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Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

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posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by HallamFoe
 


Yes, we are all ignorant bigots wee hen, now get yersel to bed
edit on 12-1-2012 by EvanB because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:45 PM
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www.bbc.co.uk...

This was discussed on Question Time.

Found out a funny fact - When Scotland are in the EU they will have the same voting rights as Slovenia.

Sorry if anyone has rebutted my posts - I can't be f**ked to go back over this thread when it seems to me, people are displaying arrogance, ignorance and racism.

I will sum up my opinion:
Scotland will NOT experience some golden age if/when they split from the UK it will be HARD TIMES.
England will NOT experience some golden age, either.

We are BOTH stronger together this is not something you can argue, this is a FACT together we are stronger on the world stage and when we're not together we will BOTH be weakened by this.

It doesn't matter which country is better and if you're viewing it like that, you're looking at it completely all wrong.

Someone mentioned Braveheart - We're growing up with a Braveheart generation that believe in some fantasied notion that a film espouses. We've been united for 300 years, and you haven't been "oppressed" in those 300 years, we have been PARTNERS.

Independence will be bad for ALL parties involved, Independence will bring SUFFERING to the Scottish people, you're going to have vast amounts of debt loaded off onto you, all these progressive measures will be scrapped and you will face greater cuts than we have. More than likely 1/3 of our national debt will go to you - This is bad, will put Scotland in a bad place. Alexander has said that Scotland will defo be joining the EU too, and embracing the EURO - This will be very bad for Scotland.

Prediction: A few years after independence Scotland will need an IMF bailout loan and be completely subservient to the masters.

For England? Our already weak standing in the world will lower and we will lose some "clout" on the International Stage.

Edit: People saying that the independence movement has the MSM to contend with The Sun ( In Scotland) Supported SNP in the election. Murdoch wants Scottish Independence.
edit on 12-1-2012 by RebellionOutlaw because: new info


Just another point; ENGLAND DID NOT INVADE AND CONQUER SCOTLAND - SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND JOINED TOGETHER IN UNION.
edit on 12-1-2012 by RebellionOutlaw because: random thought.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:12 AM
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I have to agree with stumason.

Freeborn has been consistently polite and reasonable and if anyone wanted to 'turn the guns' on anyone, it shouldn't have been him or, for that matter, stumason. There are a number of infantile, ill-informed cretins that would better serve as targets for your bile.

Having said that, bile and aggression aren't required anyway. I always find that when people start ranting they are always on the verge of losing an argument - if they haven't actually already done so.

A community like this should be able to discuss issues without getting offensive.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by EvanB
 


Want to stop with the name calling.

It is against ATS rules after all.

Wither or not Scotland has its referendum or not is has nothing to do with anyone else.

If the UK is democratic as it has lead the world to believe it is. Then there should be no problem.

As for your comment with regards to Drugs! Referring to drugs in anyway on ATS is also against their rules.

Take some advise, I would quit before you are either warned or banned.

There are far as many extremists anyways in England than there is in Scotland, As well as Northern Ireland and Ireland.

So look at your own backdoor, before criticizing my country.


See how petty and silly this argument is.

The date has been decided. It is up to the Scottish People since they not Westminster are sovereign in Scotland. Lets get on with it and see what happens.
edit on 13-1-2012 by Laurauk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:22 AM
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Its hard to take anything that comes out of a UK Politicians mouth seriously.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


I do have to point out a correction to you, on page 26 I think it is you stated:

Cameron and co want the referendum in 2014.

Can I point out that is wrong, they want it within 18 months. It is the Scottish Government who want the Referendum to be held in 2014,



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:25 AM
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reply to post by mr1alphaalpha
 


Most of them are scared that they are going to loose their seats and their comfortable lifestyle. After all if Scotland did become independent. There would be no more Scottish MP's at Westminster. And that is why half of them are against the referendum, especially labour.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by HallamFoe
 


As for you, stop giving all us Scottish members a bad name. ATS has rules against the name calling and demonizing other members, I would quit while I was ahead if I were you.

If you cannot have a civilized debate without having to resort to name calling, then do not reply to comments posted on the thread simples.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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Good Good,USA and Russia should support the Scottish independence movement.Also we should support the Argentinan forces in retaking Falkland islands.We should surround the Rothschild and the cannibal royal family with nukes.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by ludwigvonmises003
 


Ums just remember England will still have the nukes if the UK breaks up. The Scottish Government has stated they as well as the Scottish people want them out of Scotland.

Don't threaten England they might just bite back. And do you really think the Scottish People would sit back and allow the Argentinians to retake the Falklands. I do not

As it has been stated before. History of the UK goes back 300 - 400 years. It will take a long time before it changes, and there has been no discussion what so ever of breaking up the Armed forces as of yet.
edit on 13-1-2012 by Laurauk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 03:51 AM
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Perhaps now, we can also draw this thread to a close as it has become fairly negative.

In the last few days, the Coalition government have tried to address Clegg's ridiculous comments, not directly but by issuing far more reasonable statements.

Michael Moore has acknowledged (as has Cameron) that this is an issue for the Scots alone to decide and that they are happy to pass legislation to make the referendum happen. As many law professors have since pointed out, it wouldn't have made much difference whether an SNP-organised referendum was 'technically' outwith their remit, if it was properly-constituted political realities would mean that the UK Government would have little choice to acknowledge the settled will of the Scottish people. However, if Westminster are happy to give it full 'legal' force, then let them do so.

That means the only issues left are over timing and the actual form and numbers on the referendum paper.

Although it wasn't actually in the Manifesto, the SNP made it clear before Scotland went to the polls that any referendum would be in the latter-half of their term. They were elected as the biggest party giving them a mandate to carry out their programme. Therefore, Autumn 2014 will be the date. Any attempt to bounce Scotland into an earlier decision will backfire on Unionists but clearly, Salmond has chosen the timescale that he thinks gives his campaign the best chance of succeeding..... So what? These powers and advantages are inherent in our system - which is why past PMs have chosen advantageous dates for General Elections.

Let us not be sidetracked by those who say, 'Yes, but the SNP didn't have a majority of the entire electorate'. Well, show me when in our modern multi-party state that has ever happened.... In a devolved Scottish system specifically designed to prevent one party winning a majority, they did so. They have an electoral mandate - a powerful one. That case will be made even stronger in the May council elections when it is being whispered amongst Labour insiders that Glasgow City Council may even fall to the SNP. I remain to be convinced of that but it is clear that the SNP will continue to make gains - not, in fact, based on the independence question but on a growing record of stable, sensible and innovative government at a national and local level. Scotland's voters are now fed up with years of Labour Party cronyism, mismanagement and taking Scottish voters for granted. The Tories and Lib-Dems have effectively been written off as non-entities but, interestingly, some studies show that in an independent Scotland those two parties would do better as people could vote with their natural political leanings without worrying about Westminster domination.

Whether the Referendum ends up being a three or two-question one is harder to decipher.

Everybody in every party claims to prefer a straight Yes-No but being politicians, my sense is that none of them want to be hamstrung by a clear expression of a nation's will one way or the other. Politicians like grey areas where they can try and manipulate to gain advantage. We'll see how this develops.

The polls? Recently they show that around 38% would vote for full independence. 5% are undecided and their votes are up for grabs. Of the remaining 57%, the majority would like to see some version of Devo-Max or Independence-Lite. These are worrying figures for Unionists. Trends show support for more powers is increasing while staunch defence of the status quo is receding. This is on a knife edge.

Somewhat surprisingly, these figures are fairly constant across all social classes.

Support for independence falls off somewhat amongst the over 55s, which is why Alex Salmond would like to see voting age reduced to 16 or 17, as SNP polls well in the younger age groups. Which makes one think that there is a sense of historical inevitability about independence. As has often been pointed out, societies don't ask for less democracy.

The suspicion is that continuing sensible government by Salmond and the SNP will shift some of those swing voters to his camp, while perceived 'interference' from London will do the same thing. In this climate, it is clear the supporters of Union have a vested interest in the 'sooner rather than later' position, while the SNP increase their chances of a Yes vote with every month they hold out and, I admit, every public grievance they can fool the Westminster government into creating.

Many on this thread have stated that the SNP won't win the referendum based on headline polling figures but the underlying trends actually suggest this is too close to call.

Interesting times ahead.


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edit on 13-1-2012 by YeshuaPiso because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by ludwigvonmises003
 


With respect, I'd like to make a small comment about your signature footnote...

It has become a rallying call against TPTB to say that America is becoming a communist/socialist state. This is incorrect.

In a communist state, the government controls all economic levers including the means of production.

In America, the corporations control the Government - that is a corporate fascist state or a corporatocracy.

A minor point as it ends up in the same place but America is descending into Fascism, not Communism.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Yes the British Trident missiles made in USA.
So we have the IFF codes and can disarm them at will.If in case launched we could redirect and program the nukes to target England.

edit on 13-1-2012 by ludwigvonmises003 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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My wee favourite is back.




This was discussed on Question Time. Found out a funny fact - When Scotland are in the EU they will have the same voting rights as Slovenia.


In actual fact, although it's a small point, this is incorrect. If they were in the EU, Scotland's weighting would see them have 7 votes in common with Denmark, Slovakia and Finland. Slovenia have 4 votes. The point is they would be exercised in a direction that was in Scotland's national interest and not the UK's. Often these are not the same thing.

Although I'm fairly certain it wouldn't happen, it remains to be seen whether this would result in a reduction in the Rest of the UK weighting - certainly after Cameron's spat with Sarkoczy and Merkel some on the Continent would push for that as they would assume that in most cases Scotland would vote with RUK.

Strangely, this would give Scotland more 'proportional' weighting in any votes in the Council compared to the Rest of the UK - 7 votes for a nation of 5.2 million, against 29 votes for a nation of 54 million. However, as a SNP member who does not want to be immersed in the EU, this is of little interest to me. I would prefer to emulate the Norwegians who make the appropriate contributions for access to EU markets allowing them to trade but are not bound by the EU's rules and regulations on everything else.





Someone mentioned Braveheart - We're growing up with a Braveheart generation that believe in some fantasied notion that a film espouses. We've been united for 300 years, and you haven't been "oppressed" in those 300 years, we have been PARTNERS.


I can't answer for everyone but certainly anyone in Scotland with a sense of history does not base their political aspiration for independence on 'Braveheart' - which although good cinema was fundamentally flawed in a historical sense.




Independence will be bad for ALL parties involved, Independence will bring SUFFERING to the Scottish people, you're going to have vast amounts of debt loaded off onto you, all these progressive measures will be scrapped and you will face greater cuts than we have. More than likely 1/3 of our national debt will go to you - This is bad, will put Scotland in a bad place. Alexander has said that Scotland will defo be joining the EU too, and embracing the EURO - This will be very bad for Scotland
.

This is an incredible statement. You are seriously suggesting 33% of the UK's national debt will be attributed to 8.5% of the population? Your basis for this ridiculous statement is....


You never let me down with the quality of your arguments.
edit on 13-1-2012 by YeshuaPiso because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-1-2012 by YeshuaPiso because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-1-2012 by YeshuaPiso because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 05:02 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Democracy doesn't exist we live in an Oligarchy masquerading as a Democracy.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by RebellionOutlaw
reply to post by Laurauk
 


Democracy doesn't exist we live in an Oligarchy masquerading as a Democracy.


Finally we can agree on something.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by YeshuaPiso
 


The indications are that as Scotland receives around 10% of the pot then Scotlands' contribution would also be around 10% - this may rise or fall slightly depending on negotiations (if you vote for independence which i hope and think that you won't).



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
I have to agree with stumason.

Freeborn has been consistently polite and reasonable and if anyone wanted to 'turn the guns' on anyone, it shouldn't have been him or, for that matter, stumason. There are a number of infantile, ill-informed cretins that would better serve as targets for your bile.

Having said that, bile and aggression aren't required anyway. I always find that when people start ranting they are always on the verge of losing an argument - if they haven't actually already done so.

A community like this should be able to discuss issues without getting offensive.


Well said.

The problem with ranting on computers is that you don't have anyone facing you to temper your emotions - people often get carried away!



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
Good Good,USA and Russia should support the Scottish independence movement.Also we should support the Argentinan forces in retaking Falkland islands.We should surround the Rothschild and the cannibal royal family with nukes.


Do you ever have anything sensible to say? I haven't discovered it yet to be honest. Instead, all you do is pour bile onto every thread you inhabit.

Im sure im not alone on here in thinking that whenever i see your posts it turns me off a thread.......



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


As you say Flavian, this would be a matter of some negotiation that would have to take into account a whole host of factors.

At the upper end of such calculations, 10% may prove to be a reasonable figure.

To suggest 33% is either just scaremongering or demonstrates a tenuous hold on reality.




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