chemtrails over Florida 01-01-2012

Originally posted by killemall
New evidence has arrived proving contrails are just a hoax and chemtrails really have been around from the beginning of fuel powered flight.
I put it to anyone to prove a contrail from a plane ever really did exist and is not a chemical trail.

OK - how about the guy who made "What in the World are they Spraying"?

Michael J Murphy says that contrails exist, that they can persist, and what's more he cannot actually tell them apart from chemtrails except by testing their chemical content (which AFAIK he has never actually done!)- see 1.25 into this:



And just as an aside he says that WW2 bombers that made persistent contrails flew at "very low altitude".......and people actually believe this guy??

Hoax contrails are created and consist of hot exhaust fuel vapours mixed with cool air.
So there we have the evidence finally to put these silly contrail myths away for good and refer to the correct term chemical trail, contrails debunked

And what "evidence" is that - you saying it is true??

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by mcsandy

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood your post, but are you saying that because crop spraying works, chemtrails may be the same thing?

Firstly, crop spraying was never a secret, it was publicised from the very start. There were secret military spraying operations, which are now known about, but the common characteristic they shared with crop spraying is that, when done from the air, it was at low level from relatively slow moving aircraft. I said when done from the air because some of the experiments were done spraying from vehicles on the ground. This is essential in order to put whatever substance it is where you want it.

An airliner at 30,000ft and 600mph is not targeting anything at all, not only would the dissipation reduce anything sprayed to nothingness, but contrails,which are made up of ice crystals as cirrus clouds are, never come down at all, cirrus clouds do not ever result in rain or snowfall.

Something else to consider if pondering the idea of high flying jets spraying a vapourous substance at a target on the ground is the following;

As I mentioned, these airliners are flying at 600mph and 30,000ft and above.

During WW2, the infamous 1,000 bomber raids flown by RAF Bomber Command consisted of fleets of Lancasters, Halifax's etc each carrying 10-14 x 1,000lb iron bombs. They flew at between 10 - 15,000ft and cruised at 200mph

Of these 10,000 bombs, anything falling within 4 miles of the target was considered a hit, the target being not a specific point on the ground, but an entire city. This is because dropping an inanimate object from the air onto a specific target is extremely difficult the higher you go, modern bombs utilise steering fins and laser designators to get them where they are wanted.

The idea that a vapour spray, at the mercy of random air currents,can be targeted at all is plain silly, that it can be done from three times faster and higher than these huge bombs were dropped is beyond ludicrous.

edit on 2-1-2012 by waynos because: Clarification

I apologize that I can't cut & crop specified info currently too painfull to do so; and I am using a dinosaur laptop that actually has a floppy drive!! I was told by my grandgather who was in the Army - Paratrooper during the Korean war and he spoke of the fact that they were spraying all over the world where vegetation was planted -for the foes - they wanted to depleat vegeation so the vietcong would have no where to hide and supposedly for the commoners it was a herbecide - chemicals which were being used for biological and environmental reasons from wwI through the Korean wars; also stated it had been used as research on crops in the US to enhance crop production as well as other classified reasons. He also learned that it was not only being used in WWI, II and Korea but actually over citizens while being told it was only exhaust from the "newly" crafted airplanes which also assisted to alleviate extreme weather exposure during the wars. I am speaking from a remedial from a remedial perpective I know but I learned of this when I was around 12, and he passed before the internet became the vehicle of knowledge has we know it today.

I had researched this a few months ago due to my strange illnesses; where I was raised in a small rural farming town in GA and recalled him speaking about the "new method they were coining crop dusting," that would assist farmers in killing parasites of crops and were testing on the rice fields of Korea. I have a terrible immune system and have mouth sores that can flare up all over my mouth but also have flare ups within my endocrine system, neurotransmitters "mis-firing" and chronic fatigue and joint pain. After much research I do believe that when crop dusting was noticed TPTB had not only changed the definition of general exhaust to crop dusting because chemtrails became the new or next level of munipulation of our environment and crops - of TPTB as well as stating that "regular" passenger planes only emmitted contrails.

I had an entire notepad of links on my new acer laptop which crapped out within the 90 days of purchase and I can't recall where all the TRUE or more credible sourced documentation of con and chemtrails are but I did reall a couple of sites that offers more details. Of course there is wiki - but I think that site has a lot of disinfo mixed in with augmented realities.

Here are a few of the sites...

www.dldewey.com...

forum.prisonplanet.com...

www.fsyduaonfyj.nogw.com...

english.pravda.ru...

www.landscaper.net...

No room to offer a synopse of each, enough to form your own opinion

Originally posted by mcsandy


I was told by my grandgather who was in the Army - Paratrooper during the Korean war and he spoke of the fact that they were spraying all over the world where vegetation was planted -for the foes - they wanted to depleat vegeation so the vietcong would have no where to hide and supposedly for the commoners it was a herbecide - chemicals which were being used for biological and environmental reasons from wwI through the Korean wars; also stated it had been used as research on crops in the US to enhance crop production as well as other classified reasons. He also learned that it was not only being used in WWI, II and Korea but actually over citizens while being told it was only exhaust from the "newly" crafted airplanes which also assisted to alleviate extreme weather exposure during the wars.

I think there are 2 different things here - firstly is the US spraying of "defoliant" in Vietnam - this was the infamous "Agent Orange" and it has caused all sorts of problems for anyone exposed to it ever since.

However AFAIK the actual problem with AO was not so much the defoliants, as the fact that it contained a dioxin - which was not actually part of the requirement and was a contaminant. The herbicides themselves of course are not something you would want to bathe in, but it was the Dioxin that was the real problem.

The 2nd issue, I think, might be the use of DDT in WW2 and Korea, and through the 1950's and 1960's?

DDT was actually seen as a "miracle medicine" because it wiped out mosquito's and vastly lowered the sickness rates for allied troops from malaria. So it was dusted and sprayed everywhere - it was used to treat a typhus outbreak in Naples in 1943 for example -

Of course subsequently the effects on the ecology are now unacceptable along with other persistent insecicides...although DDT remains available as one of the weapons against malaria.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Michael J Murphy says that contrails exist....

THAT video clip illustrates precisely the sort of MIS-INFORMATION that is repeated, on "chemtrail" websites again and again....And WHY this MYTH and HOAX of so-called "chemtrails" keeps being spread...

....spread amongst the innocent and gullible, and often "pumped" into the "InterWebs" by the con-artists and charlatans....

They WANT this mis-information out there....they THRIVE on it!!!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Did you read or glance through the links I posted? All of them have some strong intel there, and the mention and speak to the points you are making as well as to the ones I have made. Unfortunately I can't view the vid of your reply on this antiquated comp....too slow - buffering too long. But it states explicitly that chemtrails are real and have been since ww1. The first site mentions the patents on the poisons. All the sites are worth reading or at least glancing through on behalf of the fact that no my friend these streams of "whatever" up in the sky is far from harmless and is not general exhaust, or pesticide or herbicide. One site even speaks of genetically modified mosquitos were released back 1942 with ill intentions (which there is a new thread on ATS now - mentioning the release of genetically modified mosquitos as of a wee or so ago - like it is the first time.)

reply to post by mcsandy


I have seen all those sites before - I have not seen anything on them that is credible evidence of chemtrails at all.

reply to post by mcsandy


Edit....I failed to mention that I rushed to find the sites I listed and had to glance through while preparing dinner, cleaning up from it and scurring kiddies to bath. I myself had to glance through quickly but they seemed to hit the highlights of the point I was trying to make. Whatever is being sprayed has been reconized as a hazard to humans and is linked to various syndromes/illnesses.

reply to post by mcsandy


"linked" as in people have blamed it for all sorts of things without actually providing any credible evidence at all.

Certainly jt exhaust is not something you would like to breathe - any more than car or truck exhaust.

But that is all it is - exhaust - pollution - just like burning hydrocarbons has always been pollution.

Why is it that all chemtrail threads get derailed by the same people trying to convince everyone that they are regular contrails?

Just leave the believers be! I'd actually like to see this get discussed without being derailed by the non-believers for just once. I live in Florida and know that chemtrails, yes chemtrails, happen year round no matter what time of the day or night.

I've seen the patents on the chemicals. China is more than open about their activities regarding weather modification. The US is the last country who will admit that this is what's going on above our heads.

So, please, let us believers discuss chemtrails without the naysayers wrecking our threads by turning them into a "no such thing" debunkers' paradise. Okay?

Besides, not one of the debunkers can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that even one of those planes in the sky is releasing a chemtrail among the contrails.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I live in Florida and know that chemtrails, yes chemtrails, happen year round no matter what time of the day or night.

Well if dodgy chemicals ARE being sprayed, then I would like to know it.

But I resent being told something is happening that could b equite inimical to my health, and then no evidnce is produced - it makes me wonder what these people are hiding with their silliness!!

I've seen the patents on the chemicals.

Patents are not things that you'd expect to see for a SECRET programme though are they?? And also patents do not mean something is actually being used - there are websites for silly patents, and many patents are never more than someone's bright idea.

China is more than open about their activities regarding weather modification. The US is the last country who will admit that this is what's going on above our heads.

Rubbish - weather modification is cloud seeding, and i is public knowledge in the USA - there are companies that specialise in it, in at least some places you have to take out public notices in newspapers in advance of it.

Here's an ATS thread abou 1 such public notice - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Besides, not one of the debunkers can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that even one of those planes in the sky is releasing a chemtrail among the contrails.

Also known as argument from ignorance - if yuo calim something IS happening they the burden of proof is on you to substantiate that claim.

And in fact I can use evidence of absence as justification for saying chemtrails do not exist - because if they did here would be something to be found - chemicals, whistle-blowers, equipment, manuals, aircraft weight and balance changes, transporters, substances in the fuels, etc - NONE of these has ever been actually produced - from the supposed millions of "chemtrails", and the whole worldwide effort to "investigate" them over the last 13 or so years.

Where is it all??

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Afterthought

Well if dodgy chemicals ARE being sprayed, then I would like to know it.

Great! Then, please allow discussion.

Patents are not things that you'd expect to see for a SECRET programme though are they??

Maybe you should ask Monsanto that question.

Rubbish - weather modification is cloud seeding,

Please show me proof that it does not involve more than this. Sure, I'm well aware of cloud seeding, but how can you be so sure that this doesn't include experiments with other types of weather modification or technologies?

Besides, not one of the debunkers can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that even one of those planes in the sky is releasing a chemtrail among the contrails.

Also known as argument from ignorance - if yuo calim something IS happening they the burden of proof is on you to substantiate that claim.

And in fact I can use evidence of absence as justification for saying chemtrails do not exist - because if they did here would be something to be found - chemicals, whistle-blowers, equipment, manuals, aircraft weight and balance changes, transporters, substances in the fuels, etc - NONE of these has ever been actually produced - from the supposed millions of "chemtrails", and the whole worldwide effort to "investigate" them over the last 13 or so years.

Where is it all??

Like I stated, if all of you naysayers would relax a bit so this stuff could be discussed, we might be able to get to the nitty gritty. You say that it is our burden of proof, but how can we even get to this point if the threads are always derailed? Besides, any proof will be scoffed at and you know it.

The burden of proof lies on everyone. If you're convinced that they are ALL contrails, please prove why a chemtrail, or more than one, couldn't be hidden in plain sight among the regular contrails? What chemical or mixture of chemtrails could produce a mist that can dissipate like the contrails you speak of? I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to do.

My theory is that drones are spraying chemtrails. This is the perfect explanation as to why no pilots have come forward. Remote controlled unmanned drones are the perfect decoy for spraying chemicals that the public sector shouldn't know about.

edit on 3-1-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Afterthought


No the burden of proof does not lie with everyone - it lies with those making the claims.

My only claim is that what people say are chemtrails look and behave exactly like contrails have always looked and behaved - which has been proven time after time.

So - on to you claim of drones - so where are these drones? Who makes them? Who services them and fill them with whatever they are spraying? Who manufactures it? How is it transported? Why doesn't it turn up in air samples?

And why is it that worldwide, people say that commercial airliners are making chemtrails?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Those are all excellent questions that I would like to see answered as well. So, with that being said, can the chemtrail thread continue as if they exist and allow conspiratorial minds to engage their research abilities and out-of-the-box thinking capabilities to get these questions addressed?

I'm suggesting we look at Boeing. They have more government contracts than any other aerial company out there. We also need to investigate any companies that may be linked with Boeing who may be involved with chemicals and/or aerial equipment.

I myself do not know much about airplanes or aviation, but I am smart enough to know that this needs to be discussed openly without people scoffing at it left and right.

reply to post by Afterthought


There are no threads on ATS that are off limits to anyone.......you should know that!

Why do you want to be "left alone" with your views on contrails?.....this wouldn't be much of a site if only one point of view were put across would it?

Back to the subject matter in hand......what do you think we are being sprayed with?.....and what do you think it is doing to us?

p.s

Cloud seeding is a given, the world and his wife know that occurs.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Just speaking about a shaving off the top of the first site....isn't a patent credible?

reply to post by Argyll


Please! Left alone with my views? You're twisting my objective.

I simply would like to see a chemtrail thread get discussed without the naysayers derailing it. What's wrong with this? I think it should be a practical request on ATS. The ability for like minds to come together to discuss something without the discussion getting derailed.

If the naysayers would calm down, we could actually get around to discussing naval air bases, the most popular planes used in Florida, the most traveled flight paths. The areas where more chem/contrails (depending on viewpoint) are seen most readily, etc., ect.,

I don't believe this an obtuse way of thinking or radical request whatsoever.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Afterthought

 

No the burden of proof does not lie with everyone - it lies with those making the claims.

My only claim is that what people say are chemtrails look and behave exactly like contrails have always looked and behaved - which has been proven time after time.

May I ask where is the proof that "contrails" are perfectly harmonious and harmless to our environment, to the living and breathing? Have you ever known someone with a devastating illness but it is dubbed a "syndrome" and causes great pain and anguish? Have you had to suffer with various syndromes that the dr.s can only symptomatically treat and have no idea to a cure nor a name of what ailes you or those that you love? Lastly...depend on the system known as medicaid to try and treat the craziness that is errupting out/through your body and they have spent years 12+ of study and look to you to hopefully have an answer. I live this existence. There IS/ARE tons of evidence - you do have to research and source it but it is out there and you my friend are mistaken believing the CONtrails are what they are and harmless. Have you heard of someone committing suicide by closing their garage door and turning on their car and sat there for a few hours until their life is totally drowned by exhaustion from the engine which in plane terms would be "contrails." I say roll in a small plane into a hanger and crank it up and hang out with no ventillation a take in the harmless fumes that become contrails in air. I bet you would be led out in a body bag. Is that credible enough?

There are too many syndromes, cancers, respiratory problems, skin disorders, ETC!!! to deny what what the government is cooking!!! I mean no disrespect but if you live with illnesses and have no where to turn you have to educate yourself and if you are fortunate enough to haven't had the need to do so....thank the diety you believe and ask that you won't have to experience any medical annomaly.


So - on to you claim of drones - so where are these drones? Who makes them? Who services them and fill them with whatever they are spraying? Who manufactures it? How is it transported? Why doesn't it turn up in air samples?

WAY off topic!!!!

And why is it that worldwide, people say that commercial airliners are making chemtrails?

The same reason they are saying factories and cars are causing global warming.

Originally posted by mcsandy
Just speaking about a shaving off the top of the first site....isn't a patent credible?

Sure... If there is a patent for it it must exist:
Motorized Ice Cream Cone Patent

Originally posted by mcsandy
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Just speaking about a shaving off the top of the first site....isn't a patent credible?

A patent is what it is - the codification of an idea - nothing more or less.

The existence of a patent is not evidence that the article is actually in use - many things get made without patents, and many patented items never get produced.

If the Welsbach materials were actually in use, for example, then you'd expect them to be being produced somewhere - you'd expect to find them in atmospheric samples, someone manufacturing it, some aircraft actually equipped to apply it ("spray" it) - where are they??

The powder contrail patent is even more obvious - it is a device that would be fitted to an aircraft somewhere - it's original purpose is to mark aerial targets - it is designed to be as visible as possible, but to not need a heat source so that unpowered targets can still be seen.

Again - where are they? The chemtrails that everyone sees in the sky always come from engines or the wole width of a wing for aerodynamic ones, or very occasionally from air-conditioning packs, so at the most basic level have nothing to do with this at all.

Once again I must reiterate my intent here.

I am not interested in the debate over what is in the exhaust, but you would be incorrect thinking jet exhaust is 100% water vapor.

If this is chemtrailing getting rid of it will solve the problem or at least remove a variable.

I am only interested in clearing the skies by whatever means is necessary!

I appreciate the positive feedback by both sides on this topic, but why do we insist on arguing over something that we can all see? I don't care what it is! It is interfering with our lives and affecting our solar power industry. I am sure it also affects plant life to some extent, but I have no way of testing that.

A couple of points which are undeniable by anyone with a brain:

1. Anything lofted into the atmosphere WILL drop back to earth at some point.

2. Chemtrails/persistent contrails/sky turds exist and are caused by airplanes.

Something MUST be done about this. Setting a standard will help jump-start engineering changes and lead to the removal of persistent trails in the sky. Any debate that ignores the existence of sky turds is false, denial is not an answer.

They exist and they should not. They come from airplanes. They need to go away. It really IS that simple.