Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

reply to post by Freeborn

Could someone please explain what the current arguement is about?

Everyone agrees that a referendum should be held. Cameron and his cronies say it should be held in 2014. Salmond and his cronies disagree with this - does he think it should be held before or after?

Cameron et al believe it should be overseen by the Electoral Commission, whereas the SNP disagree - who cares who oversees it as long as there is someone ensuring that the referendum is carried out fairly and in accordance with whatever guidelines / rules are set?

I gave you reasonable answers to a couple of your questions. Even the though your second one was sort of rhetorical.

No Cameron wants it to be held in 18 months time in 2013. The SNP have always said that they would hold the referendum either in Autumn of 2014 or at the beginning of the their next term. This is a huge decision for Scotland and the SNP don't want to rush it...I would imagine there is a lot of planning involved.

The SNP also want it to be an independent committee to oversee the vote so that there is no bias and to make it fairer.

Then you come back with this silly reply.

I would have thought that if you are so passionate about independance you would prefer sooner rather than later. Surely it wouldn't take that long to organise and then set aside a certain amount of time for public debate etc.

Honestly mate. I'm reading between the lines here "if you are so passionate you would prefer sooner rather than later." ...you have this braveheart vision of us and I don't like it. We're no daft we're no gonnae jump into so something without looking into it first.

If you're not gonna say anything decent or if your just going to ask silly questions then don't say anything at all.

Later. I'm done replying to your idiotic posts where you're accusing me of generalisation. You are a hypocrite.

reply to post by HallamFoe

Honestly mate. I'm reading between the lines here "if you are so passionate you would prefer sooner rather than later." ...you have this braveheart vision of us and I don't like it.

Why would I have a vision of you that is based on a complete fabrication of a man, the times and a nation?

You don't seem to be very good at reading between lines....or maybe you spend too much time trying to and see things that aren't there at all.

If you're not gonna say anything decent or if your just going to ask silly questions then don't say anything at all.

First of all what wasn't decent and how come?
And what was 'silly'?
And lastly I'll say what I want, it's an open forum and you aren't no Mod, so I'll post when, if and how I choose.

I've also noticed how your responses are very much selective and completely ignore anything which you either find difficult or uncomfortable to answer to.

Later. I'm done replying to your idiotic posts where you're accusing me of generalisation

Your choice.
Hardly a great loss to this thread as you don't really seem to have grasped the whole idea behind respecful debate and discussion.

. You are a hypocrite.

Well, I genuinely try not to be....but I am only human.

Seems this thread rather than discuss the pros and cons regarding independence has turned into petty name calling.

I am in favour and will vote yes.
I doubt there will be a yes majority,the snp have to fight against
3 pro union party's
All the uk newspapers
All the broadcasters
There will be disinformation
Scare mongering
and off course the population has been indoctrinated over many years.

I don't have much I'd like to contribute to this thread seeing as it has essentially boiled down to a slagging match between two camps, one that is in no way at all helpful. However, I have this to say, as a BRIT (or English as I'm persistently told I should consider myself), maybe the Scots wouldn't be moaning about independance if people such as the English gents who've decided to be rude in this thread weren't so condencending.

Now I may be pro-unionist but I'm entirely in the belief that the United Kingdom should be federalised, we should introduce a codified constituion and a proper seperation of the three branches of goverment. How we can march across the world justifying millitary intervention in the name of freeing people from oppression in the name of promoting self-determination and then back home deny our own citizens equal rights is beyond me.

- Federalise Britain and allow reigional parliments to control their own affairs on all issues except defence, foreign policy ect..


It's the only way to:-

1) Secure the union
2) Solve the west loatian question
3) Legitimise goverment

Without embracing these changes I can't see how the union can be honestly justified in this century.

reply to post by Freeborn


I have highlighted a couple of points based on actual fact. Which do actually contribute this thread.
And my supposed hatred and rude remarks are actually made in defence of all the anti-scottish comments on here.

All you've done is ask the same questions and say the things over and over. Questions that have been answered. To which you then come back with smart arse comments. Breaking everything down word for word - literally! Taking everything i say out of context. Then when I come back with a cheeky reply, you say I'm the one being inferior. Grow up pal.

Now you say my responses are selective and don't answer to all the questions...well that's because I don't know the answer to everything. I'm truly sorry that I'm not as smart as yourself.

reply to post by HallamFoe


Sorry mate, I've really lost the will to live with this thread.

Never wanted to come across as an arse but guess I just don't like it when one set of morals and values are used for us English and another set used for everybody else.

We aren't that different - we all seem to realise that the biggest problems we all face are the carear minded politicians in Westminster who lack even the slightest amount of personal conviction and interest in the well being of their constituents and the TPTB in London that dominate almost every aspect of British society.

I sincerely hope that Scotland do not vote to dissolve The Union and that we can work together to try and change it into something to be proud of, but that choice will reside in the will of the Scottish people whenever you vote upon it.

Sorry mate, I've really lost the will to live with this thread.

reply to post by Freeborn


Thats what happens when you try to talk to EXTREMISTS

They prove Clegg right after all..

Originally posted by Freeborn
We aren't that different - we all seem to realise that the biggest problems we all face are the carear minded politicians in Westminster who lack even the slightest amount of personal conviction and interest in the well being of their constituents and the TPTB in London that dominate almost every aspect of British society.

Frankly I'm amazed someone like you posts on a site like this at all, you're filled with nationalism and nepotism and spew out the most obvious english propoganda I've ever seen. I've seen you do it in multiple threads about ireland and here you are again banging the drum against the scots too.

You have somewhere between no knowledge of history and an extremely english biased version of history. You should really think a little bit about what you're saying and how you being english might lead to certain biases if you dont want to "look like an arse" in future

reply to post by WeissRitter


I think you're totally misunderstanding Freeborn, he has actually been one of the more moderate Englishman on this thread and has gone to great lengths to say he believes in Scotlands right to determine it's future, but has also explained he feels the Union is better together and also that we need an overhaul of the system so everyone feels like they have a say, not just London calling the shots.

I am, actually, at a loss why you and that other chap are coming down on him so hard. I would have thought if you wanted to pick a fight with an Englishman, there are plenty of others in this thread who would have been better suited.

reply to post by EvanB

post removed by staff

You are vile.

*sigh*


27 pages and you're still arguing the same old crap? Really?


Scotland will decide whether they want to be a part of the UK.

That's it.

They probably will decide to stay in but demand more powers from Westminster..... whoop de do.


Seriously... let it happen, stop fighting about it and getting all nationalistic.

Who cares?

Originally posted by HallamFoe
reply to post by EvanB

 

post removed by staff

You are vile.

And you are a crossdresser

reply to post by stumason

I think you're totally misunderstanding Freeborn, he has actually been one of the more moderate Englishman on this thread and has gone to great lengths to say he believes in Scotlands right to determine it's future, but has also explained he feels the Union is better together and also that we need an overhaul of the system so everyone feels like they have a say, not just London calling the shots.

I am, actually, at a loss why you and that other chap are coming down on him so hard. I would have thought if you wanted to pick a fight with an Englishman, there are plenty of others in this thread who would have been better suited.

I never misunderstood anything he said. But unfortunately some of what he said was mildly offensive, took things out of context, asked the same questions and at times speaking hypothetically and not realistically. He made accusations. Of course I have nothing against him personally but I did have to point all this out to him because I don't think he did it intentionally.

And there was actually a couple of other people I "picked a fight" with because of the stuff that was being said. You could say that they were asking for it though.

reply to post by EvanB

Ah well at least we have a national dress and sense of identity. You don't.

reply to post by blupblup


Good point dude..

Like you said, chances are this vote will come of nothing and, at best, it'll boil down to the Scots wanting a bit more control of their cash. You can tell even the SNP don't believe they will win, which is why they are pushing for the devo-max option to be included.

Originally posted by HallamFoe
Ah well at least we have a national dress and sense of identity. You don't.

Come on man, just because one person going a bit far, doesn't mean you have to lower yourself and smear the rest of us. England has plenty of culture and identity, varying from region to region and yes, there are various "costumes" as well...

All you're doing by responding like that is showing a biggotted and ignorant position of your own, which doesn't do anyone any good.

reply to post by stumason

Come on man, just because one person going a bit far, doesn't mean you have to lower yourself and smear the rest of us. England has plenty of culture and identity, varying from region to region and yes, there are various "costumes" as well...

All you're doing by responding like that is showing a biggotted and ignorant position of your own, which doesn't do anyone any good.

OK, so why didn't you tell him that as well? Instead you jump in when I retaliate with something you don't like?

Shows you're just as biggotted and ignorant as he is.

This is the point i've been trying to get across. Too many folk on here trying to take the moral high ground but not realising that they themselves are just as bad.

Originally posted by HallamFoe
reply to post by EvanB

 

Ah well at least we have a national dress and sense of identity. You don't.

I have Identity a plenty.

Passport, drivers license, British Legion card, some utility bills and bankstatements, so take that back!!

To be honest I was reacting to the way freeborn was being spoken too which was out of order as he was not being disrespectful in any way.

But as usual, those who dish it out cant take it and go off crying



Im just sorry for making a twat of myself

Maybe not

I am vile after all