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Gods Will and the Mustard Seed (Jesus philosophy)

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posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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What is God’s will? Is there any way that I may know the will of my father so that I can follow it?

Jesus came to teach many things but one thing seems to have been lost and I will attempt to bring that message to you. First let me say that the philosophy that I am sharing with you did not come from me but rather too me from the scripture and the Holy Spirit, but one only need scripture to verify what I am saying. I do not consider that this knowledge makes me any better than anyone else as I am a sinner just as we all our, and I consider myself least of all God’s servants. Let me give thanks to God the father of this inspiration.

Today’s modern Christianity is torn by what to do with the law, one group says obey or go to hell, while the other says Grace alone and nails the law to the cross. Well with the help of the Holy Spirit I am about to prove that based on scripture they are both wrong.

The following scripture simply does not fit with the law being nailed to the cross philosophy.


Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane

Matthew 5:17-45 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ ...

For those that believe that the law has been nailed to the cross, they must come up with interpretations that go against what these verses directly state. God is not a God of confusion his message is plain.

So does this mean that our philosophy should be to follow the law and condemn ourselves and others who sin to hell? I will show you scripture that also proves this philosophy is incorrect.


James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Galatians 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.

Romans 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

You see these verses are what the first philosophy, that the law has been nailed to the cross is rooted in, but as I already showed you this philosophy appears to contradict several other bible verses. And again God is not a God of confusion. And these verses appear to contradict the philosophy of follow the law or go to hell. So then is there any way to reconcile between these verses?


Romans 7:1-6 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. ...


Ok so now you read this verse and it becomes even more confusing right? How can we possible make all of this fit into one perfect philosophy? First we must understand what the new way is? How do with follow the law without following the law? How can we become dead to the law but still follow this law, is this possible?


1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Romans 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Romans 8:3-4 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Now to reconcile the bible into one message where all passages now become clear without the need for any interpretation other than to understand the philosophy of Christ.

We can see the new law, the perfect law is to love and if I ended here I would have brought you nothing. What is it that the law is powerless to do? The law is powerless to make you love. The law says love your enemy, but just because the law says to love your enemy do you really love your enemy? Of course not the law can make you act kindly towards your enemy but it cannot make you love your enemy. So if the law is love, but the law cannot make me love how then do we obey the law?

We must follow the will of our father. What is the will of our father? To love
How does this make us love our enemy?

If I am traveling down a path and I have 3 choices, I can turn right and follow God, I can go straight and follow my usual path, or I can turn left and follow Satan’s path. What is waiting for me at the end of those 3 paths? If I turn right than I have followed God’s will, so whatever is down that path is God’s will for me, because I know that whatever is down that path is God’s will for me I can accept anything that is down that path. If I go straight and follow my usual path I can guess what is down that path because it is my usual path but I can’t know for certain. If I turn left down Satan’s path I can be sure that it leads to destruction. This is the purest definition of free will. I have the right to choose which path I want to go down but only one leads to what God wants for me.

Now here leads to a paradox, this fails to answer the question why do bad things happen to good people especially children. This may not be the easiest message but I would be a liar if I told you God’s path leads to an all loving spring of daisies while you are still on earth.

edit on 2-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Mark 9:49 Everyone will be salted with fire.

Hebrews 12:6 Because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

I will not try to go into detail as what these verses mean I think God is the authority in your life and is the only one that can truly explain this to you. But realize if you have experienced discipline and feel like at times you have been in hell, then believe that God wants to accept you as a son or daughter. God is not a liar.

Back to doing the will of God. So we can see that if we choose the path that is God’s will than it makes sense that only what is God’s will awaits us down that path. Remember what waited for Christ was the Crucifixion, I will not add scripture here but God says that whoever follows this path will face persecution.

Under the law we learned to fear God. We fear God because we are sinners who know that we have not followed his commands. As long as we live in fear we will not be able to accept him into our hearts. We will not be able to do the will of God until we allow him into our hearts. This was why the son Jesus Christ came. He came to offer Grace, the forgiveness of our sins. If you accept the forgiveness that is given to you freely you can now let God into your hearts. Because you are forgiven you know longer are afraid, you have accepted his loving gift of Grace. Jesus promised that anyone who had faith to accept Grace would receive the Holy Spirit. This is the very spirit from God that will teach you all things.


1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."

Ok so how does all of this make me follow the law of love? What the law was unable to do the will of God can indeed make you do. Now that I know if I follow my father’s will, I have taken the path that the Holy Spirit has guided me to take, I know that whatever I am confronted with was God’s will for me. If I choose my father’s path and the enemy confronts me I know my father has allowed my enemy to confront me. I also know that it is God’s will for me to love my enemy, first by scripture second by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Now that I know that I am being asked to love the enemy in front of me I can begin to realize that this person needs for me to love them. For if they did not need my love why would God have sent them to me. So now that I have accepted God’s will and know this person needs me I indeed do love them because I now have compassion for them. So what I previously saw as an enemy I now see as someone in need of love. Now I have loved my enemy and followed the law perfectly.

I feel that I need to add a little scripture to help everyone understand what God’s will is. Many of you have heard that you receive Grace by no works of your own. This is very true one needs only have faith that the son of God came in the flesh and has offered you this gift to receive Grace. But sadly the church often times ends the message here. My friends this is where the message starts. Once you accept Grace and the Holy Spirit you must allow yourself to be changed. You have heard many different messages about the meaning of the cross, and all are true, but the most important message is found here.


John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. “

Mathew 23: 38-39 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” 39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

Jesus came to do the will of his father. You see it was not his will to be crucified, for he prayed that the cup be taken from him. But he obeyed his father’s will and was indeed crucified. Just as Christ allowed his will to be nailed to the cross allow your will to be nailed to the cross. This is the how you have died to the law and can become alive in Christ Jesus. Once you nail your will to the cross and allow God’s will by the power of the Holy Spirit to lead you, you will become a changed person.
edit on 2-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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What about the Mustard Seed?


Mathew 13:31-32 31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

So you see when you accept Grace you have received a seed from God, the Holy Spirit. What must we do with a seed in order for it to grow? We must water it of course or it will not grow, and we must continue to water it or it will die. To water this seed you must nail your will to the cross, so that you can do the will of your father. You must read the word and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you through interpretation. If you nail your will to the cross daily and read the word daily the Holy Spirit will grow in you and you will become a light to the world.

I would like to add just a few more verses so that you may know the Holy Spirit by the fruit it produces. Again these verses also emphasize to both my brother and unbeliever that our journey only begins with Grace. Once we have received Grace there is a call to Holiness.


John 3:3-73 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

Through this message you have been given the key from the Holy Spirit, what you do with that key is now up to you. The choice is yours.


Rom. 6:16-18 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

With love and prayer for all, your brother in Christ Jesus.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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I have not fully engaged this thread-- just starting to read, but had a comment on this:



Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.


You stated something to the effect that those who would "nail the Law to the Cross" must respond to that. I won't agree to being such a one, but I'll take a swing at that pitch.

The Revelation to Saint John (21:1):


Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away...


So, in that light, what do the words recorded by Luke mean?


More generally addressing the OP...

Surely the law from which many Christians are taught they are now free (in the New Testament) refers to the ritual cleanliness and the religious punishments-- not the moral laws.

"The Sabbath was created for man; not man for the Sabbath."

I speculate:

That was not a new teaching; but, rather, that was a new-- and NOT obvious-- interpretation. It is a whole new and major perspective shift which Christianity is still trying to let settle (and the Jews, too; only with a lot more guilt!)-- very much making it different from other religions.

Surely the law of God promised one day that would be written in the hearts of man, and not needing to be rehearsed, might be reasonably understood to mean that man, living a spiritual life toward, in, and through God would discern the godly acts from the ungodly (and the benign acts from the malignant ones) and choose (to varying degrees of success) the better?

In the two thousand years of the Church's history, we see the failures to regard that new interpretation (e.g., Catholic "Spanish Inquisition" and Protestant "Witch Trials") as well as the extreme attempt to make too much of it so that no moral code has any meaning-- like the modern sexuality issues (I'm think of John Shelby Spong's desire to so open the doors of the Church to the whole world that nothing remained of faith and belief-- but only community. It fails because it is sort of like attempting to pry open that "eye of the needle" so that any camel can pass.

Yet, we see successes as well-- the almost cultural maxims of "love the sinner but hate the sin" and the seemingly easy way in which so many abandoned cultural norms to cross boundaries (much of the "Law" would seem to forbid) to stand united during the American Civil Rights movement-- that was very much a Church-driven movement.

On a larger scale-- the Church has increasingly divorced itself from being wed to the State. Its first 300 plus years were lived out under persecution, and then flipped to the other extreme-- an even less healthy extreme-- by wielding the power of the state (law-- lower case "L") to its shame.

But with comparatively minor (albeit, still concerning) exceptions; the worldwide Christian Church has increasingly divested itself of temporal power and focused upon the spiritual.

And that, it seems, was always the point of the Law (capital "L") which Christ Jesus expected us to learn-- despite the human yet ungodly allure of using it for power, self-righteousness, and the abuse of our perceived enemies.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


You have very valid points, but Revelation and the Hallel psalms do not say everyone gets to go to heaven ragardless of what you've done, they both indicate that anyone who rebels (goats) against God (Jesus the Messiah) will go into the lake of fire while the righteous (sheep) inherit the kingdom.

Psalms 111-118 deal with the great tribulation, psalm 119 deals with the millenial reign of Christ. The old law has merely been fulfilled, meaning Jesus covers our sorry asses if we fail, it doesn't not mean we have an unlimited license to be wicked. Jesus said "if you love me you will obey my commandments. What are his commandments? His commandments are what he taught. The book of Acts and Romans Paul repeatedly urges believers to not slack off in their faith to Christ or they may lose their chance for "The Lord's Rest". The book of Revelation indicates that the wicked shall be destroyed, the murderers, the idolaters, the sexually immoral, the liars etc. Which validates that those who continue to live in their sins shall be destroyed and shall not live to see his millenial reign.

The old law was designed to show the Israelites (and all men) that they cannot hope to live without God, that without him they would perish because even 1 sin no matter how trivial we might think it is enough to damn us forever and it was the mosaic laws Jesus came to shield us from, he didn't destroy the laws or negate them, he took the full force of the Father's wrath 2000 years ago (2000 years to us 2 days for him),



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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I think Paul addressed this very clearly in a time when people were still wondering if they were safe keeping the law because the message was now we are under grace by faith. Paul said this "the Gentiles by nature keep the law, and therefore are a law unto themselves".

What Paul was saying is this, we, by our very nature, are capable of keeping inward moral laws, therefore the law itself is inward. Gentiles know by nature they should not kill and they should worship God above all things. So we can apply this to pagans. They know by nature not to do immorality, and because the law is spiritual, they have then kept the law within themselves.

We also need to keep in mind the context of which the laws were given and we seem to have some disputes about what the laws actually are. Do we follow the 630 laws of Moses given to the Jews as they learned how to live together in the new society they now found themselves in, or is the law the 10 Commandments? The 10 Commandments came before the other societal laws, and those societal laws were given so they would have an organized religion. There is nothing wrong with the organized religion of the Jews and they understand God through them.

The 10 Commandments were given in a much broader sense, because it applies to all people. We should honor our parents and we should not covet our neighbor's goods or spouses. When the Pharisees asked Jesus what was the greatest law, He replied with "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself, on these two hang all the law and the prophets". Within the 10 Commandments, there are no dietary laws or even what to do on the Sabbath other than keep it holy. I believe it was the 10 Commandments that Jesus wants us to recognize because He did not reference the 630 laws of Moses.

Circumcision as a religious rite was established by Moses, but we know circumcision existed even in the time of Abraham. For the Jews, it became a symbol that identified them as belonging to the Jewish community. That became part of their identity as a people. Circumcision is not in the 10 Commandments, and Gentiles did not have to keep the law of circumcision, because they were not identified as part of the Jewish community.

Jesus was faithful to all the laws of Moses, He kept them in every point. But He knew that Gentiles would believe in Him and those Gentiles were not part of the Jewish community, therefore, for those not of the Jewish community, the 10 Commandments would apply. And the Gentiles keep those laws by their nature.

The greater laws were "love God and love thy neighbor as thyself". If we keep those, we have kept the law.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Frira
 


The new heaven and new earth will be void of sin. Without sin one needs no law. This is my opinion.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Frira
 


The new heaven and new earth will be void of sin. Without sin one needs no law. This is my opinion.


And without the law, there is no punishment of sin. I think it is the punishment that people don't want to hear about because they only want to hear about the rewards. If God only promised reward, then more people would accept.

But within every faith system, there is the concept of punishment for evil and reward for good. No matter what faith system a person falls toward, there will always be punishment for evil and reward for good. Even atheists will say a person deserves some punishment, and where does that concept come from? It comes from the inward understanding of moral laws. Atheists don't usually say that it is OK for people to be running around hurting others, they demand justice when a hurt is given.

The law is inward. Just because people say they don't believe in God, they do accept the concept of reward and punishment. They, without realizing, keep the laws of God.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I agree with you completely. Not everyone will do the will of the father and they will be judged by the law. For those that do the fathers will be judged by grace. I am not the judge so I won't speculate but I do agree with a quite literal interpretation of the bible, except where of course a non literal interpretation is the obvious intent. I believe my interpretation allows for grace and judgment to coexist. A philosophy the church has been divided on for at least 1500 years.
I also believe that my interpretation allows for an literal interpretation for many of the verses that have been difficult for all sides to explain. Since the simplest interpretation would be the least confusing, assuming you accept the philosophy, I argue that it must be correct. Simply on the basis that God is a good of order not confusion.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Yes I agree the law has been written on the heart of all. But it is the Holy Spirit that can free you from the burden of the law and allow you to live by Grace.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Yes I agree the law has been written on the heart of all. But it is the Holy Spirit that can free you from the burden of the law and allow you to live by Grace.


By not putting people in bondage to laws they can't keep. Remember the one of the young ruler when he came to Jesus. He was asked if he were going to have eternal life and Jesus said "Keep the laws" and the young man replied that he had indeed kept them. Jesus then told him to "take all your goods and sell them and give the money to the poor". The young man did not realize that he had not kept the fundamental truth of the law, which was "Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself".

We can beat ourselves up every day for not keeping the laws, but our sight should not be on keeping them just to keep them, but that we can keep them through the help of the Holy Spirit. It really is like this...one of the 10 Commandments says not to commit adultery. We know we should not commit adultery, but for those people who are involved in adultery, have they considered the damage they are doing to their spouse? They have sought an immediate gratification of their own lust and makes them selfish. Jesus taught that it was not just adultery, it was what caused them to commit adultery that needed to be addressed. He said "if you look on a woman, to lust after her, you have committed adultery with her already in your heart." It goes back to this, the heart of man is wicked above all else, who can understand it?

The Holy Spirit must reveal within us that our problems are created by our own wickedness. The change of heart comes only when we look at our own heart and see within us why we act on it. Sin itself is not something we just do, we do it after we have thought about it. That moment when people go out looking for a moment to commit adultery, they have already had that talk with themselves in order to find a justification to do it. That is what the law does, it teaches us where it is in us and then teaches us how to not do it. When we finally give ourselves over to the Spirit, that means we have acknowledged it is a sin. Grace comes when we realize we have this in us and determine to remove it from us. Grace says "now that you know what the problem is, you can become free from it".

People today understand it as this...the man in the mirror. Take a good look at the man in the mirror and if the reflection shows you whatever is there, you must change it. We can't change it on our own because the heart of wickedness has been bound up in us since we were children. Children just don't have the concept of why it is wrong until it has been shown. That is why we have "the age of accountability". When we reach that age when we understand why it is wrong.

No one commits sin though, without first considering within themselves if it is wrong to do.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I agree with you completely but that is a another topic all in itself. I created this as kind of a Christianity 101 purposely not getting into that depth. I think a lot of people and most of the church doesn't even understand the basic premise of Christ. I was thinking if one can't except the basic it would be futile to try and get into any more depth. I believe by your posts that the Holy Spirit is at work in you just as he is in me. With love and glory to God.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I agree with you completely but that is a another topic all in itself. I created this as kind of a Christianity 101 purposely not getting into that depth. I think a lot of people and most of the church doesn't even understand the basic premise of Christ. I was thinking if one can't except the basic it would be futile to try and get into any more depth. I believe by your posts that the Holy Spirit is at work in you just as he is in me. With love and glory to God.


It is so hard for me not to get into depth, because, after all, God gave us the foolish things to confound the wise. What the world calls foolish, it look into it, and what the church calls foolish, I look into it. I don't want to be wise in my own conceit, I want to know God. I have discovered, the more I know, the less I know.

I have learned this, the simplest thing is God Is. When we grasp that understanding, then we will know who we are. God Is, and it can't get any simpler than that.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


IF you chose to teach the message of Jesus... Why do you preach outside of his words?




posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


When the Sanhedrin put Jesus on trial they asked him "what are the 2 greatest laws?" and Jesus replied:" The First of the greatest 2 laws is to love the LORD your God with all you strength, all your heart and all your mind. The second law is to love your neighbor as you love yourself".

Summed up, these 2 greatest laws are the 10 commandments. The first 4 laws deal with loving the LORD our God and the last 6 have to do with loving our neighbors as we love ourselves (notice how God comes before Man always, nowadays we have Man putting himself before God always).

The creation has decided he is greater than his creator, welcome to God's wrath on earth, the great tribulation.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


You have very valid points, but Revelation and the Hallel psalms do not say everyone gets to go to heaven ragardless of what you've done, they both indicate that anyone who rebels (goats) against God (Jesus the Messiah) will go into the lake of fire while the righteous (sheep) inherit the kingdom.


Or...
sheep = brethren = Church
goats = non-Baptized and are judged on how they treat the "least of these my brethren"

So, while not universalism (everyone is saved); it is still a much wider door which He has opened.



The old law was designed to show the Israelites (and all men) that they cannot hope to live without God, that without him they would perish because even 1 sin no matter how trivial we might think it is enough to damn us forever and it was the mosaic laws Jesus came to shield us from, he didn't destroy the laws or negate them, he took the full force of the Father's wrath 2000 years ago (2000 years to us 2 days for him),


Nicely said. Reminds me of the words, "A perpetual sacrifice, once offered."



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Frira
 


The new heaven and new earth will be void of sin. Without sin one needs no law. This is my opinion.


And without the law, there is no punishment of sin. I think it is the punishment that people don't want to hear about because they only want to hear about the rewards.


Which is the entire basis behind those non believers who claim "your God must be evil and not as omnipotent or all loving as he claims, if he will not forgive the wicked for being wicked anyway"



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


You have very valid points, but Revelation and the Hallel psalms do not say everyone gets to go to heaven ragardless of what you've done, they both indicate that anyone who rebels (goats) against God (Jesus the Messiah) will go into the lake of fire while the righteous (sheep) inherit the kingdom.


Or...
sheep = brethren = Church
goats = non-Baptized and are judged on how they treat the "least of these my brethren"

So, while not universalism (everyone is saved); it is still a much wider door which He has opened.



The old law was designed to show the Israelites (and all men) that they cannot hope to live without God, that without him they would perish because even 1 sin no matter how trivial we might think it is enough to damn us forever and it was the mosaic laws Jesus came to shield us from, he didn't destroy the laws or negate them, he took the full force of the Father's wrath 2000 years ago (2000 years to us 2 days for him),


Nicely said. Reminds me of the words, "A perpetual sacrifice, once offered."


Exactly. Jesus came and sacrificed himself once and for all time. He didn't keep offering himself up like the jews sacrfices of animals every Rosh Hashana/Yom Kippur every year, he did it only once and as he said "it is accomplished" (or as i like to think he was saying "mission complete") before he breathed his last breath on the cross.
edit on 2-1-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


When the Sanhedrin put Jesus on trial they asked him "what are the 2 greatest laws?" and Jesus replied:" The First of the greatest 2 laws is to love the LORD your God with all you strength, all your heart and all your mind. The second law is to love your neighbor as you love yourself".

Summed up, these 2 greatest laws are the 10 commandments. The first 4 laws deal with loving the LORD our God and the last 6 have to do with loving our neighbors as we love ourselves (notice how God comes before Man always, nowadays we have Man putting himself before God always).

The creation has decided he is greater than his creator, welcome to God's wrath on earth, the great tribulation.


You are absolutely right. We are to love God with all that is in us. Without loving God, we will be unable to do the rest. Even if we think we are, we will not. And that's the kicker, as someone said. When we do keep those 10 commandments, we are keeping an inward law of morality that derives from nowhere else but God. People will say "that is nothing more than the Golden Rule", and it may be called that, but God put His laws in our hearts.

People have thought they got around God and say they keep the rest, when in reality, they don't and are not capable of doing so. I have seen people commit sex abuse of children and justify it by believing they love God. Both parts go hand in hand, loving God means you will love your neighbor. We see all around us those who say they love their neighbor, but they find nothing wrong when watching television or movies that justify and glorify it.

They say they love God, but their hearts are far from Him. And because their hearts are far from Him and bad things happen in the world and those in the world need help, God makes a way for people to still be helped. That is His great mercy on mankind, even though we are wicked and cruel to each other, there is still hope and help.

The laws were designed to help the innocent. There is no justice outside of the law. People think the law is mere punishment against them, but they never consider punishment for their own actions. That is called the law of reciprocity. They also do not consider that if they have been wronged, there is justice for them provided in the law.

Think of it like this, suppose someone says one day that the law of the land should not be followed or kept and laws are meant to be broken so they do away with the laws. Then someone breaks into their house and steals their belongings. That victim cannot be called a victim because there is no law that classifies them as such and therefore, no justice for that person. The one who robbed them cannot any longer be called a robber and no crime was committed.

The law is there to help and to bring justice. Without it, we are left with nothing. The child that was abused has the right to justice, because the laws of God say that child is innocent and was hurt. The laws of God then demand that perpetrator to come to justice and be accountable for what they did. The law is not about mere punishment, it is for justice. People only want justice for what people have done to them, and never for what they themselves have done to others. Sad thing, really.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Frira
 


The new heaven and new earth will be void of sin. Without sin one needs no law. This is my opinion.


And without the law, there is no punishment of sin. I think it is the punishment that people don't want to hear about because they only want to hear about the rewards.


Which is the entire basis behind those non believers who claim "your God must be evil and not as omnipotent or all loving as he claims, if he will not forgive the wicked for being wicked anyway"


So you're actually saying many of the authors of the OT will not be forgiven for their wickedness?





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