal what the bible actually says, are often quite irate when you show them the papal writ was not in the bible. They haven't read it for themselves, only the very carefully hand-picked verses and papal statements, used to form their critical view

Anyway, in recent years, quite a few books have been cranked out, taking aim at the foundation of all abrahamic faiths, et.al, the Torah. These texts range from Sitchin's Earth Chronicles to critical works on the various papal interpretations of the biblical texts or simply papal writs/pronouncements, over the last 2000 years.

That's not even counting the critical texts of Zeitgeist, Acharya S., Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons, the writings of various new agers like Helena Blavatsky, and of course, Catholic higher criticism texts, like the Homeric Problem, that gave birth to the Enlightenment. This has muddied up the waters so badly you can even find skeptics who disagree with the same sections of Torah, for entirely different reasons. And they've even begun to form almost religious like fervor against the opposing anti-torah data. Sitchinites vs. Acharaya S. readers, for example.

Add to this mix, different forms of Abrahamic faiths, who are often quite critical of the other forms available, including the mainstream versions and the "cult" versions. It's like trying to determine who really killed JFK, while standing on another planet, wearing ear plugs and blinders and refusing any information that doesn't match exactly, the first view on JFK's death.

To get people to even consider any new data at all, even if they've personally changed their minds 20 times on the subject, is like pulling your own hair out by the roots, one by one. And it isn't just the abrahamic religions that have this problem but the atheists, agnostics, pagans, buddhists, hindus, and etc. In short, humans create huge walls of defense against knowledge, perhaps in fear it might make sense at some level. And it takes a great deal of effort to change even the most insignificant detail, for any side of problem.

What's all this got to do with the Sitchin-Catholic problem? Well it's like this:

When researchers first started to study the theory of evolution, they made some mistakes along the way. These mistakes were recorded for posterity and later used against them by people who didn't agree with evolution, as evidence that evolution is wrong.. This exact same thing happens with subjects like Sitchin's Earth Chronicles, as regards the subject of ancient Sumer. It has gotten to the point where if you even mention "sumerian" anything, people immediately associate it with Sitchin, as if he wrote the sumerian texts and carved their artworks.

In addition, the popes over the years, have made all manner of mistakes in their interpretationa, which bled over to some protestant religions maintaining some of these same mistakes in interpretation, an example being the insistence that 2 of every animal on earth were brought in the ark, when it doesn't say that at all. It says 7 clean animals in pairs. 7 birds in pairs and 2 unclean in pairs. Naturally the papal version and the later protestant versions, keep repeating the "all animals" mistake. Atheists or people of other religions look at this "all animals" story and laugh and for good reason---- it ain't in there. In fact, the word for "all" and "every" were suspiciously missing from strong's translation in that section.

Half the time, believers don't even know what their own texts say. They must've missed the verse that said "study to find yourself worthy." A clear admonition to learn what it says, first hand, not because someone else spoon fed it to you in sunday school or catechism or aaronic priesthood classes.

I thought I would compile a list of falsehoods, some created by catholicism and perpetuated by protestanism that simply aren't in the text, and outline how they are such easy targets for a conspiracy in religion to be realized!

Christmas on December 25th. Christmas is not in the bible. To call this evidence the bible is false, is ludicrous. To defend it as the legitimate date of Christ's birth, is also ludicrous.

The Madonna with Child on Lap. You mean to tell me moms, even famous moms, didn't hold their children on their laps? Sometimes the things that people find conspiratorial are almost as laughable as claiming 2 of every animal on earth, walked onto an ark that mathematically couldn't contain them all, based on the given dimensions of the craft. Math, the language of creation, proves this belief false. Just use your common sense and ability to read. That's what it's there for.

Do images of a mom with her kid prove the kid never lived? The train of logic there is beneath skeptical minds, which bugs me. Either critique it properly, or hop on the ark with every animal on earth stuffed inside it.....somehow, cause that's about how much sense it makes to claim madonna statues prove the bible is false and jesus never existed. Come on, you can do better than that folks.

All animals on the planet, in the Ark. Doh.

The Anunnaki are made up by Sitchin. No, they are not Sitchin just happened to have enough clout to get his work on the subject published. That's the jist of it! He didn't make them up. He just added his interpretation of the data.

The Enuma Elish proves the bible is a copy. No, it does not. It's a shared history, not a copy. How can you acknowledge that semites lived in that time frame, in that area, and yet deny them the same history that was written in the mainstream of the time? It's mindboggling how anybody gets from point A to point B, all the while acknowledging the semitic people were there, and then accuse them later of copycatting their own history. It's illogical, irrational and denotes your inability to recognize what is obvious to everybody else. Whoever is pushing this "copycat" thing is trying to divert attention from something important, as far as I can see, that something is probably the REAL CONSPIRACY in religion.

Clearly the big conspiracy in religion is that human beings of all kinds are hard-headed and exceedingly prejudice.

Sweet! Good on ya! And I can't imagine a better OP left this late evening to say goodnight on. So, goodnight.

Originally posted by The GUT
Sweet! Good on ya! And I can't imagine a better OP left this late evening to say goodnight on. So, goodnight.

short answer.
i want some meat with that glass of milk!
oh well, good night.

reply to post by undo


The more a person gains knowledge...the more it seems that Man has been behind every concept of Religious text that was ever written for any Religion.

A few things that I would like to clarify...I am not an Atheist nor am I religious....I have just seen some real comlex things over the years that lends itself that there is something going on after death. I have seen and experienced these things and they also lend to the concept that Time is not a Linear thing yet everything and action can be accessed through several processes...some I cannot talk about others coming from watching SENSITIVES at work.

When I say Sensitives...I am not talking about your average bunch of people who get together and chant amongst a bunch of Quartz Crystals...I am talking about people who are employed by various Agencies of the United States. Thus...I have been present while incredible acts of Precision by these people have been performed. Curiously...they also think very much like me in that they know that Conciousness can access many interconnectivities in the Multiverse...but they are not religious and are rather introverted. The sure sign of a fake Psycic is one who loves publicity and writes a book.

As far as this topic....arguements over who's religion is right or what this writing says apposed to that other one...is all nonsence created by Man. If there is a GOD...I think all these people arguing would get a good slap.
Split Infinity

The Anunnaki are made up by Sitchin. No, they are not Sitchin just happened to have enough clout to get his work on the subject published. That's the jist of it! He didn't make them up. He just added his interpretation of the data.

reply to post by undo


No, he completely made it up as every person with a P.H.D in ancient Sumerian language has said this. Read what Dr. Mike has to say about Sitchin and his fairytale.

www.sitchiniswrong.com...

Everyone should also read everything Dr. Mike has interpreted of the bible, Including the Divine Council and you will see how miss-interpretation of just one or two words can screw up the meaning of a whole verse or chapter in the bible-torah.

I’m not saying that without an understanding of this issue you can’t comprehend the Bible. I’m saying that without it you can’t comprehend it precisely or fully, or even well. You will inevitably miss out on the context for much of what goes on in the New Testament, a context understood and utilized by the apostles at every turn. Remember back in the introduction when I talked about how the church has been missing the ancient context for its theology for millennia? How we’ve lost the ancient Israelite and first century lenses for understanding what’s going on in the Bible? Well, if the first two chapters haven’t demonstrated that for you, the next few will. Read prayerfully and closely, because you’ll never look at your Bible the same way again once you meet God’s original heavenly family—the sons of God.

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


i am not talking about what he said, i'm talking about what other people say when you mention anything about ancient sumer. ancient sumer was not created by zecharia sitchin.

i'm very aware of michael heiser's data. i've read it many times, and even interviewed him for 2 hours on my own radio show.

sitchin's mistakes do not mean that the texts aren't real! and the next person that tries to tell me that is gonna get a 2 page dissertation on just that thing!

here's my interview with dr. heiser
www.blogtalkradio.com...

reply to post by undo


That's cool. Glad you know his work. Its 4:30 am here and I am not so sharp right now as I don't know why I am still up but I am sure it has something to do with my girlfriend cleaning our bedroom. Why now I don't know but thanks for the interview link.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


oh sorry, missed your post!
i've already been slapped around, thank you very much!
lol

that's the whole point of this. i've been slapped around by even thinking outside the box for 2 seconds, by both sides of the isle and often, many inbetween. and this from people who don't READ what it says. they base most of their data on what someone else told them! i'm here to correct that, cause i'm not fond of being smacked by people who haven't actually studied it. if they have studied it, then i don't mind a pat on the hand or two, but smacking=don't try it buddy. lol

say other people / entities need to abuse me, and we're gonna have problems!

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by undo

 

That's cool. Glad you know his work. Its 4:30 am here and I am not so sharp right now as I don't know why I am still up but I am sure it has something to do with my girlfriend cleaning our bedroom. Why now I don't know but thanks for the interview link.

well, maybe she's preggers or ya know that time of the lunar cycle.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

oh sorry, missed your post!
i've already been slapped around, thank you very much!
lol

that's the whole point of this. i've been slapped around by even thinking outside the box for 2 seconds, by both sides of the isle and often, many inbetween. and this from people who don't READ what it says. they base most of their data on what someone else told them! i'm here to correct that, cause i'm not fond of being smacked by people who haven't actually studied it. if they have studied it, then i don't mind a pat on the hand or two, but smacking=don't try it buddy. lol

say other people / entities need to abuse me, and we're gonna have problems!

Smacking you around? Just stating what I know...the same as you have stated. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

If there is a GOD...I think all these people arguing would get a good slap.

Oh its coming, sooner than later I fear. I am sure most of us will feel that slap, some more than others. Scientist now think the Torah is over ten thousand years old so any reasonable person is going to have a hard time saying that man made it up when a lot of prophecies in it have come true and some look like they will be fulfilled any day.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


well i am here arguing with you and others about it, so yeah......that's your qualification for being smacked around. do you think i'm so dense i don't recognize it as a threat? don't threaten me share your data, argue the context, but threaten me with violence, and i'm gonna get weird.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by undo

 

That's cool. Glad you know his work. Its 4:30 am here and I am not so sharp right now as I don't know why I am still up but I am sure it has something to do with my girlfriend cleaning our bedroom. Why now I don't know but thanks for the interview link.

well, maybe she's preggers or ya know that time of the lunar cycle.

I hope not with the way this country is being flushed down the crapper and negative on the Lunatic cycle. On the other. I try to get as many people reading Mike Heiser stuff as I can because Zac Sitchin has made so many people believe his work its not funny. People here still preach it like its gospel and it makes me want to go beat my forehead on the wall. Not to mention leading people away from God.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

well i am here arguing with you and others about it, so yeah......that's your qualification for being smacked around. do you think i'm so dense i don't recognize it as a threat? don't threaten me share your data, argue the context, but threaten me with violence, and i'm gonna get weird.

OK...first of all...I have been trained not to allow myself to get upset with many types of people in general. You don't know who I am and believe me...you wouldn't want to. It is obvious to me that you have not an idea what real violence is...I do...and I work very hard to prevent it.

As far as your data...it is not your data...it is what you have read or what someone else has written. What I posted was my first hand experience with the exception of the joke at the end because....even though I do not believe in a GOD in the conventional sense...if there was one...I am quite sure this is not what a GOD would want people to do with their time...that being...arguing over text that Men have written.

Do not worry about getting weird...I specialize in that aspect of Humanity. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

When I say Sensitives...I am not talking about your average bunch of people who get together and chant amongst a bunch of Quartz Crystals...I am talking about people who are employed by various Agencies of the United States. Thus...I have been present while incredible acts of Precision by these people have been performed. Curiously...they also think very much like me in that they know that Conciousness can access many interconnectivities in the Multiverse...but they are not religious and are rather introverted.

You also have to understand that God strictly forbid this type of work as it plays right into Satan's hands and lets him fool them. One time he may let them see rock solid info so he can show them something really wrong later or use them for something evil to do what he wants done in the long run.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


i'm familar with the worst kind of violence, the kind done against another individual or group of individuals that leads to the deaths of their bodies by first, driving them slowly insane from swelling in their brain. you wanna compare footnotes? this a spittin' contest?

so like withdraw the slapping around comment so we can have actual conversation like two adults or heet de road.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


erm one problem.
according to jesus, you can heal the sick, walk on water, walk thru walls, move mountains around with the power of your mind, turn water into wine, feed thousands of people with one fish and one loaf of bread, raise the dead, control the weather, speak languages of angels and men, foretell the future, and etc.

so, the qualification is, not the practice but how you are engaging in the practice. do you really need to cast a circle to speak to angels or demons? oh heck no. he didn't. do you really need ritual? nope. you don't. ritual is part of faith building, as is evidenced by mud mixed with spit, or touching robe, etc. did you know the word sorcery is actually pharmacopeia? it's about medicine. oh my gosh there's so much you would benefit from knowing, that they just don't teach you in mainstream texts.

By now, everyone will be familiar with the fact that Sitchin embroidered his translation of the Sumerian Tablets and, imo, set the cause back years.
There was a wonderful organization called "The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature" who made a tremendous effort in translating the tablets but unfortunately they ran out of money in 2006 and, sadly, no work has been done in this field since.
This subject has seen innumerable threads in various forums as well as the well-worn "Conspiracy" theories which can be understood to a certain extent as if, and I repeat IF, these tablets are proven to be authentic in some matters, then religion would go down the gurgler causing absolute and utter chaos throughout the world.
Not a subject to be discussed without creating controversy in many ways but one which will not deter the believers and non-believers to continue to state their case.

Originally posted by OzTiger
By now, everyone will be familiar with the fact that Sitchin embroidered his translation of the Sumerian Tablets and, imo, set the cause back years.
There was a wonderful organization called "The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature" who made a tremendous effort in translating the tablets but unfortunately they ran out of money in 2006 and, sadly, no work has been done in this field since.
This subject has seen innumerable threads in various forums as well as the well-worn "Conspiracy" theories which can be understood to a certain extent as if, and I repeat IF, these tablets are proven to be authentic in some matters, then religion would go down the gurgler causing absolute and utter chaos throughout the world.
Not a subject to be discussed without creating controversy in many ways but one which will not deter the believers and non-believers to continue to state their case.

oh not even remotely! the torah was a history book. people call it religion today because the history it recounts includes incredible details. but even the sumerian texts contain incredible details.
and i love "The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature" ! it's not even remotely mundane. it's full of all manner of interesting things.

for example: the abzu. man are people confused on what that thing is/was. no one, other than perhaps samuel noah kramer (which see) and perhaps sitchin (who thought it was a mine in south africa) have actually done any justice for the word "Abzu."
here's a big hint: it's the abyss, which in the bible is the bottomless pit and abyss as well. used both ways. the egyptians talked about it too. in fact that's what the founding city of dynastic egypt was, abydos. abydos is greek spelling. egyptian is abdju. dj is pronounced z. abzu. what's enki's abzu doing in egypt?

these are things few researchers even bother to find out. and they should. the more we discount the texts of our ancestors, the more in the dark we are about what is going on today. this should bother you greatly. it's a conspiracy in religion.