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posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Pimander
 


Insult me all you want. Remember, I'm looking at the source of the insults and laughing.

Element 115 is THE issue. It is physical proof. Lazar failed to deliver it. Hence everything else he has spewed is a lie.




posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Too bad for Bob he picked the side of a mountain that is viewed by thousands of people a day. He should have crafted his lie using another location.

You do realize that the so called S-4 can be seen from points west of highway 95. I've climbed both Sterling and Bonanza Peak to view it. There is nothing there. Google Earth shows nothing.

I don't care what Bob Lazar says. I deal in the facts.



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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It wouldn't be called gariac if one weren't that ignorant bypassing and ignoring all that is presented and stubbornly favoring one's beliefs of how someone he doesn't even know is a liar. Just because that ones fails to believe in anything that is out of the ordinary, ye ye such kinds stay closed in a box even 4life.

Trully told, I always considered some of the things Lazar revealed to be true. John Lear confirmed him, therefore he's a liar too right? The TV showman from Las Vegas confirmed his not a liar, he's a liar too right? Others can confirm some of the things (maybe not all were accurate) are true.

Also nice job A51Watcher, you regained my trust that you are a serious researcher and you have some interesting and rather true things to say.

Also gariac, stop insulting the things that others do to show there IS smth around all this t be true, if you are a horse with eye covers, it's your prob


Originally posted by gariac
Element 115 is THE issue. It is physical proof. Lazar failed to deliver it. Hence everything else he has spewed is a lie.


That's what makes skeptics just wannabeskeptics - someone is saying smth, he's found to have some missing things, notice missing or inaccurate - thus ALL he says is a lie.

Lie is you, do you know how disinfo works? Mix true things with fake and make crap out of it, no one will believe it right? This is the perfect way to cover information - by ridiculing it. And therefore ALL has to be fake - Wrong! ..
edit on 20-1-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Too bad for Bob he picked the side of a mountain that is viewed by thousands of people a day. He should have crafted his lie using another location.

You do realize that the so called S-4 can be seen from points west of highway 95. I've climbed both Sterling and Bonanza Peak to view it. There is nothing there. Google Earth shows nothing.

I don't care what Bob Lazar says. I deal in the facts.


Nevermind it is due south and slightly west from groom lake. I was confused thinking it was slightly east!

Anyway it is still close to the Nellis Range border and probably 15-20 minute bus ride.

How do you expect to see any facility that is extremely well camoflagued? Remember it is BUILT-IN to the slooping hill so unless you walk a few feet away from it chances are you would be none the wiser.

Seriously dude you are grasping at straws when lots of people claim ufo&alien activity there.
edit on 1/20/2012 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Imtor
 


Ah yes, more personal insults. Call me a liar. Be my guest.

Trust me, I can blow holes into the Bob Lazar story all day. Let's take his "erased college education." Anyone who has studied science or engineering in college had labs. In lab, you have a lab partner. Funny how nobody remembers going to school with Bob Lazar. Funny how there is no thesis on file.

No evidence whatsoever of a S-4 facility. The spot is viewed from airplanes, hiking, and satellite. Nothing.

OK, fake education proven. Fake facility proven. You are still sidestepping the element 115 sample, or lack thereof.

The keyword with Lazar is fake.

Video of Lazar believers in the link:
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


There is a Site-4 near the TTR. That is where Lazar got the idea for S-4. In any event, Lazar is the one that said it was in Papoose Mountain, so why should it be anywhere else? I've seen that side of the mountain with binocs. I have photographed it. I have looked at it on Google Earth. Nothing is there.

Note the secret base always has to be underground. If it was above ground, it is too easy to debunk the story. Thus when you spin a tail, put it deep underground. That makes it harder to debunk. However, there is no evidence of travel to this facility. You drive a road enough in the desert, it gets rutted. You blade the road, and the blade cut shows. Oh wait, let me guess, there is a secret underground tunnel to the secret underground base, even though Bob said he took the bus.

Site-4 is an easily viewed facility south of the TTR. Well as easily as 25 miles of off road driving and a short hike.
www.lazygranch.com...



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


There is a Site-4 near the TTR. That is where Lazar got the idea for S-4. In any event, Lazar is the one that said it was in Papoose Mountain, so why should it be anywhere else? I've seen that side of the mountain with binocs. I have photographed it. I have looked at it on Google Earth. Nothing is there.

Note the secret base always has to be underground. If it was above ground, it is too easy to debunk the story. Thus when you spin a tail, put it deep underground. That makes it harder to debunk. However, there is no evidence of travel to this facility. You drive a road enough in the desert, it gets rutted. You blade the road, and the blade cut shows. Oh wait, let me guess, there is a secret underground tunnel to the secret underground base, even though Bob said he took the bus.

Site-4 is an easily viewed facility south of the TTR. Well as easily as 25 miles of off road driving and a short hike.
www.lazygranch.com...


I corrected my previous post, so take a look at it. Looking at possible facilities with binoculars will not cut it and since the entire papoose range is a restricted area there is no way of "touching the mountain" to see what is cloaking the facility.

The entire area is camoflagued to prevent russian and chineese satellites from spying.



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by gariac
 

People on ATS DO NOTICE if you are dishonest. Sort your shop out, no amount of pleading will get you out of it. Unlike you I have been HONEST. :shk:



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Imtor
Trully told, I always considered some of the things Lazar revealed to be true. John Lear confirmed him, therefore he's a liar too right? The TV showman from Las Vegas confirmed his not a liar, he's a liar too right? Others can confirm some of the things (maybe not all were accurate) are true.
Quoted for serendipity, that is nearly sig worthy.


If John Lear isn't a liar then he needs to be medicated and institutionalized. I know for a fact that he got booted from ATS for petty, dishonest behavior so I personally have every reason to believe he is the former.

Yes, in my estimation John Lear is a liar and fraud preying on the uneducated and gullible.

Regarding Bob Lazar, the vast preponderance of the evidence suggests he is a liar as well.

You folks do understand that Ununpentium only exists for a fraction of a second before it decays into 236 Uut (Ununtrium)? When the half life of an elements most stable isotope is measured in milliseconds, it makes for a bit of a challenge to sneak a piece home in your lunch box wouldn't you think?

Lastly, a word of advice for consideration.

Gariac has probably forgotten more about that part of the Mojave desert than most of you will ever know. If you are just interested in repeating internet nonsense then please continue, however if you are interested in truth and historical fact you might do well to listen.

Remember kids, even though its the internet manners are still free....


My two cents....

Edit: George Knapp panders to tabloid journalism and doesn't lend Lazar's story any more credibility than an endorsement by Art Bell.
edit on 20-1-2012 by Drunkenparrot because: syntax



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by A51Watcher
 


Perhaps instead of insulting me again, you could answer the question: where is the element 115 Bob Lazar claims to have. It is a simple question.




Sorry to see you continue to have memory problems. Let me refresh your memory:



Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by A51Watcher
 


Where are the 3 pieces of element 115 that Bob allegedly had?

Please stop avoiding this question.



reply by A51Watcher

I never avoid questions.


I do however answer them in their proper order. I will answer that question AFTER you have answered the questions already put to you, that you are avoiding.

The current question in line waiting an answer from you is:

1) Did we also forget all the other witnesses who confirmed this to George Knapp during his investigation in the same video provided above?

5 I believe was the number. Have any idea who they might be?



Please stop avoiding this question.



AFTER you answer this question, I will answer your question... in it's turn. That's how a debate works, and like it or not, you are posting on a debate forum. Comprende?



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Regarding Bob Lazar, the vast preponderance of the evidence suggests he is a liar as well.



Not so.

I take it you claim to be aware of - and an expert on - the 'vast preponderance of the evidence'?



...When the half life of an elements most stable isotope is measured in milliseconds, it makes for a bit of a challenge to sneak a piece home in your lunch box wouldn't you think?


Where did you get this disinformation about him sneaking a piece home in his lunchbox?


Any idea on what the actual method claimed was?



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Lastly, a word of advice for consideration.

Gariac has probably forgotten more about that part of the Mojave desert than most of you will ever know. If you are just interested in repeating internet nonsense then please continue, however if you are interested in truth and historical fact you might do well to listen.



And his alleged knowledge of the Mojave desert has ZERO to do with his knowledge of the Lazar case, which, judging by his refusal to answer simple yes or no questions, is also close to zero.



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by A51Watcher
 


Lazar, assuming he is still alive, can't escape the claim he has some element 115. He showed it to George Knapp. Well unless, gasp, Bob Lazar is a liar!



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by A51Watcher
 


I'm not on trial here. Bob Lazar's story is on trial. Of course Lazar doesn't even bother to defend it any more. I can't even remember the last time he did Coast. His website is down.

I simply blow apart Lazar's fiction with common sense. If you possess something, you can deliver the goods. Lazar never had his element 115 analyzed. Why? Because whatever he had wasn't element 115. He didn't want to be proven to be a fraud.

Use a little common sense here. If the government has some alien technology, do you really think they would assign the task to Bob Lazar. Maybe the government has (gasp) a few better scientists at their disposal than Bob Lazar. Remember, he was just a contract employee at Los Alamos.

You can't erase someone's college record. It would take a huge conspiracy to do that, starting right with the SAT results he had them mail to MIT to be accepted.



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by gariac
 


The current question in line waiting an answer from you is:

1) Did we also forget all the other witnesses who confirmed this to George Knapp during his investigation in the same video provided above?

5 I believe was the number. Have any idea who they might be?



Please stop avoiding this question.



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by gariac
 

People on ATS DO NOTICE if you are dishonest. Sort your shop out, no amount of pleading will get you out of it. Unlike you I have been HONEST. :shk:


That's very true!

Even if readers are unfamiliar with subject matter, they DO NOTICE who is being dishonest and evasive.

In this case it has become tediously obvious to all readers who is full of it and who is not.


Now to be fair, I must admit that the controversy and debate about this case, is not as one- sided as his horrendous performance makes it appear to be. Just because he is a crap debunker doesn't mean they all are and have no valid points to be addressed.

If none of them show up to make the case, I will do it for them, if nothing else to provide a complete picture.


Edit to add: When it comes to ego's... the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Thus.. ANY admission of ignorance is a crushing blow to someone who claims to know all. That is the reason for the seen evasiveness.




edit on 21-1-2012 by A51Watcher because: A-D-D lol



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


Are you some advocate of gariac? Even if this could be truth mixed with lie that does not mean all is a lie. The Uut element part could be made up, why does this exclude the clue that there could be very much (or have been) reverse engineered saucers in Area 51? And don't give me someone stubborn and ignorant like gariac, it's one thing to not believe all but tapping your years, your eyes in 'I don't hear you, I only believe what I think' .. please.

It's always like that, and this is pathetic - I see it all the time, some discrepancy is found, 'red button BEEP' - all is fake. None of you here are any close to even lowest clearance to decide what is true and what not.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by A51Watcher
 


I'm not on trial here. Bob Lazar's story is on trial. Of course Lazar doesn't even bother to defend it any more. I can't even remember the last time he did Coast. His website is down.

I simply blow apart Lazar's fiction with common sense. If you possess something, you can deliver the goods. Lazar never had his element 115 analyzed. Why? Because whatever he had wasn't element 115. He didn't want to be proven to be a fraud.

Use a little common sense here. If the government has some alien technology, do you really think they would assign the task to Bob Lazar. Maybe the government has (gasp) a few better scientists at their disposal than Bob Lazar. Remember, he was just a contract employee at Los Alamos.

You can't erase someone's college record. It would take a huge conspiracy to do that, starting right with the SAT results he had them mail to MIT to be accepted.


Perhaps Bob Lazar didn't have element 115 analysed because of other reasons such as further threats from the state. I would have done the same. My families safety is paramount. Another reason could be the response Lazar received to his claims - perhaps he felt submitting it would have been worthless.

Regardless of whether there were better government scientists or not you have to remember that they would have recruited like any other 'normal' employer. Lazar probably fitted the bill well for the job he purportedly had, he certainly had that look of a geeky loner who would keep tight-lipped. What difference would it have made if Lazar was a full-time employee at Los Alamos?

You can erase records of any sort, the government has that power. Records of exam results, addresses, etc would have been kept on computer and likely deleted when Lazar started work. It happens, trust me.

I've always been on the fence when it comes to Bob Lazar so I speak from a neutral standpoint.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by gariac
 


The current question in line waiting an answer from you is:
1) Did we also forget all the other witnesses who confirmed this to George Knapp during his investigation in the same video provided above?

5 I believe was the number. Have any idea who they might be?
Please stop avoiding this question.


Here's a link, it's not like it is secret info:
www.dreamlandresort.com...

A suggestion to anyone who has any doubt that Lazar's tale is, how can I put this politely.... "fabrications of an intelligent mind" ( and I use the term intelligent loosely...), I suggest you read further:
www.dreamlandresort.com...

March 22, 1989: First Wednesday night trip to Tikaboo Valley to view disc test.
Observers were Bob Lazar, Tracy Lazar, Gene Huff and John Lear, using Lear's RV. Lear was the only one who saw the elliptical shaped light through a telescope and the total sighting lasted about 7 minutes. (1)

March 29, 1989: Second Wednesday night trip to view test.
Observers were Bob Lazar, Tracy Lazar, Gene Huff and Jim Tagliani. They took a videotape of a moving light with a timestamp of 8:30 PM shown on the tape. (1) (2) (9)

April 5, 1989: Third Wednesday night trip to view test.
Observers were Bob Lazar, Tracy Lazar, her sister, Gene Huff and John Lear. They were discovered by guards and detained and questioned by the Lincoln County Sheriff. (1) (14)


Are you one of the 5, A51Watcher? You seem to have some connection to this incident that you can't or won't disclose.
edit on 21-1-2012 by FosterVS because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-1-2012 by FosterVS because: RL = Bob Lazar



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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^ Even if so, that does't change the fact that Lazar may have presented himself as someone he knew that did all that.. reverse engineered aircraft whether with another technology not Uut. Or Lazar may have covered up that other person in that way.
edit on 22-1-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)





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