Why the US Navy will be destroyed in Hormuz

Originally posted by Sailor Sam

Originally posted by dave_welch
don't know why everyone thinks we (the US) would ever use nukes as anything but a last ditch effort, and even then it's pretty doubtful, also, even if iran has nukes, i don't think they would be stupid enough to start a nuclear war with us. that's like trying to shoot a sniper with a .38 at 500 yards, while he's shooting at you.

You "conveniently" forget that the USA has used nukes twice in anger and is the only country to have ever done so.
Go read your history.

I have no idea why you are saying it was "in anger". Actually, that sounds very, very silly.

The US deployed the nukes after a lot of strategic analysis and concerted effort of many thousand people, and not because it threw some kind of a tantrum. It knew it had to end the war, and at least that was an excuse, and the opportunity to test the weapon in real conditions was quite unique. So yes, two nukes were used, that doesn't mean that someone is chomping at the bit to launch number 3.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
reply to post by pteridine

 

So, you are saying that the West will acquiesce to nuclear Iran?

That is not what I am saying at all. Iran is in the situaton it is in because it wants nuclear weapons. It was sanctioned for attempting to make them. It wants the sanctions lifted and wants a villain to threaten so it can appear to be the brave underdog. If it wins the staredown, the Great Satan bowed to the purveyors of Allah. If it loses the staredown, the Great Satan is even more evil and it is only because Iran is a peaceful nation that it didn't whip the Great Satan. Iran wins PR points and sympathy without doing anything other than talk. It also gets some attention, which it wants, to start building a case for a Caliphate. I'd bet Iran has plans for where the capital of the Caliphate might be located.

As to having nukes, given past performance of its leadership [see the post and link on using children to clear minefields] the world is uneasy at the thought. Theocrats think they hear what God says and act accordingly. Many believe that Theocrats don't hear well, at all, which makes for exciting moments even without nukes. Imagine a delusional, zealous leadership with a weapon that could start an end-of-the-world scenario. If that leadership were to feel unimportant, ignored, or put upon, or want to polarize their part of the world what would they do? What would that leadership do if it felt itself losing power? Would it start a war to rally the citizens? Would it use the nuke if it was losing the war? The world doesn't want to find out. If those clowns smoke Tel-Aviv, they had better stand by for the dark ages after some intense illumination. Check the range of the Jericho III missile and ask yourself if Israel would have Iranian cities programmed into their guidance systems.
Not permitting Iran and the like to own nukes is a good idea and the world knows it.

In the event of a "war" with Iran, nukes would hardly be needed. The US military is completely capable of leveling a good portion of Iran without the use of nukes.

Iran is going to keep poking, and poking, until they get the reaction that they want. Yes, I said want... They seemingly want the US and /or NATO to attack them. Then they can act the martyr, and say "oh, noes, look at the big bad bullies attacking us... oh, woe, is us..." or words to that effect.

It's a lose/lose situation for the US... No matter the outcome, we come across as the bully. Even though the other side of this stupidity is a wanna be bully themselves, and hardly a saint.

...and I'm getting just a bit tired of people trying to portray them as some poor innocent being bullied by the rest of the world...

...and by them, I am referring only to the govt. of Iran... The mullahs and their little puppet on a string Ahmadinejad. The people of Iran are, as is usually the case, innocent of any wrong doing for the most part.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Iran will eventually make a few small nukes with a yield of about 10 kiloton each.

They will use terrorists to smuggle them into Israel and set them off.

That sounds more like dirty bombs then military grade nukes.

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The war in Iraq stopped Saddam Hussein from shooting SCUDs at Israel.

The patriot defense system was capable of shooting down the scuds. There was no reason to get rid of saddam hussein as he was the perfect insurance policy for the middle east. Two dictators going at it leaves no time for either dictator to threaten israel or anyone else.

It also brought democracy to Iraq.

Not really. Sunnis and shiites have hated each other since islam was founded as a religion. It has left a big power vacuum and terrorism in the country has greatly increased. The only reason for the second invastion was to boost the military industrial complex that needs war and to sign new restructuring and oil contracts.

The payout was definitely not worth the risk imo!

Bigger is better? So says the USA, the basic fallacy that the science of war equates to the art of war. Oh how naive are we Americans. Did anyone remember Millennium Challenge 2002? Well Iran has built its naval arsenal on speedboats with missiles, and here is how it will be played out according to US war games simulation:



Good evening and hello. I have not posted in a long time so bare with me.

It seems to me that a carrier strike group would indeed be very vulnerable in those waters.Iran knows it's own waters pretty well, don;t you think. People around the world know how to hit us!!
Along those lines of vulnerability, maybe that carrier and its supporting ships could be that next pawns for the US to use as a catalyst for military action against Iran. seriously, we all read about it every other day lately how our sanctions are going to get tougher, how Israel is going to hit them with a pre-emtive strike and so on.
Myself. a firm believer in the 9/11 bullspit can see the powers that be sacrificing yet more American citizens(Navy this time) to sell the upcoming action against Iran to the American public whilst we rally about "avenging those lost" and so on and so on.

Just a thought.
SeeYa!!

For those of you slyly implying that TPTB might send a carrier group into the straits as part of a false flag attack, get a grip. Maybe this would've worked a few decades ago, but not in today's day and age. There is NO WAY a Navy captain is sailing his ships ANYWHERE where they won't immediately have the upper hand via manpower, technology, and quality intel. It just isn't happening.

As for Iran's chances against a carrier group; they MIGHT slide a missile or two through, but it would take an act of Allah to disable a ship, let alone sink one. This 10-year old, scripted, stacked-in-red's-favor computer game simulation means nothing to me. Sims are run to create scenarios that might not be foreseen, so that in real world scenarios, there's a baseline, some type of experience to use, even though I put my full trust and confidence on the skill and training of the United States Navy.

As for the authors replies to anyone with a contradictory opinion, his attitude is laughable, and downright disrespectful in some cases. I could make a thread called "Why China will invade through Canada" and base it from when my veteran brother beat me at Risk last night. It would be a fun thread to talk about, but when people have a different opinion, I'm not going to reply by saying "My brother was in the Navy, he was the commander of the Chinese. Unless you were at the game, your opinion means nothing." I'd at least respect those taking time post in my thread with some respectful replies instead of constantly insulting everyone.

Iran sinking a carrier. Still makes me chuckle. They can't even build a quality bridge over there or keep chickens off the streets. Haha

If the US Navy loses ships, submarines, or a carrier in the Straight of Hormuz...it was intended that it happen.

It will have been arranged to happen....scheduled/planned.

History will be repeating itself...because we did not learn from it.

We are Americans. We like many nations...perhaps more so acutely...lack good leadership. We often get into wars by being surprised..often at great expense...then get our backsides handed to us many times before we get rid of the cheap political appointees in leadership positions..sufficient to get real shooters put into the proper offices. Then when the conflicts are over...we put the hack political appointees back in office again and get rid of the shooters.....politics as usual.

We get to soon olde and to late smart.

Orangetom

reply to post by Gando702


It is not about what iran can or cannot do, it is about sacrificying americans to the luciferian brotherhood.

Pearl Harbor was let happen and admitted quietly afterwards. Gulf of Tonkin was an excuse to invade vietnam. 9-11 was an excuse to invade afghanistand and iraq. Now they are sending navel vessels close to iranian waters, if not inside iranians waters, just to entice them to strike.

The sanctions are utter BS!! They put sanctions against iraq...they failed. They are putting sanctions against syria...they are failing. Now sanctions against iran. The leaders could not give a monkeys turd what the UN says because they have chineese and russian backing. Who sold them the weapons? Who keeps downplaying iran as a threat?

The longer this bread and circus act continues the much higher possiblity iran WILL AQUIRE nukes and USE THEM in israel to bring about the apocalypse in the battle of armagedon, aka battle of megiddo, with muslims fighting the christians and jews in the PLANNED holy war. Supposedly only the jews are the chosen ones according to exodus from egypt in the old testament.

I understand what zionism is but the jews have been going about building israel completely the wrong way. They have become experts in prolonging their crisis and like to share their crisis with everyone else as though the world does not already have enough problems to deal with.

reply to post by orangetom1999


That is because the luciferian bankers have been controlling america for the last 150 years and they pay to promote their conspiracy over everyone else. You made a great post and I agree 1000%. People cannot learn from their mistakes because they are not allowed to. Misinformation is too great!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


The UK is sending in the HMS Daring (D32) to defend / attack as necessary around the
Strait of Hormuz.

HMS Daring

It has new and improved radars from Raytheon.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I like very much to read history. That is to say...when I can find decent history to read.

I am currently reading the new Tom Clancy Novel.." Locked On. " While Tom uses certain facets of history as does James Clavel..in his novels...Tom is what I call "Historical Fiction." Much like much of what passes for history in public schools. Clancy is nice reading but after awhile his books begin to read the same..the same pattern..the same fingerprint. If you look, read, and think carefully ..you can see the world religion in his books as well.

My read of history is that someone has been working since before the American Civil War to put us under the control of outside influences. To have us do their bidding and dirty work for them. And today it appears the descendants of these early subversive people want to come out in the open with their corruption. They no longer want to hide it.

We came into our own on this front with the Spanish American War and the Boxer Rebellion. Since that time we have carried out the wishes and desires of our controllers. We constantly get involved in foreign wars...but when the wars are over...we have few spoils for all our efforts.

The Dictum ...'To the Victors go the Spoils" does not seem to apply to us anymore. This means that we are fighting someone else's wars..for someone else's profit....for someone else's gain.

I have also concluded that only Americans can be this naturally stupid that they don't seem to be able to connect the dots to what is happening right in front of them. Only Americans can give away so much of their substance and finest blood and continue on..for this would have bankrupted most nations long ago. It may yet bankrupt ours soon...if not already. By this I mean spiritually as well as physically.

What we have been doing since the WW2 is fighting someone else's enemies...and then when the wars are over...rebuilding these nations at taxpayer expense..and bringing these nations into up to date facilities for someone else's profit. We did this with Germany, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, now Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the case of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan..it seems that these nations are scheduled to be put into storage. Their important and profitable facilities/resources are to be brought up to technological standards or current Technology..at taxpayer expense...and then stored until needed. In the olde days a Communist government was all that was needed since the Communists would guarantee that no competition would enter to take these already developed systems and the resources would mostly be kept off the market. The Communists are also to stupid to run anything at a profit...but they are useful to store and maintain as long as the technology comes from somewhere else. To keep and maintain a nation and it's resources off the market and competitors out. This is what happened in Vietnam after the oil was sufficiently developed and oil refineries built.

With the fall of Communism it appears that Radical Islam will serve the same function of keeping out competition and the resources off the marketplace. Hence the nation and resources go into storage until later...and thus market prices up...and supply controlled.

There is no shortage of oil in the world. The supply has been controlled and manipulated since WW1.

I do believe that in the future water will also be controlled thus. And so too will food.

In Luciferian/Occult terms this is called "The absolute Mastery of everything."

Or another manner of stating it is "The Restoration of the True Brotherhood."
"
I call it ...Bringing in the Kingdom of Ishmael and getting rid of the Kingdom of Issac.

To make the world all of Ishmaelites. To bring about "The Kingdom of the Bondwoman and her son."

I believe that on a plan we are scheduled to lose a carrier and part of a fleet in the middle east and then we will be powerless under current administrations to do anything about it. We must cede and the oil kept off the markets.

I suspected the oil was slated to stay off the market when we moved into Iraq. If we wanted the oil..nothing would have stopped us from getting it. But oil prices did the opposite and went to over $4.00 in many states and many states have not fully recovered. I believe this current downward trend will pass quickly when the election is over..and it will be high prices again..perhaps higher than we have ever known. Business as usual.

This world is not the product advertised and so too is political leadership of both dominant parties the product that is advertised.

I believe the Republican party is only "Democrat Lite." And for Occult/Luciferian reasons they have been, both political parties, working a Hegelian Dialectic on a very gullible public ..including the wars.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by boymonkey74

Originally posted by whywhynot
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

Two words, Persian Glass.


2nd

Wow your about the 10th person to say this....Do you really think if you nuke Iran the world will just shrug their shoulders and forget it? I really think if this happens you may as well build a wall around the USA because not one country will want to know you. Let alone what the Russians and Chinese would do.
Use nukes and you will be nuking yourselves.
It seems some of you really want it all to kick off. You forget that war is not fun it is bloody and horrid for everyone involved.

We don't need nukes to turn Iran into glass we have non nuclear bombs that are much much more powerful than the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima.



-Alien

Originally posted by Alien Abduct

We don't need nukes to turn Iran into glass we have non nuclear bombs that are much much more powerful than the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

Not hardly. The WW2 nukes were roughly 1,000 times as powerful as the big non-nukes. The difference in size and characteristics provides for some entirely different effects on the target.

who is going to detroy the US navy ? the iranians ?

the same iranians who couldn't rescue their own guys from somali pruates ?

Hi all
just checking in on the thread to see how the destroying of the US navy is goin,.
and last I checked,... we are still doing well,.. no destruction..
Hmm maybe the OP is wrong?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Right but that would have nothing to do with the Iranian Navy defeating American ships, that would simply be TPTB putting our Navy in a position where failure was inevitable.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by area6

 

It does equal 600,000 square miles of Iranian glass.

Do you have a war game scenario that can provide backup evidence for this statement?


All it takes is one boomer sub and 24 Trident Missiles.

Each Missile carries several MIRV warheads.

Trident Missile

MIRV warheads

W88 nuclear warhead

If they decide to toss SORT adherence there could be 8 warheads per missile,
and thus 192 warheads.

One sub could end what was known as Iran.

It doesn't need to be in the Persian gulf either.

I am hoping that the oil grab comes to an end and the citizens of
Iran get rid of their nut jobs just like we need to get rid of our nut jobs.

Unfortunately I think the nut jobs in both countries have any plans
of listening to the citizens.

Watch the film "hacking democracy" for an idea of what most countries
really are about.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


Please refer to this answer, even if the USA has nukes, using them would be hypocritcal for this reason:

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Originally posted by buni11687
reply to post by kawika

 

I predict there are new weapons that no one knows about. Some on our side, some on the Russians side, and even the Chinese claim to have some kind of new carrier killer missile. It may be possible to fire these weapons without exposing the responsible party. If the Rooskies send one sub with that special torpedo, and sink our carrier just to test it, how will we know who did it?

Ive heard about the Chinese anti-ship missile and have no doubt that Russia, and the US have similar, if not better, types of that missile. I doubt any of those nations would make their most advanced technology public, and I have no idea if Russia or China have given that same tech to Iran.

If a naval engagement broke out, I think the US subs would first demolish the Iranian frigates and destroyers (maybe even from hundreds of miles away). When it comes to the speedboats though, I dont know enough about sub tech to say they will be able to target each and every one of the speedboats, since they are fast and tiny.

edit on 31-12-2011 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)

For you all that don't know... I wouldn't be so cocky about what the US has versus another country. Granted I work for the Air Force, not the Navy, but I have a personal account of a highly used US system that is developed by a US company. I won't put the company out there, and security prevents me from further details about the system, but I can tell you that just recently (within the past 6 months) both the US and another country received an upgrade to a particular system.

The problem is that the other country received a better upgrade than what the US systems did. Quite honestly, they US upgrade is horrible and failed the Air Force certification test. The version of the upgrade purchased by the other country is a much cleaner design... almost as though it was produced by a different country when if fact it was not.

Just saying... don't think that we have the best of everything when clearly US companies don't have any type of allegiance to country. They only have allegiance to MONEY!

Even if Iran has anti-ship missile, the U.S Airforce would be able to take them out ahead of time. The daring is also around there I think.

Anyways are Tech is at least 40 years ahead of them, our soldiers and sailors are very trained. However I don't think anything will come off this even though the government partially the GOP has been salivating at the mouth for a chance to go to war with Iran I see nothing more going to come of this besides saber rattling, then a U.N meeting where everyone will bitch and whine. I also predict that the Prez of Iran to also somehow deny the holocaust during that meeting and say something anti-semitic. Obama will give a look that says "Why am Dealing with this sh*t" and I honestly wouldn't blame him for that.