Answering the question: why is there suffering if there is God.

reply to post by filosophia


BULL CRAP. !!!! Joy is joy. It is not to dampen an otherwise ugly unbearable existence. Just who do you think you are???? You can take a beautiful emotion like joy and turn it into a salve??? Its only to dampen the blow ??? Ok I've had enough for today. Gotta get away from this crap for a while before I become as jaded as this poor bloke.

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by filosophia

 

You are at the top of the stairway ?

You so far have said that people that die needlessly through disease, starvation, pre-mature death, and every other horrible way to pass on, are in fact sacrifices for the greater good. When a child days in a car accident it is actually a human sacrifice for the greater good, as the parents will learn humility ? When people are dying from starvation, is it just a sacrifice for the greater good as then God's word is more easily spread ? You really need to look at what your saying at its base, as its truly some barbaric rhetoric.

When a child dies in a car accident it is reason to invent seatbelts, or to avoid cars altogether. You misunderstand my words to mean a sacrifice which is why you think it is barbaric. Bad things happen to teach people the dangers in the world. If someone dies in a car accident it is used as proof as to why everyone must take a test to be a safe driver. This deceased is not a sacrifice to the drivers test in a tangent way but it is a sacrifice in a way in an intangent way because government will use it as a reason to force driving tests.

you are not going to like this but it is still true, when someone dies they are relieved of suffering and thus suffer no more.

reply to post by filosophia


What kind of a God would kill or torture people to make someone better? I don't have the answer to this but one thing is for sure we will all find out at some point.

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by filosophia

 

BULL CRAP. !!!! Joy is joy. It is not to dampen an otherwise ugly unbearable existence. Just who do you think you are???? You can take a beautiful emotion like joy and turn it into a salve??? Its only to dampen the blow ??? Ok I've had enough for today. Gotta get away from this crap for a while before I become as jaded as this poor bloke.

you see, you had enough now you must do something joyful to wash the bad taste out of your mouth because my words have made you suffer, my unpleasantness causes you to turn away and seek something more joyful to dampen the blow.

The question was asked, why is there suffering if there is God? It would better be stated as, "Why is there suffering period?"

Those in the Abrahamic and other Western religions will most likely tell you that because we are born into sin, and all have fallen short in the eyes of God, that we suffer, but all of it is God's plan.

However, in Eastern systems stemming from the Hindu, the answer lies in our eternal conscious, unbeginning and unending. Thus, as we have lived innumerable past lives which we do good or bad. Those actions leave positive or negative imprints on our mind, which is commonly called karma (or kamma in Pali). What we have done in a past life, or even this life, will ultimately flourish later. The question is, will that flourishing be of a beautiful lotus, or a weed?

This is essential, because those who are suffering in ways they could not and cannot help are the fruits of past lives. Their current incarnation cannot be blamed, as they have no control over it. This is why we must do everything we can to help those pained, or sad, or angry, lost or hungry. It is our duty, being expressions of God experiencing itself through these six senses.

This is why there is suffering, and this is also why we must help others to end suffering as best as we can. A child with a terminal illness cannot be blamed for what they did in a past life. Neither is this part of a "grand plan." This is life, and although they may die, we must comfort them and make what time they have here in this life as painless as we possibly can.

Originally posted by FarBeyondDriven69
reply to post by filosophia

 

What kind of a God would kill or torcher people to make someone better? I don't have the answer to this but one thing is for sure we will all find out at some point.

Time kills, men torture, God/Nature is what gives things life. Take away Nature and you have no means by which to torture. So there is either free will to commit injustices and fight injustices, or there is no life at all.

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


Why is there suffering at all? Because otherwise we would have no life. Take away evil and there is no way to conceive of that which is good. When even light causes infants to suffer, take away vision and you take away all means by which they will grow and live. Pain is consciousness, without pain there is no reactionary instinct of the mind.

reply to post by filosophia


I was raised catholic, and graduated from a diocese, and the priests that were always able to handle the tough questions would be appalled at everything you have said in this post. You are saying that god kills to teach us lessons, like car accidents are a lesson for us to invent seat belts. They would shake their heads in disgust upon hearing this. You cant see how irrational a line of thought this is because you are blinded by your feelings of being at the "top of the stairway," and even they would lose patience. I would tell you the roman catholic understanding of suffering as it doesn't entail anything as ridiculous as the above, but I am not about to assist you in broadening your ability to indoctrinate.

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by filosophia

 

I was raised catholic, and graduated from a diocese, and the priests that were always able to handle the tough questions would be appalled at everything you have said in this post. You are saying that god kills to teach us lessons, like car accidents are a lesson for us to invent seat belts. yet you cant see how irrational a line of thought this is because you are blinded by your feelings of being at the "top of the stairway," and even they would lose patience. I would tell you the roman catholic understanding of suffering, but I am not about to assist you in broadening your ability to indoctrinate.

so just curious, if what i said goes against mainstream catholicism what religion exactly do you think I am selling? Churches become corrupt so that individuals (like Christ) rectify a new and better religion. Catholicism teaches that suffering exists because man sinned, or adam speficially sinned, which has no logical connection to why man sins now, and if God is a perfect creator, saying that man is born into sin is blasphemous.

reply to post by filosophia


You must be selling Christianity as if you are a catholic you never took the time to ask for answers before giving them. If you are catholic go talk to your priest, so that next Sunday after church when your all pumped to go online bible babbling you have an idea on how to represent your god properly.

*No they don't teach that we suffer because Adam sinned, you really need to talk to your priest.

Its my belief that if we did not suffer we wouldn't clearly understand utopia.

Much like Adam and Eve who lived in a Utopia, you forget you are there and don't understand the consequences of or understand how good they had it. That is until they were cast out.

It's the fractal, pull back and check the new perspective, its elective, but I urge you to respect it.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by MrUncreated
Having acid thrown in your face because you want to divorce your husband. And then nothing is done to him because it's perfectly acceptable to do that as a man in your country. Where's God? In a coma?

Persecution is what makes heroes or heroins out of normal humans. Joan of Arc was raped in jail and this led her to lead an army.

Something terrible happens, and then something else happens as a result of it. Action, reaction.
The "something terrible" could have just been avoided, altogether.
There are no good reasons for all the misery and suffering in the world. And there are no viable excuses for any of it, no matter how you try to justify it.

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by filosophia

 

You must be selling Christianity as if you are a catholic you never took the time to ask for answers before giving them. If you are catholic go talk to your priest, so that next Sunday after church when your all pumped to go online bible babbling you have an idea on how to represent your god properly.

*No they don't teach that we suffer because Adam sinned, you really need to talk to your priest.

edit on 8-1-2012 by DrunkNinja because: (no reason given)

Can you show me one instance of me quoting the bible? If I just got done explaining to you why I think the church is corrupt, why would I go talk to a priest?

reply to post by MrUncreated


The only way all suffering could be avoided is if you were never born at all, which would mean no universe, no creation, and not much of a 'creator'.

reply to post by filosophia


So your starting your own Christianity based faith ? You heralded that disease, and starvation are positives because than Christian missionaries can spread God's word. Remember ?

Originally posted by filosophia
Starvation and disease brings communities together, for example christian missionaries helping african nations would not happen without disease and starvation.

So your obviously Christian, otherwise you wouldn't have stated the above, and Christians have churches, and priests. Than you eluded that you may be Roman Catholic before you edited your post, and they also have churches, and priests, so either way it makes perfect sense to go, and speak with an authority figure of you religion.

Why don't you clarify your faith a little for anyone that's still interested in this thread ?

reply to post by DrunkNinja


I don't deal in labels so I do not consider myself Christian, Catholic, nor do I work to create my own sub-sect of Christianity. My philosophical sources include Consolation of Philosophy, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Eneads, and general Buddhist philosophy but no absolute sect. I hope this helps in clarifying my beliefs.

I think what Sophia is talking about, in terms of the suggestion, is that "without pain, good things in life wouldn't happen." This is, to some degree, a truth. In Laozhu's Tao, there is the concept of Ying and Yang, or what in the Buddha's teachings are called Pratityasamutpada, or dependent arising. That is, we would not know what pleasure is without pain, nor happiness without sadness, or darkness without light. All things arise together, in this interconnectedness, and in such, the answer to why pain exists is because pleasure exists.

For anyone i did not answer but has a star next to them, it means I generally agree with what you say and thus there is nothing really to add. Hence the star instead of a comment simply agreeing with you.

reply to post by filosophia


Now your advertising that you will star anyone that agrees with you. I'm done here.

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by filosophia

 

Now your advertising that you will star anyone that agrees with you. I'm done here.

edit on 8-1-2012 by DrunkNinja because: (no reason given)

Good bye and Godspeed. I hope this has been an enlightening discussion for you, it has been for me. Come back anytime.

I understand you may not understand what I am saying but there is a solution. Read the works I mentioned and you too will get a star