Answering the question: why is there suffering if there is God.

Originally posted by filosophia
I understand you may not understand what I am saying but there is a solution. Read the works I mentioned and you too will get a star

Simply disgusting

reply to post by DrunkNinja


I thought you were leaving? I guess it was so important to stay and vent your frustration. I said that in a light hearted manner and yet you call it disgusting. We obviously have different tastes, so you can see how much we can learn from each other. Try it, it works far better than insults.

There was a time when there was no suffering, and mankind walked in perfection. They rebelled against that perfection, and death came into the world.

Brother killed brother and the earth brought thorns and weeds against the nutritious crops. People chose to follow their murderous intents, all the time saying "God, we don't want your laws of life". Suffering came about because of rebellion, and will always be here until the new heaven and the new earth.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by filosophia

 

You are at the top of the stairway ?

You so far have said that people that die needlessly through disease, starvation, pre-mature death, and every other horrible way to pass on, are in fact sacrifices for the greater good. When a child days in a car accident it is actually a human sacrifice for the greater good, as the parents will learn humility ? When people are dying from starvation, is it just a sacrifice for the greater good as then God's word is more easily spread ? You really need to look at what your saying at its base, as its truly some barbaric rhetoric.

When a child dies in a car accident it is reason to invent seatbelts, or to avoid cars altogether. You misunderstand my words to mean a sacrifice which is why you think it is barbaric. Bad things happen to teach people the dangers in the world. If someone dies in a car accident it is used as proof as to why everyone must take a test to be a safe driver. This deceased is not a sacrifice to the drivers test in a tangent way but it is a sacrifice in a way in an intangent way because government will use it as a reason to force driving tests.

you are not going to like this but it is still true, when someone dies they are relieved of suffering and thus suffer no more.

edit on 8-1-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Iguess that explains the "Jonestown massacre Kool aid": You all are so eager to "meet your maker:" I'm surprised they aren't handing out tickets after communion for that long line to the Brooklyn bridge:"Now serving #31,420!"Praise the Lord:God be with You(just leave your wallet in the pile:Thenk you...):now JUMP"!

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by AllUrChips
reply to post by filosophia

 

Ok, our OWN government flying a couple of planes into the WTC. All the suffering children in the daycare at the OKC building bombings? Lets hear it

Terrorism causes good people like yourself to become awakened to the true evil of society and to fight it. All conflicts motivate good people to protect the innocent.

One problem I have with your explanations is that they center on lessons for third parties. Specifically, when a young person tragically dies, it is selfish/shows a lack of humility/empathy to view the person lost as a mere pawn in your education/experience. The BIGGEST tragedy is the result of what the victim lost (a full and complete/potentially happy life).

Tragedies happen. May there be higher reason behind it? Unless anyone can prove otherwise, sure. Perhaps truth includes constant reincarnation/cyclic universe/parallel universes/etc., and the law of averages is the fairness card.

Either way, we don't know truth in this place/now. And it shows at least some spiritual immaturity imho to sum up someone else's tragic fate (as framed by our perspective/understanding, at least) and existence as a lesson for someone else.

God created the earth and "it was good"
Suffering is not good, thats ludicrous, its insane to suggest suffering is good.
Jesus healed those who were suffering, because it is not what we were created for.
Sin causes suffering, sin and greed and evil. God is not the orchestrator of sin. Humanity is sinful and sin causes our suffering
What a truly silly premise.
Dont believe these silly statements about suffering being good its just blatantly wrong. God didnt create us to suffer, thts why our eyes should be on heaven, this earth is fallen and suffering.
Its BAD

Originally posted by borntowatch
God created the earth and "it was good"
Suffering is not good, thats ludicrous, its insane to suggest suffering is good.
Jesus healed those who were suffering, because it is not what we were created for.
Sin causes suffering, sin and greed and evil. God is not the orchestrator of sin. Humanity is sinful and sin causes our suffering
What a truly silly premise.
Dont believe these silly statements about suffering being good its just blatantly wrong. God didnt create us to suffer, thts why our eyes should be on heaven, this earth is fallen and suffering.
Its BAD

Yes, the bad and suffering came through rebellion. This earth is fallen.

Just a thought, but maybe our "suffering" just isn't God's problem. I know most religions teach that we're the center of the apple, but I'd say it's more logical to assume that life, regardless of the sort, is the creator's big creation. We're just a flavor, and one with a funny aftertaste. If God is out there, I'm sure he's rooting for us, but saving us from ourselves is like saving a gazelle from a lion. It's about the process not the result. There's no high score in life.

reply to post by filosophia


Whether we believe God is nature or God is its own intelligence, suffering leads us back to the same answer, it just happens. God as a sentient being can do whatever He wills and torture the living hell out of people and we have to accept. God as a force of nature can do whatever it wants and wipe out a group of people as a random accident. In the end, the answer is....it just happens. You cannot taste the sweet if you do not know the bitter.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
reply to post by filosophia

 

I thought you were going to answer my question? No beating around the bush. Why did those people and children suffer, and why/how was it POSITIVE?

Hello allurchips, please understand that I am not defending the OP, I would just like to point out that it was PEOPLE who did what they did, people who probably weren't aware that children were at stake, people who probably did know. Either way, how is it that you can blame God for what a group of evil people chose to do? Now if you were to say that people don't have any free will of their own nor any capacity to think for themselves then I could see your arguement.

At some point you will all realize that there is no such thing as good or evil. There is just the experience. Everything happens for a reason. Whether it's considered "good" or "bad" there was something to be learnt and gained from it. God has nothing to do with it. Cause and Effect.
Love and Light

P.S.
When you speak of God, are you talking about the God your government wants you to believe in or the one true Creator?
Once you figure out the difference you'll understand.

with light, there is always darkness.. were at a crossroads right now where we must fight to eradicate the darkness. In order for "god" to teach us well, it must seem that it has done nothing at all or we will take it for granted.

Love and light,

This is from God directly. Jesus told His apostles than no slave is greater than his master.

if Jesus was persecuted and suffered for our sins, then we will suffer also.

Since the fall of man from Eden, we have become awakened to good and evil, to light and darkness. This on Earth right now is like a "game", In order to see into your heart and see which side you choose. The good or the evil, the light or the darkness. Everyone sins yes, but not everyone repents for their sins. Why does YHWH not interfere? simple...because the game is not finished, once the game is finished you either win or lose. Either you go to the "next level or chapter" or you get game over. in this sense its a paradigm for Heaven and Hell. But during the game He wont influence your playing, he will only point you in the right direction...its your choice whether you go in this direction or not. People reaching this website is a sign, its a sign you know the true evils of this world and they are staring you in the face. But still people dont repent. In the sense of what Heaven and Hell is(the topic of this thread), doesn't that mean you lose?

Hope this helps answer some of the questions

reply to post by filosophia


Wether there is a God or not. You pretty much hit it right on there.
Lets assume there is a God. He gave us free will, because we need to make our own mistakes and learn from there. We need to know suffering, war, hate, crime, etc. Just so we know what it is, and that it is not needed and not good for us. It will take several generations before we learn. If God just swooped in and said "STOP!" we would learn nothing. It is just like a kid playing with fire, you can teach the kid not to do it, but if the kid does not # up and burn its hand, it wont ever really know why not to play with fire. So let it have that lesson, let it burn its hand and learn an important lesson; It hurts, so dont play with fire. Not because I told you so, but because it hurts.

The fact that many of us are able to see and understand that war, suffering, etc is bad, and that we are able to change our nature towards these things, tells me that we are on our way to a better world. We are almost there, we just need a few hundreds years more and we are there.

We are on this planet to be tested! I believe that God giving us a choice between Good and Evil.

reply to post by filosophia


3 ruptured discs in my lower back
Well I'M suffering from it

Originally posted by AmirJardan
We are on this planet to be tested! I believe that God giving us a choice between Good and Evil.

"Brevity is the soul of wit." - Shakespeare

20 Words that sums up why there is suffering in this world.

My answer to the OP would be that God never intended mankind to suffer and behave the way he does -

The original human pair turned their back on God and chose to do things their own way, without reference to moral guidance from God. He's not a control freak - we have free will - he just knows what's best for his children. However they don't listen and they've done evil things to each other, to the planet and to all the creatures that live upon it. Had God not allowed a time for mankind to rule himself unsuccessfully the question would have remained that mankind didn't need guidance from his creator, he could manage just fine on his own. Since that time mankind has tried every sort of government possible to rule himself, to the point where we now see just how much he has "ruined the earth in the sight of God"

Isaiah 48:18 . . .O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

All the badness we see on the Earth today is NOT how God intended matters to be at all. Mankind brings much of the suffering we see upon himself, by his own greed & selfishness. The Bible also explains that wicked spirit forces are behind much of the violence and inhumanity also.

Nevertheless God will not permit wickedness and suffering to continue indefinitely -

Acts 17:30-31 . . .True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent. Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead.

By means of Christ Jesus, Jehovah his heavenly father has "furnished a guarantee" that these matters will be put right.

Psalm 37:10-13 - And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

The wicked one is plotting against the righteous one, And at him he is grinding his teeth. Jehovah himself will laugh at him, For he certainly sees that his day will come.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
There was a time when there was no suffering, and mankind walked in perfection. They rebelled against that perfection, and death came into the world.

Brother killed brother and the earth brought thorns and weeds against the nutritious crops. People chose to follow their murderous intents, all the time saying "God, we don't want your laws of life". Suffering came about because of rebellion, and will always be here until the new heaven and the new earth.

yes, and all that destruction was in the name of god. .