Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

reply to post by WeissRitter


Give me examples of where I've been 'banging the drum' against The Scots or where I've been anti-Irish.

Also, it seems it's perfectly ok to show Scottish, Irish or any other nationalism but the minute anyone shows any sort of English nationalism they are immediately condemned.

Hypocrisy and double standards of the highest order.

reply to post by Freeborn


England mass murdered millions of Irish so you have to repay the Irish.Irish people are good and clear hearted people unlike England the 'Butcher of nations' and home to the devil Rothschild.

reply to post by Laurauk

Cameron and co want the referendum in 2014.

Cheers Laura,
Someone else pointed that out.

But at least we agree about both Cameron and Clegg being top twats! lol

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


Absolutely. Although Scotland has around 8% of the population it receives around 10% of the pot - therefore i feel that figure would be fair. Although i would wager that Mr Salmond may argue the point!

Still, i hope it doesn't come to that......

reply to post by Flavian


North sea fields belong to Scotland.Not England.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


Well, I'm amazed it took 28pages until you piped in with your usual anti-English bile and hatred.

If such bigotry was directed towards any other nationality the majority of ATS would be up in arms, but apparently it's ok when directed towards the English.
But most of us have broad shoulders and thick skin.

Thanks to the members who recognised that I've tried to be respectful throughout this debate.

I'll be in Glasgow in a few weeks time having a few pints and a bit of craic with some mates, the more the merrier.

reply to post by Flavian


Although I may have a slightly different view of what Scotland receives from 'the pot' and how 'the pot' is calculated, I don't think we need to argue about it. Should it come to it, an arrangement will be negotiated and secured.

Scotland's share of the national 'debt' to the Bank of England/World Bank/IMF is the least of my worries.

Even as a SNP member, I would suggest that a referendum held now would narrowly preserve the Union. In 33 months time - it's going to be close.

reply to post by Laurauk


You are of course correct in everything you said and I am sorry if my words caused offence to any member reading them.

As is plainly obvious, I can be a complete moron at 3am and again I apologise.

For my part I just got sick of the unwarranted attacks on Freeborn who has always been a very inteligent and all round moderating voice on these boards and someone I have great respect for.

However that is no excuse and he is old enough and ugly enough to take care of himself.

On my own part, after a few hours sleep and some cringing at my own words, I still believe in the union.

However if the Scots vote against it then that is their choice.

You never know, it may even eliviate the hate in some and smooth a few few chips off other people shoulders.. Maybe even bring about a more healthy relationship between all of the people of this island.

But I still say we are stronger together.

And hope we can work together to get rid of the wankers that lead us on both sides of the border!

reply to post by Freeborn


Freeborn, we almost see it as a duty to stick up for you - after all, in the North East you're just actually Scotsmen with your brains kicked out

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


I genuinely hope you are wrong and that it is a landslide to stay in the Union.

Just out of interest though, what is your take on independence? I do not mean the actual act itself or anything, more the specific areas......for example, should Scotland have its' own armed forces or remain part of the UK armed forces?

Would you need a passport to come to England? Daft as that sounds, i genuinely have no idea. I mean, at the moment, in theory you would as entrance to the EU would not be automatic, you would have to go through a holding period the same as every other nation that wants in to the EU

From this news article:

The tensions over the referendum issue even spilled over into whether the Scots would be able to keep the two giant pandas loaned by China to Edinburgh Zoo.

The Chinese have made it clear that the bears are ‘a gift to the people of the UK’.

If Scotland becomes independent, some say Tian Tian and Yang Guang might have to leave the country.

Wow this is alreday getting extremely petty. Even including the pandas now! The Scottish Gov are the ones that subsidise the pandas. If 'some people' are that worried then they can speak to China about getting their own bloody pandas.

Sheesh!

I did post earlier but it dissapeared.

Despite what alot of scots , welsh and Irish think ,the British empire was built of the backs of the common man , those that worked the land and sailed the seas , taking the british empire and its trade with it.
Did they benefit no , it was the lords of the day in big houses reaping the benefits of their slaves!
the magna carta didnt give them any real rights under their king .

Fast forward and here we are still with no rights and the rich still taking from us and giving us nothing.
We are stronger together than apart, we can still keep our national identity and culture.
However as mentioned we need to federalise our government , into regional powers and give the people of Britian a real consitution and bill of rights.

We have to learn from our history or we are doomed to repeat it as is the current status quo.
We need heavy political reforms , and social reforms.

We need to invest in research and development of future technology , in energy and industry
and be the leading power in europe , create a working model for others to mimmic!

the British nation has always been a union of nations whos people have led the world in every aspect.
we can still be that union of nations and be better !

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by YeshuaPiso

 

I genuinely hope you are wrong and that it is a landslide to stay in the Union.

Just out of interest though, what is your take on independence? I do not mean the actual act itself or anything, more the specific areas......for example, should Scotland have its' own armed forces or remain part of the UK armed forces?

Would you need a passport to come to England?

Daft as that sounds, i genuinely have no idea. I mean, at the moment, in theory you would as entrance to the EU would not be automatic, you would have to go through a holding period the same as every other nation that wants in to the EU

The armed forces issue is a tricky one but I am in regular contact with a former Colonel who 'has the ear' of the SNP executive and advises on military matters.

Scotland will have it's own armed forces. The intention (should independence happen) is to reconstitute the old Scottish infantry regiments which were amalgamated by the last government. There would be consultation on what happens to the current Royal Regiment of Scotland, right down to individual soldiers, ie. do you want to remain in the UK army or join the new Scottish Defence Force. This may be a long, drawn out process that exists beyond independence by some years.

In terms of a navy, it is anticipated that Scotland shall have a small naval force consisting mainly of fishery protection, oil/gas installation protection vessels, coastguard vessels with some smaller frigates.

Air force wise - a small air defence squadron and air and sea rescue units. Possibly a small ASW unit.

As you would expect, civil servants being civil servants, contingency plans have been drawn up and possible scenarios considered. Just as Scotland would assume a proportion of national 'debt', they would also assume a proportion of defence materiel - ie. tanks, APCs etc.

Military co-operation with the Rest of the UK is a given. Joint exercises etc.

As far as Scotland is concerned - no changes at the border. Changes may occur on the southern side. Our immigration policy is likely to be slightly less restrictive because of our declining population, so the rest of the UK may wish to introduce some loose controls.

EU membership. Technically both parties post-split would have to re-apply for membership as the integral body that was a member, the United Kingdom, would no longer exist. In reality, membership would effectively be unbroken. The EU wish to collect rather than reject members - to think they would reject one of the major nations of Europe and net contributor (rest of the UK), and Scotland (one of Europe's major oil and gas producers) is frankly unthinkable.

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


Well im seriously hoping that if we do go independent we revise our laws on crimes such as knife crime for repeat offenders and loosen our laws on drugs
more to the point like portugal where drugs are not illegal. Even stretch to having license to produce drugs or drugs are manufactured and sold being taxed to generate large revenue

Control it and reduce crime but tax it and make it work financially !

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by YeshuaPiso

 

Well im seriously hoping that if we do go independent we revise our laws on crimes such as knife crime for repeat offenders and loosen our laws on drugs
more to the point like portugal where drugs are not illegal. Even stretch to having license to produce drugs or drugs are manufactured and sold being taxed to generate large revenue

Control it and reduce crime but tax it and make it work financially !

Personally, I think you're probably correct. I doubt, though, you'll get the SNP to make such a commitment before independence as it would be an issue seized on by the hang 'em, flog 'em brigade. Just as you won't get a Westminster party to commit to such a change until they're certain it's a vote winner.

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


So in other words, complicated and potentially messy then? That is my greatest fear with all of this.

Thanks for the info though, that is much appreciated.

reply to post by YeshuaPiso

Freeborn, we almost see it as a duty to stick up for you - after all, in the North East you're just actually Scotsmen with your brains kicked out

I would like to disagree with that....but when I look at some of my neighbours, colleagues and friends I'm afraid there maybe more than just an element of truth in that!

And we do get on very well with each other.....as I said earlier in the thread, much to stu's dismay, I feel I have more in common with the Scots than I do with most southerners, particularly Londoners and the surrounding areas.

reply to post by EvanB


I am indeed both ugly enough and old enough to look after myself, but I appreciate the kind words etc.

And as I agree whole hearted with you, as I've stated several times; I really hope that we can keep The Union, at least in some shape or form and that we can work together to make this kingdom truly great, but at the end of the day that's for Scotland to decide.

reply to post by Nammu


I hope it doesn't get chidish and petty but unfortunately most break up's do.

reply to post by sapien82


Exactly mate.
We've all been screwed over by TPTB, bankers and the London elite.

Control it and reduce crime but tax it and make it work financially !

Finally....someone who see's it as I do.
Alas.......

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by YeshuaPiso

 

So in other words, complicated and potentially messy then? That is my greatest fear with all of this.

Thanks for the info though, that is much appreciated.

Complex certainly. Insurmountable? Clearly not.

The military issue, I think, may be the issue that requires most discussion. It has also been suggested, as you point out, that we continue to contribute to UK forces. This, however, would be a worse problem politically. An SNP government, for example, would not wish to contribute to the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq; the 'liberation' of Libya; and the possible upcoming conflicts in Iran and Syria.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by YeshuaPiso

 

So in other words, complicated and potentially messy then? That is my greatest fear with all of this.

Thanks for the info though, that is much appreciated.

Complex certainly. Insurmountable? Clearly not.

The military issue, I think, may be the issue that requires most discussion. It has also been suggested, as you point out, that we continue to contribute to UK forces. This, however, would be a worse problem politically. An SNP government, for example, would not wish to contribute to the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq; the 'liberation' of Libya; and the possible upcoming conflicts in Iran and Syria.

And this is why any sane human being living in Scotland with the power to vote should vote for the SNP. Whether any of you like it or not, we should NOT be in these wars and we need a party to stand up and agree. If it costs us some hardship for a few years whilst we transit through to independence, is this not worth it to save a few hundred thousand innocent lives?

Originally posted by jrmcleod

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by YeshuaPiso

 

So in other words, complicated and potentially messy then? That is my greatest fear with all of this.

Thanks for the info though, that is much appreciated.

Complex certainly. Insurmountable? Clearly not.

The military issue, I think, may be the issue that requires most discussion. It has also been suggested, as you point out, that we continue to contribute to UK forces. This, however, would be a worse problem politically. An SNP government, for example, would not wish to contribute to the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq; the 'liberation' of Libya; and the possible upcoming conflicts in Iran and Syria.

And this is why any sane human being living in Scotland with the power to vote should vote for the SNP. Whether any of you like it or not, we should NOT be in these wars and we need a party to stand up and agree. If it costs us some hardship for a few years whilst we transit through to independence, is this not worth it to save a few hundred thousand innocent lives?

No argument from me on that. In fact, I would go even further and say they should join the SNP.