Indian Air Force vs. Pakistani Air Force

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posted on Sep, 12 2004 @ 05:44 PM
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Third biggest international air force rivalry. And a hostile political environment too!

India is actually one of the only two nations capable of maintaining their fleet of Russian-built fighters. Good ones too. From the primative MiG-17 "Fresco" to the Su-30 "Flanker."

Then there's Pakistan, using American-built F-16As, and what else?

Thoughts? Who's better? What are the advantages?




posted on Sep, 12 2004 @ 06:07 PM
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The Indian AF hands down. Packistan only has 32 of the F-16 a/b and both are block 15's (they blew it by doing thier tit-tat nuke blast. The US promised them if they refrained, they would sell them more 16's, 140 Mirage 3/5's (mostly 3's), and about 60 Mig17/19's

India on the other hand has:
about 230 Mig 21's of various types
about 65 Mig-29's
about 28 SU-30's of various types
about 5 Mig25R's
about 35 Mirage 2000's

Just on numbers alone India should mop the floor, factor in airborne controll and it beomes a turkey shoot.



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 09:26 PM
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after India's su-30 ****ed US F-15..... i would say India would ** pakistan as well.



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 10:00 PM
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India would win hands down.

BTW Titus, it is well known now that the F-15s used in that exercise were not equiped with the radar that all front line US F-15s are. It was a ploy to get more F-22s most likely...



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
India would win hands down.

BTW Titus, it is well known now that the F-15s used in that exercise were not equiped with the radar that all front line US F-15s are. It was a ploy to get more F-22s most likely...


Radar is largely ineffective in ACM.

So radar's a poor excuse.


[edit on 14-9-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
[Radar is largely ineffective in ACM.

So radar's a poor excuse.


[edit on 14-9-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]


EEEEH try again please. if you guys actually read the article, the engagments were made in the BVR arena so radar is relevant. The IAF's radar on thier SU-30's had a greater range thus they were able to launch first. Thats the critiera BTW for thier victory. If the F-15's been equiped with the new ESRA they would have shot first and won based on the narrow criteria of the exersize.

Next



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 03:38 AM
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Exactly.

Everyone loves to hate on America, but the fact is that in the A2A department we are as close to unbeatable as anyone has ever been.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 04:20 AM
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I would say India they have some very well trained pilots and better numbers of planes.
[edit on 14-9-2004 by ShadowXIX]

[edit on 14-9-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 04:46 AM
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You forgot the AWACS india recently acquired.

Also india recently recieved an order of 60 more Su-30MKI's



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 04:49 AM
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Here is the complete list of the pakistani AF inventory. These planes and their numbers are nothing but CRAP

KEY>> Name, Number, Role


F-16A 21 Multi-Role Air Superiority fighter
F-16B 11 Advanced Trainer and wartime ground-attack fighter
F-7MP 155 Air superiority fighter and Interceptor
FT-7MP 15 Advanced Trainer and wartime ground-attack fighter
F-7 PG 55 Multi-Role Air Superiority fighter and Interceptor
Mirage III O 43 Air superiority interceptor and ground-attack fighter
Mirage III OD 7 Advanced Trainer and wartime ground-attack fighter
Mirage III E 40 Air superiority interceptor and ground-attack fighter
Mirage III EP 18 Air superiority interceptor and ground-attack fighter
Mirage III DP 2 Advanced Trainer and wartime ground-attack fighter
Mirage 5 58 Air superiority interceptor, ground-attack and anti-ship fighter
Mirage 5B 4 Advanced Trainer and wartime ground-attack fighter
A-5C 48 Ground-attack/strike aircraft
K-8 Karakorum 6+ Advanced Jet Trainer and wartime light attack fighter
FT-6 15 Jet Fighter Conversion Trainer and wartime ground-attack fighter
FT-5 25 Jet-Fighter Conversion Trainer and wartime light attack fighter
T-37 'Tweet' 20 Basic Trainer (Jet)
MFI-395 Super Mushak 20+ Primary Trainer (Turbo-prop)
MFI-17 'Mushak' 80+ Primary Trainer (Turbo-prop)
Mirage IIIRP 12 Reconnaissance aircraft.
Falcon DA-20 2 ELINT / ECM
CN-235-220 (Another three By Dec 2004) 1 Light Transport/Surveillance Aircraft
C-130B/E/Hercules 20 Heavy Tactical Transport
Boeing 707 3 VIP/Light Transport
HAMC Y-12 (II) 1 Light Tactical Transport/General Utility
Antonov An-26 1 Medium Tactical Transport
Fokker F-27 200 2 Light Transport/General Utility
Falcon 20 1 VIP Transport
Super King Air 1 Light Transport
Bonanza 1 Light Transport
L-100 1 Light Transport
Alouette III 12 Attack and general utility helicopter
SA 330 Puma Unknown Attack and general utility helicopter


Source : www.pakistanidefence.com...



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 04:52 AM
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The indian af can not only rip Pakistan out of the sky but they can beat china with equal ease.

The IAF has more numbers than china, better tech and weapons than china and better pilots than china



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:07 AM
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Fiza'ya F-16, J-6 (Chinese MiG-19), Q-5 Fantan and a Mirage



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:10 AM
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Inida's Su-30 MKI is essentially an Su-37.

Read more vayu-sena.tripod.com...



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:17 AM
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On April 29,1987 2 PAF F-16s were scambled to intercept a strike package on a mission to interdict Pakistan supported Mujahideen (Islamic Mercenary) operations that were launched against the Soviet troops and the pro-Soviet afganistan government. The battle resulted in a F-16 kill for Pakistan and the official explanation has been that the pilot (who ejected safely) was shot down by his own wingman.

On April 29,1987, L/C Pochitalkin led a flight of four MiG-23s to mine mountain path under Mujahedeen control in the Djavara region,to the south of Host. These routes were used to supply weapons and ammunition to the dykhi(ghosts-Russian translation of Farsi 'dyshman' meaning bandit) who blockaded the town. The strikes delivered 1,100lb(500 kg) bombs onto the highland passes effectively blocking the way for the arms caravans. The MiG-23s were usually armed with up to four KMGU (Ronteyner Malogabaritnyh Gruzov - small weapon container) each carrying 24 anti-personal mines.


PAF F-16s: Own Goal?

At the place where the Griffons would have to 'work' (meaning 'to execute an order' in the Russian Air Force), Mujahedeen had many and varied air defence weapons including Chinese built 12.7mm DShK machine guns, and 20mm Oerlicon guns with a range of 6600 ft. And from 1986, Dykhi used General Dynamics' Stinger shoulder-mounted surface-to-air missile (SAM), with a range of 11,550 ft to defend thier main bases. These would have to be destroyed and the flight group leader decided upon the following mission: fly to the target at 26,400 ft, and just before reaching it, dive to 1,320 ft and toss the bombs while climbing, then enter a 90 degree left rolling climb to 23,100 ft. Such tactics would avoid entering Mujahedeen air defence space.

Early on the morning of April 29, four MiG-23s got airborne from Bagram. Meteorological conditions were difficult with multiple cloud layers, known as puff pie, starting at 9,900 ft up to 33,000 ft. The monotonous highland terrain also complicated orientation, but L/C Pochitalkin was an experienced pilot - he regularily led four to eight Griffons during combat missions. Just before the target area, he managed to find his bearings by the little town of Tani, to the south of Host. The three MiGs folloed him closely. The war had provided pilots with the opportunity to gain considerable experience of formation flying, so they are really tight.

Just before the taget, the MiGs descended, then during the steep climb released their bombs and, keeping close formation, climbed left into a combat turn leaving the battle course at 90 to 100 degrees. Having reached 21,450 ft, the flight leader lokked back, and between the clouds saw a flying torch-like flame. Thingking it could be a plane from his group, L/C Pochitalkin turned his MiG aroung and called to his wingman. All three pilots responded immediately that they were OK. The flight leader reported to base that he had seen a burning aircraft, and Major Osipenko, the regiment's intelligence officer, flying in the trailing aircraft, confirmed this. Then L/C Pochitalkin banked left vectoring onto the torch. Suddenly, all the MiG pilots saw an F-16 Fighting Falcon appear from heavy clouds at 13,200 ft, it made a steep bank round its burning co-partner, engaged the afterburner, and disappeared into the clouds, heading for Pakistan territory. On the way home, the airwaves were alive with the questions about the incident to the flight leader.


After landing at Bagram, L/C Pocjitalkin told that his group had been attacked by a pair of Paistan Air Force F-16s and one F-16 was shot down. Later this report was confirmed by Had, Afghanistan intelligence, an offshoot of the Soviet KGB (and a very effective servvice). It reported that the F-16 pilot ejected safely, landing in a rebel controlled region - he was transferred to Pakistan that night. Later, wreckage from the Falcon was also transferred.

Throughout the analysis of the incident, one major question remained unanswered - how was the F-16 was shot down, when the Griffons were not armed with missles. Three possiblities were considered by the committee.

The first, and the most likely, was that the F-16 met the rain of bomb mines on its rising trajectory and blew up. The Falcons probably took off from Kamra Air Base, near Miranshah. Kamra is situated so close to the Afghan border that the F-16 could launch their Sidewinders immediately after getting airborne. PAF pilots intended to intercept Soviet fighters at high altitudes, assuming that they would be dive bombing, but on that day the Griffons'worked' on the climb, and steeply descended before the attack. At that moment, the F-16 could have slipped forward and become caught up in the 'cloud' of bombs.

The second version suggested that during pursuit, the F-16 came upon the climbing MiGs, and trying to avoid them, the Pakistan pilot jerked the plane into a sharp bank and exceeded the maximum g-load.

The final thoery was that the Falcon could have been shot down by his wingman. Intercepting th MiGs from the aft hemisphere, the F-16s tracked them on their radar up to the point where they released their bombs. But when the close formation Griffons carried out drastic flak evasion manoeuvers, the F-16s had to carry out the turn and the wingman may have hurriedly fired his Sidewinders accidently hitting his leader.


Source: vayu-sena.tripod.com...





posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:18 AM
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Interview with PAF squadron leader : vayu-sena.tripod.com...



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Inida's Su-30 MKI is essentially an Su-37.

Read more vayu-sena.tripod.com...


one thing - su-30 is more maneuverable than su-37.
second - su-30 came out later, thus its better than su-37



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
EEEEH try again please. if you guys actually read the article, the engagments were made in the BVR arena so radar is relevant. The IAF's radar on thier SU-30's had a greater range thus they were able to launch first. Thats the critiera BTW for thier victory. If the F-15's been equiped with the new ESRA they would have shot first and won based on the narrow criteria of the exersize.

Next


Hey, no problem here! Made a mistake, no harm done.

Let's send it back to Guy, now.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Exactly.

Everyone loves to hate on America, but the fact is that in the A2A department we are as close to unbeatable as anyone has ever been.


More like you like to hate on other countries!


The fact is, America hasn't really faced an evenly-matched foe or superior hostiles, so it's hard to judge at this point whether them being unbeatable is simply because we're that good or because it's just us taking advantage of the inferiority of other nations' air forces.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
India would win hands down.

BTW Titus, it is well known now that the F-15s used in that exercise were not equiped with the radar that all front line US F-15s are. It was a ploy to get more F-22s most likely...


While I don't think it was a ploy to get the F-22 (others may disagree), the F-15's had many handicaps and were outnumbered, in a real life situation, I would put my money on the F-15C over the Su-30MK/MKK/MKI.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Exactly.

Everyone loves to hate on America, but the fact is that in the A2A department we are as close to unbeatable as anyone has ever been.


Couldn't have said it better myself.





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