Indian Air Force vs. Pakistani Air Force

rajkhalsa2004

Not to burst your buble buddy, but you are wrong on almost all accounts. The COPE India exercises WERE BVR engagements. The US WAS outnumbered. The list goes on and on.

To see how wrong you are, check out this thread

The Indian AF beats the USAF: Not ! The Real Story Behind The Cope India Exersize

Oh wow,the Indian airforce can beat the USAF...Let them be engrossed in their own wishful thinking,while we "deny ignorance".No need to argue when they ignore all the facts.

Also,the USAF has had plenty of experience in previous wars while the IAF had almost no experience execpt for the pakistan wars,which is a completely different thing.The USAF also has better equipment,we are talking F-22s,B-2s,and even F-15Cs with AESAs.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
rajkhalsa2004

Not to burst your buble buddy, but you are wrong on almost all accounts. The COPE India exercises WERE BVR engagements. The US WAS outnumbered. The list goes on and on.

To see how wrong you are, check out this thread

The Indian AF beats the USAF: Not ! The Real Story Behind The Cope India Exersize

Um. No.

Perhaps you can review my post of page 6 of that thread, second to last on the page?

I can repost that post here, if you want to discuss it here instead of on that thread?


W4rl0rD,
Once again putting (inane) words in other peoples mouthes. I don't bother refuting strawman arguments.


Regards,
Raj

An exercise using restricted warfare is nothing.


Put your money where your mouth is man,I'd love to see a Mirage or Su-30MKI kill a F-15C in BVR combat,UNRESTRICTED WARFARE.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
An exercise using restricted warfare is nothing.

Put your money where your mouth is man,I'd love to see a Mirage or Su-30MKI kill a F-15C in BVR combat,UNRESTRICTED WARFARE.

An exercise not using restricted warfare is NOT AN EXERCISE.

Sadly, to you apparently, anyway, India has no plans to invade the States anytime in the near future, and I'm hoping its the same vice-versa

-Raj

It would definetely not happen,but the scenario is unrealistic,i wouldn't bet what happened in this exercise happened in real life.


PS:ATS Points: 666

You're at 676 now

[edit on 4-12-2004 by rajkhalsa2004]

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004

Originally posted by American Mad Man
rajkhalsa2004

Not to burst your buble buddy, but you are wrong on almost all accounts. The COPE India exercises WERE BVR engagements. The US WAS outnumbered. The list goes on and on.

To see how wrong you are, check out this thread

The Indian AF beats the USAF: Not ! The Real Story Behind The Cope India Exersize

Um. No.

Perhaps you can review my post of page 6 of that thread, second to last on the page?

I can repost that post here, if you want to discuss it here instead of on that thread?


W4rl0rD,
Once again putting (inane) words in other peoples mouthes. I don't bother refuting strawman arguments.

Regards,
Raj

I read your post, the problem is IT IS WRONG!

The US WAS outnumbered. The IAF had AWACS coverage, even if the Migs radar was equal to the US radar. Their missles were "fire and forget" while the US missles were not. Just eat the crow, it tastes just like chicken

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I read your post, the problem is IT IS WRONG!

The US WAS outnumbered. The IAF had AWACS coverage, even if the Migs radar was equal to the US radar. Their missles were "fire and forget" while the US missles were not. Just eat the crow, it tastes just like chicken

ad nauseum???

Point #1 The IAF did NOT use fire and forget missiles. All reports of the ex stated clearly that the IAF used the R-27, not R-77. The only IAF ac capable of even using the R-77 would be the Bison,. The F-15s did simulate Amraams, first-hand reports from the pilots clearly state.

Furthermore, the rules of the exercise specifically restricted the range of missiles of both countries to 20mi max. range necessitating for missile constant illumination of the target, i.e semi-active mode only even for active, non-restricted AAMs. So even if everyone and their uncle had been simulating fire and forget missiles, the range restrictions would have ensured that no one can actually employ them as such!


Point #2 Yes! The USAF was outnumbered by very virtue of exercise training in a foreign host country!

HOWEVER, as reports stated, in Red v. Blue missions, both USAF and IAF planes, acting in alternative missions in the role of interceptors guarding Gwalior AFB against attack ac with escorts, were both outnumbered by the attacking team! Points were scored on how successful the attacking aircraft got to the base.

So YES, USAF were outnumbered by IAF jets of the OPFOR, but so where the IAF Su-30s in the same role when they switched roles! Yet, the IAF outperformed -- i.e. success rate of IAF jets was still greater than that of -- the USAF flyboys!

And besides Four F-15Cs with the aim-120s means, even with range limitations, that they could shoot 4-8 targets per jet. The Mirage or Su-30K can engage one target at a time with the sarh R-27. This, plus the more advanced radar on the F-15s, actually would tilt the advantage over to the USAF, making IAF victories even more commendable, no?


Point #3 Why does this even have to be said?: The IAF does not have any AWACS. I wish they did, but this is fact. As is that a USAF awacs did not fly in with the -15s.

News reports clearly state that an IAF An-32 (transport!) participated in the exercise as a simulated awacs. The type of exercises they performed would suggest that it was used as a 'target', like Gwalior AFB, in attack/intercept missions.


I ask again. Did you even read my post?

-Raj

In the recent joint exercises conducted between the Indian and US airforces the American pilots never (and I mean NEVER) allowed to fly any of the Su 30MKI in service with the Indian airforce. I don't know who posted that earlier report but believe me his information is totally baseless. There were numerous reports surrounding these joint exercises, but not one of them mentioned that any American pilots were allowed to fly any of the Su 30's, let me also state that there was a fair ammount of negative tension generated due to the fact that the U.S. pilots wern't even allowed to go anywhere near the Indian airforces latest aquisition (Su-30MKI).
Let me also just set the record straight regarding the tech specs of the Su 30MKI, the engines comprise of Lyulka AL-31FP thrust vectoring turbofans acheiving super agility - (initially they were considering using the Al-37FU powering the ulta maneuverable Su-37) - This system allows the Su-30MKI to have no limits in its angle of attack even at zero speeds. It is able to achieve a max speed of 2545 km/ph (thats mach 2.5!) It is the only plane in the world that can preform the super cobra manoeuvers which no other aircraft in the world with the exception of the Su-37 can preform) It has a range of approximately 4500 km, and with inflight refueling it can extend its range to 6200 km. Its fitted with multifunction, forward looking, NO-10M pulse doppler phased array radar, which can track up to 25 targets simultaneously. Last but most importantly it is equipped with the new BrahMos super-cruise missile.
Comparing the Su 30MKI with the F-15E I would definately say the Su 30MKI would outclass the F-15E (and varients) in just about every aspect of air to air or air to ground warfare. Hey the Su 30MKI would hammer the F-16's and the F-18 too - Don't even compare the current generation of U.S aircraft to the Su 30MKI / Su-37 for the two versions of Sukhoi's I mentioned are a class and generation above the rest!) Infact let me goes as far as to say the Su-30MKI / Su-37 are even far supperior to the F-22 "Raptor" in terms of super-maneuverablity.

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567


An average US pilot is better than the best Indian AF pilot. No one (besides Israel) comes close to the US in terms of pilot training, so don't compare this.

What rubbish in the recent joint exercises conducted between the Indian airforce and their American counterparts, the Indian's white washed the US 9-0!!!!!

If you mean the post where it was stated that they alternated between being defenders and attackers, it was never stated that they swapped aircraft, only roles.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
At least we don't lose 1 aircraft a week

If we lost aircraft at that rate,surely some of the media would know

Numbers don't matter you say?For every 1 Su-30 you have we would have 10.We would have more planes than you had missles.


[edit on 2/11/04 by W4rl0rD]

Hey!! Are you dumb??!! Outside of the former USSR - in particular Russia and Ukraine, it is a well known fact that India operates the most Sukhoi's (Su-30MKI) India currently has more Su 30's in service than China, and besides we are scheduled to recieve an additional 240 by the year 2012!!!

[edit on 13-12-2004 by eastern_block]

Originally posted by eastern_block
Hey!! Are you dumb??!!

Please refrain from this type of posting. We aspire to be better than the average site here at ATS.

Eastern,i would love to see your source on that.India's Su-30 MKIs NOW are currently just Su-30MKs with avonics and trust velctoring,and they hardly have close to 400 of those even by the time the Russians finish shipping them.

My good man "W4rl0rD" India has just finished recieving the last shipment for a batch of 50 they initially orderd in '96 or of which 20 of the aircraft have been upgraded to the MKI status. And yes India will recieve a total of 240 additional Su 30 (MKI configuration) by the year 2012 which will be manufactured in India by HAL under Russian license. Incase you forgot there were two arms contract signed betwen the leadership of both nations, in 2000, and 2002. And if ever put to the test I'm sure the Indian airforce would wipe out or atleast neutralize the Chinese airforce with relative ease.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by eastern_block]

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by eastern_block
Hey!! Are you dumb??!!

Please refrain from this type of posting. We aspire to be better than the average site here at ATS.

Awww..c'mon I like it when people call each other 'dumb' or 'you idiot!!'
I got a warning for calling soume onea twit!!

And the Su-30staht India has...50 of them are now certified MKIs..The first completely indigenous MKI rolled out a cpl of weeks ago..I know..I live in Pune...IAF Su-30MKI town!!

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Daedalus3]

here are some performance charts for you all







make your minds up from those

A SU-30MKI is basically an upgraded Su-27 Flanker.I'd say the turn rates will be just slightly less than the typhoon.