Why the Fifth fleet can eliminate the entire Iranian Navy in the Strait of Hormuz

reply to post by apodictic


I suggest you read the whole thread before you comment I've already mentioned nukes.

And yes America is a nobody the whole country is a downward spiral same as the uk we are both in so much debt.

America likes to think its top dog but it really isn't anymore.

I hope you're right, as I personally care more about the 5th fleet than Iran. However, I'm not so optimistic. I think there are too many wild cards in the deck, such as Russia or China.

Originally posted by simples
Did you get dragged into Vietnam ?? Did you get dragged into Iraq?? Did you get dragged into Afghanistan??

Well not me per se but yes 1: gulf of tonkin staged by UK Zio tards, 2: 9/11 done by UK Zio tards, 3: War against Russia done by UK Zio tards.

No Americans except the dumb ones, are following the CFR's lead. No UK Zio royal house wars for me thanks. But yes, Rambo and Fallujah Dude and Helmand Province Dude all got lied to by their recruiters and by their commander in chief. Don't blame the COTUS for our leaders or our voters. Many many good people don't vote so the power is merely assumed, it's not real. Eventually Americans will take their nation away from UK Zio powers but we got bushwhacked by the Federal Reserve Act and our grandfathers are still punch drunk from that UK Zio haymaker.

Nope all first boots on the ground was American hell you wouldn't of come into WW2 if it wasn't for pearl harbor.

Exactly why the Federal Reservist Jacob Schiff and Co and their Jesuit chums have always used Japan as their tool. UK/Zio Rothschild Vatican schemes there, nothing to do with America. Yes, thanks for making my point.

reply to post by simples


Sadly, I have to agree with a lot of what you said.

As a Marine, I agree with you about our Army. In Afghanistan we would patrol, say, in a staggered column formation. No one would talk, we would all focus on the mission. We would see some Army guys on a patrol all walking down the middle of the freakin street talking and laughing. They get better gear than us, but we make due with what we have. We are more disciplined, get better training, and take combat seriously. Not to say there's not specific units in the Army who aren't damn fine soldiers, including the Rangers, but for the most part our Army doesn't know WTF they're doing. It's sad to see. Our government is recruiting the Army specifically for an increase in numbers. Their basic training is a joke. Their Drill Sergeants are barely allowed to even yell at them anymore. There's no way that can prep them for combat. I served along side some Royal Marines and they're great guys. Some of the funniest guys I've met and very professional.

As a whole, though, the United States shouldn't be messed with. We all see how willing the "higher ups" are to go to war. We all know the weapons we are capable of deploying, and the implications of what would happen if they were deployed. If we are attacked the US WILL use nuclear force.

We are a super power in the sense that no one really has the balls to mess with us. Rightly so.

reply to post by simples


"Nobody" shouldn't be the wording of choice.. Everyone knows America. A nobody would be a country like Monaco, Naru, or Tuvalu.

This thread is unbe#inglieveable have none of you googled the straight of hurmuz at it's narrowest point is 50 miles wide with multiple islands around it and you're telling me that it's only the NAVY that's going to get involved if it gets to that..........go back to school or the marine task force you claim to represent you make me sick.

reply to post by apodictic


I will call it quits totally agree with you the British army is respected and known as the best in the world well not no more we have the same problems basic trainings a joke recruiting well that's getting better we are not just taking anyone and they have just cut the army to less than 100.000 that's not army it's a joke.

Look don't get me wrong America is a powerfull country and I for one wouldn't like to go to war with you but it's just some Americans let the whole country down by presuming your this big massive unstoppable nation well presumption is the mother of all f**k ups.

What's the range of thése Iranian speed boats? Wouldn't it make sense to pull an aircraft carrier out of the range of the estimated fuel tanks of these boats and their alleged swarm tactics and screen it with the rest of the battle group? Then you have a case of the carrier group being basically able to do what it wants, hit what it wants and the main target the carrier itself sits completely out of harms way slinging planes and helos with marines on at predetermined targets already given a massive whacking. If the fleet has to clear the straits it won't be until everything inside it and either side of it for hundreds of miles has been stamped on repeatedly. Maybe I'm being simple I have no military knowledge that's just how I see it from my collection of books and tv info next to my armchair.

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by apodictic

 

And yes America is a nobody the whole country is a downward spiral same as the uk we are both in so much debt.

America likes to think its top dog but it really isn't anymore.

I agree. America really has only two choices now.
Stand down, go home, and pray that everyone we have screwed over in the last century will forgive us. Or...
Launch.

reply to post by amkia


What you think their tech will some how magically outclass that of the allies?

reply to post by simples


Yeah, I agree. Most of the people who think that are the ones who haven't even had military service and seen what it's like from the inside. Our Marine Corps is cutting down, too. If anything the Army should cut down and they should train more Marines. It's getting pathetic.

reply to post by smallpeeps


Very off topic, but thought I would address this...

For the iPod (and other related apple products) the chief design team included a guy called Tony Fadell, who is of Lebanese descent and Jonathan Ive, a British engineer.

So the iPods and Pads of the world are not a US invention and, in fact, Apple utilises existing technology in a lot of it's products (hardware wise) and only really develops innovative software, which is the iPod/Pad/Phones USP.

Most of the fancy hardware tech in iPhones and Pads is actually foreign and the bulk of chips found in most smartphones the world over are developed by British firm, ARM.

So, nationalist chest thumping aside, we can see you biggotted attitude to anything foreign or Muslim is based on little actual fact and more on sentiment. Remember, if it wasn't for the Arab's, we wouldn't have the concept of Zero, Algebra or advanced Mathematics meaning nothing computerised would exist without the work of their early scholars when most of Europe was basking in religious ignorance.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
If they just did a new type of perimeter mining, and put mines all around each ship they would be set.
The thing about the little boats of Iran is they have to get close, and in most instances right against the ship where they place a bomb or explode. They really wont have much of a chance. They are fast, but with planes, mining and the tech mentioned in this thread.. they can't do much.

Again, you and others are not thinking correctly on this matter. Yes, the US Navy is superior to the Iranians. The US knows it, China knows it and Iran knows it. They will not engage the USN conventionally unless absolutely necessary and are much more likely to emply adnaced versions of the same tactics we saw in the 1980's.

In 1986, a US Guided missile cruiser was crippled by a mine, leading to Operation Praying Mantis and many tankers were hit by missiles and mines. It is reasonable to assume they would do the same, but now they have some shiny new toys to do it with which any Navy, even the USN, would find it hard to deal with conclusively.

Remember, especially in today's world, the mere threat of something is usually enough to drive up prices and cause chaos. The Iranians only have to make everyone believe they have the Straights mined and possibly hit a tanker or two and that's it, the markets will go wild.

.

Originally posted by apodictic
reply to post by simples

 

Sadly, I have to agree with a lot of what you said.

As a Marine, I agree with you about our Army. In Afghanistan we would patrol, say, in a staggered column formation. No one would talk, we would all focus on the mission. We would see some Army guys on a patrol all walking down the middle of the freakin street talking and laughing. They get better gear than us, but we make due with what we have. We are more disciplined, get better training, and take combat seriously. Not to say there's not specific units in the Army who aren't damn fine soldiers, including the Rangers, but for the most part our Army doesn't know WTF they're doing. It's sad to see. Our government is recruiting the Army specifically for an increase in numbers. Their basic training is a joke. Their Drill Sergeants are barely allowed to even yell at them anymore. There's no way that can prep them for combat. I served along side some Royal Marines and they're great guys. Some of the funniest guys I've met and very professional.

As a whole, though, the United States shouldn't be messed with. We all see how willing the "higher ups" are to go to war. We all know the weapons we are capable of deploying, and the implications of what would happen if they were deployed. If we are attacked the US WILL use nuclear force.

We are a super power in the sense that no one really has the balls to mess with us. Rightly so.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. This is just jar head fist bumping. The Marine Corps as well as the Army has some stupid people in it. I've seen Nat. Guard troops with more discipline than most of the Marines I've ever met. Nor are they very professional, if they are so professional than why pray tell did they get kicked out of Afghanistan for the longest time?

Why are some of the worst war crimes in U.S history done by the united states Marine corps? I'm not saying the Army is any better, yet I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. The army gets better gear because its not a department of the navy. You don't need the gear, its not any ones fault that your being used out side of the original scope of your job. The Marine corps was never meant to be used as any thing more than to clear beaches.

The fact that the marines do as well as they do is astounding. Yet they are not any better or worse than the rest of the branches.

Also my father was a Marine, he also says that the Marine corps basic is a joke compared to when he went through it. It will just get easier as time goes on and the Corps lower its standards even more. Its going to happen weather people like it or not.

Would this be the same US Navy that has such advanced technology, such supreme training, that a diesel powered Chinese sub can just pop up in the middle of your little wargames without one person noticing?

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Maybe it's the same US Navy, that allowed an outdated Soviet bomber to unexpectedly buzz the USS Taylor, Oliver Hazard Perry class ship?

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Or it could be, the same US Navy, operating the latest types of equipment, with the best trained crew, who decided to raise their submarine directly under a boat full of Japanese school children, killing 9 people?

en.wikipedia.org...

I can't wait to watch the Iranians cane you.

And don't talk about the iPod as being a yank invented device...it was designed by a British man, and made in China.

I thought a few might be interested to see the video posted here

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Reaper2137


It isn't "jar head fist bumping." It's reality. You can tell me that when you're in a war zone and you see an Army patrol grouped together in the middle of the street not paying attention. One guy with an AK could have killed all of them. I'm not TRYING to make them sound bad, i'm telling you the facts. They're very immature most of the time also, and this is probably due to the lack of discipline they received during their recruit training. I'm not blaming them. Some of the "worst crimes" committed are by Marines because we are taught to kill and a majority of combat veterans come home with PTSD and find it extremely hard to deal with the comfortable civilian lifestyle. Everything we do, or learn, right down to the screaming during boot camp, is all geared towards prep for a combat scenario. Here's a little example for you.




You think little old Mrs. Jenkins is gonna be quietly mentoring you when you're under fire?

The fact of the matter is, the Army has lost its way with recruiting. I DID say some units in the Army are outstanding and on par with even Marines. Rangers especially. I have the utmost respect for them. But for your average every day Army grunt? Sorry, I disagree.

And of course your father would say that. EVERYONE says that when they get out of boot camp. There's always rumors that the class behind them has it easier than the last, or that they're "getting rid of the Reaper hike" or "changing the confidence course" guess what? It never happens. The only thing about boot camp that may be different now than when your father served is that they cant "legally" beat the # out of you. But they can "take you for a run" and you could "fall" when no one is around, if you get what I'm saying.


Edit to add: The Marines weren't kicked out, MARSOC was because of "supposed" civilian casualties. # happens in war. If you want me to tell you some horror stories about what the Army does in Iraq, I'll be glad to enlighten you. There are "rogue" units in any branch of the military, but all in all Marines have THE BEST basic recruit training in any branch of the military. It is a fact, not an opinion.

Originally posted by apodictic
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

It isn't "jar head fist bumping." It's reality. You can tell me that when you're in a war zone and you see an Army patrol grouped together in the middle of the street not paying attention. One guy with an AK could have killed all of them. I'm not TRYING to make them sound bad, i'm telling you the facts. They're very immature most of the time also, and this is probably due to the lack of discipline they received during their recruit training. I'm not blaming them. Some of the "worst crimes" committed are by Marines because we are taught to kill and a majority of combat veterans come home with PTSD and find it extremely hard to deal with the comfortable civilian lifestyle. Everything we do, or learn, right down to the screaming during boot camp, is all geared towards prep for a combat scenario. Here's a little example for you.

You think little old Mrs. Jenkins is gonna be quietly mentoring you when you're under fire?

The fact of the matter is, the Army has lost its way with recruiting. I DID say some units in the Army are outstanding and on par with even Marines. Rangers especially. I have the utmost respect for them. But for your average every day Army grunt? Sorry, I disagree.

And of course your father would say that. EVERYONE says that when they get out of boot camp. There's always rumors that the class behind them has it easier than the last, or that they're "getting rid of the Reaper hike" or "changing the confidence course" guess what? It never happens. The only thing about boot camp that may be different now than when your father served is that they cant "legally" beat the # out of you. But they can "take you for a run" and you could "fall" when no one is around, if you get what I'm saying.


Edit to add: The Marines weren't kicked out, MARSOC was because of "supposed" civilian casualties. # happens in war. If you want me to tell you some horror stories about what the Army does in Iraq, I'll be glad to enlighten you. There are "rogue" units in any branch of the military, but all in all Marines have THE BEST basic recruit training in any branch of the military. It is a fact, not an opinion.

edit on 2-1-2012 by apodictic because: (no reason given)

Its an opinion nothing more, your opinion not fact. The fact that you keep bringing up army units being undisciplined is rather telling, when I've seen marines act the same way. You guys are not that special, You guys did get kicked out of Afghanistan. There were no "supposed" civilian casualties, the pvt got killed and the marines lost their #. Its a result of their training I guess they are not trained to think or use common sense.

I've seen combat and as such, I've seen all branches act the fool, marines just as much if not more so than any one else. Because of the superiority complex, You also hear rumors about the marine corps being disbanded every year, and as much as I think it would be a good ideal its not going to happen. The marine corps has lost its way. Mainly being used out side of the operation scope.

The army is little better, They have their fair share of war crimes, last I checked tho your Avatar reeks of the marines, So quit acting the high and mighty, your # stinks just as bad if not worse than any other branch. I've seen my fair share of fist bumping fools who have died for their stupidedity just like any other branch. There a a video or two on the net of marines dieing because they bunched up, just as there are videos of army doing the same thing.

Do us all a favor come down from your high horse, realize that the marines are human and make mistakes and are no better than any one else, because if you are the norm I don't see a reason to see the marines clearing beaches and guarding embasys or beaches, you know your operation scope were you all belong.

reply to post by Reaper2137


You're whining about my opinion when all you're doing is giving your own.

Marines strike hard and fast, and then the Army can have our left overs and hold the position with their massive numbers. That's all it comes down to.

I'm just fine being up here on my "high horse" (pride of tradition) and being part of the most feared military force on the entire planet. Thanks for your input though. If Marines and the Army were any where near being similar, we wouldn't need to have separate branches, would we?

Carry on.

Edit to add: Embassy duty (along with recruiting) is a B billet secondary MOS. Not a permanent job, so I'd suggest keeping your ignorance to yourself, otherwise you're just made out to look like an even bigger fool. No wonder the President chooses to have Marines guard the white house.

Your jealousy is showing.

“The more Marines I have around, the better I like it!” – General Mark Clark, US Army

Ahem! Wrong! I believe the might of the US Navy has been around much longer than other modern "naval fleets".