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Debate audience goes crazy cheering when Gingrich says "We'll kill our enemies."

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posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


There is the quandary have.
I am a Conservative Libertarian.
Paul's Foreign Policy is isolationist, but...................is that worse then US Military members dieing for the freedoms and rights of foreigners?


I'm sorry but it is what it is.

The United States stands with Israel. Anyways has and always will.
All of the complaining will not change anything.




posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Stryc9nine
reply to post by macman
 


you are just a pawn in their little game. nothing more nothing less. to your unit, your life might be important but to them you are just a sacrificial piece. the way we are headed, war with iran is imminent. tell me this, how are they a threat to the us? stop justifying to yourself thinking you are fighting the bad guys. have you ever wondered you might be actually fighting FOR the bad guys?


Who said I was currently fighting?
Lots of assumptions today on ATS.

If Iran gets Nuclear Weapons, then they have the means to back up their threats.
First strike becomes the option.
Never said we should strike without cause.
Geesh, lots of Magic 8 balls working overtime this Tuesday.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


There is the quandary have.
I am a Conservative Libertarian.
Paul's Foreign Policy is isolationist, but...................is that worse then US Military members dieing for the freedoms and rights of foreigners?


I'm sorry but it is what it is.

The United States stands with Israel. Anyways has and always will.
All of the complaining will not change anything.



United States stands with Israel because both countries believe in the same religion! So your right this strong support will most likely remain. These wars are been fought to destroy Islam, to eradicate governments, who'd support this faith and would support groups that dislike Israel. Underneath all this there's centuries of bitter hatred between the peoples from the west and the people from the east.


Arabs citizens= mainly brown skinned/ religion Islam

Americans and Isrealis citizens= mainly white people/ religion Jewish and christen



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by P12SOLD
 


Okay, having said all of that. The United States still stands with Israel.

That will never change.

It is what it is.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Stryc9nine
reply to post by macman
 


you are just a pawn in their little game. nothing more nothing less. to your unit, your life might be important but to them you are just a sacrificial piece. the way we are headed, war with iran is imminent. tell me this, how are they a threat to the us? stop justifying to yourself thinking you are fighting the bad guys. have you ever wondered you might be actually fighting FOR the bad guys?


Who said I was currently fighting?
Lots of assumptions today on ATS.

If Iran gets Nuclear Weapons, then they have the means to back up their threats.
First strike becomes the option.
Never said we should strike without cause.
Geesh, lots of Magic 8 balls working overtime this Tuesday.


I would think Isrealis Arab Neighbours would fear a nuclear Iran more then Israel. Isreal will take out every country in the middle east with nuclear weapons, if any of its cities are attacked with nukes. Its a given trust me. So in reality Iran would be foolish to use one, as that be the end of Iran, being habitable for human life. Same thing goes for the rest of the countries bordering Iran and Israel.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by P12SOLD
 


Kind of like a really big Suicide Bomber, huh?
Yeah, you go ahead and believe that Iran would not do it.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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Im sorry macman , but your way of thinking is warped as is your belief that many who oppose your view are pacifists. I think you would be surprised on how many you label as pacifists would eagerly take up arms if america faced an established enemy that posed a threat to America and not it's business intrests.
The argument that America is fighting a war against terrorism, holds as much water as, if you don't support a war or action you don't suppot the troops. Anyone can be labeled a terrorist. Anyone who accepts and believes a terrorist label has no problem killing women and children and firing on American citizens when asked to.
This is how I view you macman, what option would you choose to kill women and children ?



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Im sorry macman , but your way of thinking is warped as is your belief that many who oppose your view are pacifists.

When did I say that?
Please provide me the quote where I stated this.
Otherwise, just more knee jerk reaction, brought on my dropping your magic 8 ball on your leg.




Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
I think you would be surprised on how many you label as pacifists would eagerly take up arms if america faced an established enemy that posed a threat to America and not it's business intrests.

Again, I never questioned this.
But, Business interests may be just as threatened and cause just as much harm.



Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
The argument that America is fighting a war against terrorism, holds as much water as, if you don't support a war or action you don't suppot the troops.

The I support the troops not the war is about a dumb sounding when typed, as when stated.
The people going to war agreed to the terms. Shed no tear for the American GI, as it was not asked for nor wanted from you.



Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Anyone can be labeled a terrorist.

Yes, and back to the "one mans terrorist" BS. That is nice.



Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Anyone who accepts and believes a terrorist label has no problem killing women and children and firing on American citizens when asked to.

If a person has the means to harm me, then they are threat.




Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
This is how I view you macman, what option would you choose to kill women and children ?

And I care about your view of me why???????
I am a savage. Big deal.
I, as opposed to you, know that my life holds more value then those that want to harm me.
Plain and simple.
And using the style of arguing like "well, since you never said you wouldn't kill a child, then you must therefore like killing children" is about as ridiculous as it gets.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Im sorry macman , but your way of thinking is warped as is your belief that many who oppose your view are pacifists. I think you would be surprised on how many you label as pacifists would eagerly take up arms if america faced an established enemy that posed a threat to America and not it's business intrests.
The argument that America is fighting a war against terrorism, holds as much water as, if you don't support a war or action you don't suppot the troops. Anyone can be labeled a terrorist. Anyone who accepts and believes a terrorist label has no problem killing women and children and firing on American citizens when asked to.
This is how I view you macman, what option would you choose to kill women and children ?


Bingo. It's going to be a long haul to peace and a bumpy ride, but with no moral compass of life and death and freedom to equal rights, it's going to FAIL over and over. We need a paradign shift in comunicating with others. I am not against fighting when all other possible routes have failed, but only after both sides stances have been thoroughly vetted, or an attack has been made upon us and no other choice is left.

In the case of Adminajhad (sp?) and Iran, do we really know them well enough to understand where they are coming from? We only hear snippets, that really don't tell a whole story. And is it even our right to be the decision makers of who gets to do what? Do we all really believe in freedom and equality or do we believe only in our own right to this? Does the country that bred the biggest dogs, now get to claim he is the standard for all dogs?

Alright, stepping off my stump.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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If someone threatened to destroy my family, I would very much consider seeking them out and settling the matter before they jeopardized my household. However, I would seek to do so by the law. If they were in the direct act of attacking me, I would settle the matter by the direct act of attacking them, but if they were in the act of living out actions which increased their threat to my family, I would abide by the law and have them arrested.

There is no excuse to shoot, in the head, someone who we should have captured except that the priority of our leaders was silencing the targets.

The reality is that wielding so much influence causes offense to others easily. We can either restrain ourselves and be meek (while maintaining a strong defense), or we can restrain those who are angered by our conduct and continue our self-destructive bloodlust.

To think that we will not reap what we sow is foolishness. What about our economic crisis is not evident? What about our social crises are not evident?

We are snuffing out small fires in fear of loosing our home, but, in the process, we have left the stove on and our kitchen is catching fire.
edit on 1/17/2012 by Dasher because: grammar and tense correction



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by macman
What is the problem?
In warfare, you kill your enemy.
I want my dangerous enemies dead.
Don't see the issue here.


Who are our enemies again? Anyone labeled a "Terrorist" + Iranians? Chinese? Russians? Libyans? Egyptians? Syrians? Venezuelans? Cubans?

Anyone that threatens the US.
Very simple.


Oh, well ok. In my opinion that would be politicians and the corporations that control them.

Shall we go to war and kill all politicians and corporations... well you know corporations are people too.

I am sick of war, and I am sick of those who support war. As far as I am concerned, anyone anywhere who supports war has a mental illness and should be on pharmaceutical drugs and live in a mental institution.

wait... that is what this world has become, a mental institution run by the inmates.

.
.
.

sigh... never mind... perhaps I myself just need more pharmaceutical drugs just to live in this asylum without going crazy.

Harm None
Peace



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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You know macman your moral compass is broken.
You really need to chanel your anger , frustration and hunger for killing into a good and honorable cause.
And I got one for ya.
Lawyers claim it's a real gold mine!

These Federal Organizations claim that an ex-spouse is not entitled to receive Disability Benefits from the disabled veteran as of the last day of the month in which the divorce is granted. Congress has passed bills to protect these benefits from being turned over to ex-spouses. U.S. Supreme Courts have found that Federal Law precludes State's from usingthese Disability Benefits to calculate amount of spousal support to beordered by clarifying that "Only Disposable Income from Military Retirementand/or Retained can be used to calculate spousal support". That if Disposable Retirement or Retainer pay has been used to calculate "spousal support" and the Veteran does not meet his obligation then Social Security Disability Benefits can be garnished.

How is it that Divorce courts in a number states are getting by with ordering these Disabled Veterans to pay "Spousal Support from Veterans Disability Benefits" and are getting by with it and are being allowed to garnish Social Security Disability Benefits when attorney's tell the Veteran's that because of Federal law courts can't do this?

How is it that the courts are being allowed to do this and NO ONE is willing to help the Veterans that are the ones that fought for their country and were injured in the line of duty?

In response, The Department of Veterans Affairs says

"We cannot speak for Social Security but upon divorce, the spouse is removed form the veteran's award. Divorce decrees differ by state and I advised you to check with a divorce lawyer in your state to see if VA disabilities benefits can be garnished. Thank you for contacting us. If you have questions or need additional help with the information in our reply, please respond to this message. If at some future time we can help you on a different subject, you may submit a new inquiry at iris.va.gov..., call us toll free at 1-800-827-1000, or visit our web site at www.va.gov.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE
 

While frustrating in nature, your retort was basically off topic.

There is nothing wrong with my Moral compass.
You, pass judgement very quickly, with almost no knowledge to who I am or what I have done.

My focuses are just fine.

Your armchair therapist attempt is almost as bad as your assumptions.

But, keep trying, as it is amusing.

Oh, and please show my quote, statement or any proof that I "hunger for killing".
I will await your response in providing some sort of proof, but do not expect anything but a nonsense retort or some backpeddling by you in a vain attempt to justify your response.



edit on 17-1-2012 by macman because: Additon



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by P12SOLD
 


Kind of like a really big Suicide Bomber, huh?
Yeah, you go ahead and believe that Iran would not do it.


Thats a false analogy. And, what prove have you got to show Iran would fire first upon Israel, if it had a nuclear weapon? Israel, it seems is carrying out covert actions inside Iran. Has Iran been as belligerent, as Israel?
edit on 17-1-2012 by P12SOLD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by P12SOLD

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by P12SOLD
 


Kind of like a really big Suicide Bomber, huh?
Yeah, you go ahead and believe that Iran would not do it.


Thats a false analogy. And, what prove have you got to show Iran would fire first upon Israel, if it had a nuclear weapon? Israel, it seems is carrying out covert actions inside Iran. Has Iran been as belligerent, as Israel?
edit on 17-1-2012 by P12SOLD because: (no reason given)


I am not going to do your research.
There are many quotes for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and other groups stating they would strike if given the opportunity.
And yes, Iran has been on the covert, just like other countries.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


Not asking for a lot of research out of you, but could you show me one statement where they say they would strike first. Thanks.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by SunnyDee
reply to post by macman
 


Not asking for a lot of research out of you, but could you show me one statement where they say they would strike first. Thanks.

www.ynetnews.com...

First several paragraphs say enough for me.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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I'm just making sure here, everybody in this thread understands the CIA concept of BLOWBACK, correct?

If not, you seriously need to do some research first before supporting the wasting of another dollar or soldier's life into these wars.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


What was off-topic ? Suggesting you champion a cause for disabled veterans ?
So many politicians like Newt wrap themselfs in the american flag when it comes selling the american public on war and supporting the troops I could vomit. Newt never served, but he's got your number and others who think like you. Where is all the flag waving and support from the politicians when our troops come home ? Where is the sadness, anger and frustation from the politicians at the high rate of homelessness of our vets or the F+@#ing
suicide rate of troops who have returned home ?
Your right my view of you means nothing, but the portrait youv'e painted of youself is very clear.
Read the whole thread through, not just your posts but those who respond to your posts .
Your moral compass is broken and your so far gone you don't see it and you are a perfect example of an american soldier who would not hesitate to fire on american citizens, if ordered to.
edit on 17-1-2012 by OLD HIPPY DUDE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
reply to post by macman
 


What was off-topic ? Suggesting you champion a cause for disabled veterans ?
So many politicians like Newt wrap themselfs in the american flag when it comes selling the american public on war and supporting the troops I could vomit. Newt never served, but he's got your number and others who think like you. Where is all the flag waving and support from the politicians when our troops come home ? Where is the sadness, anger and frustation from the politicians at the high rate of homelessness of our vets or the F+@#ing
suicide rate of troops who have returned home ?
Your right my view of you means nothing, but the portrait youv'e painted of youself is very clear.
Read the whole thread through, not just your posts but those who respond to your posts .
Your moral compass is broken and your so far gone you don't see it and you are a perfect example of an american solider who would not hesitate to fire on american citizens, if ordered to.


Oh, so here it is in plain English.
The topic is about the audience.
Not about veteran's rights when dealing with divorce.
I never stated I backed Newt.
And your reply does not address my statements.
Oh well.
Again, please provide me quotes, statements or proof that back your wild claims.

And another assumption that I would fire on American Citizens.
You, have not a clue do you.

Ok then, sure sure.

Oh, and I really see no value in your evaluation of My Moral Compass.
Maybe instead, come off your high horse incorrect guesses about me, and either learn a little or just ask, before you go about making yourself look like a fool.


I will give you the entire night to research and provide any proof to back your claims.
Or, will you just deflect and attack on something else?
I bet the latter will happen.



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